I just realized what JRPGs need

[cmdrdredd]

The modern graphic hasn't made character's less likable. It was the inclusion of the cutscene that killed it. Being able to release games on larger media allowed developers to add hours of cutscenes to their games. The PS3 is a huge example. MGS4? Seriously? And SquareEnix is terrible about it as well. I think disc 2-3 of FF7 had maybe 40 minutes total gameplay on them. The rest was cutscenes.

So, while writing gets progressively worse in JRPGs, the cutscenes get longer and more frequent. At least most of the Japanese voice acting is tip top. I guess having a pop culture based around voice actors makes good ones easier to find.

To be fair here the game play offered in MGS4 was very enjoyable and varied. Also challenging without being punishing. I guess most newer console games have a large focus on story (outside of shooters) so they have more cut scenes in them to tell the story.

What JRPGs lack most is open ended game play. They offer a world that is very one dimensional. You move from point A to point B and might get a few random encounters with a very random enemy. After that, you continue traveling to point B again until you get a scene or a boss and it's time for point C and you repeat. There is usually very little free roaming of an open world. The western styled RPGs offer more freedom for the player. You get to move around an open world and do things out of order. Usually your choices in the game, whether you kill someone or allow them to live, will affect something later in the game or alter a quest line in some way. This is much preferred to many gamers including myself. Also, most times you get to customize your character and how he or she looks to the world. Instead of being stuck with the classic spiky hair emo teenager so common to JRPGs of the past few years, specifically those from Square Enix.

 

[smackababy]

There was no reason for MGS4 to have so many cut scenes. And the game play itself was lacking. And to be honest the game had gone downhill since Metal Gear: Solid.

The problem with JRPGs now can be linked directly with bad writing. None of the characters are emotional connecting to the player unless said play is some emo 12 year olod. Since the average age of gamers has steadily risen, the majority of them don't associate with JRPGs.

The fact that they are linear doesn't bother me. In fact, I'd rather one very well written path than 15 poorly written ones. Maybe I just grew up reading books and want games to emulate them to the point of giving me nothing to complain about.

There aren't a lot of games made post 2000 I can say I love.

BTW, Square Enix jumped the shark a long time ago. FF6 was the last thing good to come out of that camp. Kingdom Hearts? ... Don't even get me started on that horrid butchering of all things I found fond about Disney and my childhood.

 

[cmdrdredd]

There was no reason for MGS4 to have so many cut scenes. And the game play itself was lacking. And to be honest the game had gone downhill since Metal Gear: Solid.

The problem with JRPGs now can be linked directly with bad writing. None of the characters are emotional connecting to the player unless said play is some emo 12 year olod. Since the average age of gamers has steadily risen, the majority of them don't associate with JRPGs.

The fact that they are linear doesn't bother me. In fact, I'd rather one very well written path than 15 poorly written ones. Maybe I just grew up reading books and want games to emulate them to the point of giving me nothing to complain about.

There aren't a lot of games made post 2000 I can say I love.

BTW, Square Enix jumped the shark a long time ago. FF6 was the last thing good to come out of that camp. Kingdom Hearts? ... Don't even get me started on that horrid butchering of all things I found fond about Disney and my childhood.

That's your opinion which is fine. However, the story of MGS was the main focus of the game. Obviously you must understand this fqact in order to understand why the cut scenes were so long and numerous.

As for JRPGs and being linear, I think that's the main problem. They don't give you anything to do. You're stuck going one way. In games like Oblivion I can travel to almost any location at any time and explore any dungeon for treasure and items at any time. Also the monsters scale to your level so you never find yourself in a spot where you cannot leave or go back and have to fight an impossible battle that you will never win without a code for infinite health. The times this has happened in a game is rare though. I guess the whole point is that many gamers in North America are sick of the same old save the world stories that follow a set path. They play a game to immerse themselves in the world. Games like Grand Theft Auto, while not being an RPG, offer the gamer more opportunity for mindless "pick it up and play for a while" fun than most games do. I also think many gamers might want to play a game for a shorter timeframe than most JRPGs demand you play. Many open world games are more casual in nature as well, sure they take a while to complete but they don't demand you sit through long winded cut scenes for story elements. They might want to play for an hour and explore a new area, then turn it off.

 

[EvilComputer92]

That's your opinion which is fine. However, the story of MGS was the main focus of the game. Obviously you must understand this fact in order to understand why the cut scenes were so long and numerous.

As for JRPGs and being linear, I think that's the main problem. They don't give you anything to do. You're stuck going one way. In games like Oblivion I can travel to almost any location at any time and explore any dungeon for treasure and items at any time. Also the monsters scale to your level so you never find yourself in a spot where you cannot leave or go back and have to fight an impossible battle that you will never win without a code for infinite health. The times this has happened in a game is rare though. I guess the whole point is that many gamers in North America are sick of the same old save the world stories that follow a set path. They play a game to immerse themselves in the world. Games like Grand Theft Auto, while not being an RPG, offer the gamer more opportunity for mindless "pick it up and play for a while" fun than most games do. I also think many gamers might want to play a game for a shorter timeframe than most JRPGs demand you play. Many open world games are more casual in nature as well, sure they take a while to complete but they don't demand you sit through long winded cut scenes for story elements. They might want to play for an hour and explore a new area, then turn it off.

Dragon Age fits the cliche of saving the world, and its pretty linear. It's still selling very well in North America and Europe. Dragon Age is almost 60 hours in length, so gamers are willing to invest time in a game if the rewards are good.

Its a simple fact that the characters and writing have become stunted in JRPGs, while Western RPGs have continued to slowly evolve. Just compare the writing quality of Dragon Age or Mass Effect to most FF games. I mean cliches are fine up to a point, but when you have three spiky haired teenagers in three different FF games, then you know theres a problem.

 

[TecHNooB]

Kingdom Hearts? ... Don't even get me started on that horrid butchering of all things I found fond about Disney and my childhood.

I LOVED Kingdom Hearts 1. KH2? Not so much.

 

[smackababy]

That's your opinion which is fine. However, the story of MGS was the main focus of the game. Obviously you must understand this fqact in order to understand why the cut scenes were so long and numerous.

As for JRPGs and being linear, I think that's the main problem. They don't give you anything to do. You're stuck going one way. In games like Oblivion I can travel to almost any location at any time and explore any dungeon for treasure and items at any time. Also the monsters scale to your level so you never find yourself in a spot where you cannot leave or go back and have to fight an impossible battle that you will never win without a code for infinite health. The times this has happened in a game is rare though. I guess the whole point is that many gamers in North America are sick of the same old save the world stories that follow a set path. They play a game to immerse themselves in the world. Games like Grand Theft Auto, while not being an RPG, offer the gamer more opportunity for mindless "pick it up and play for a while" fun than most games do. I also think many gamers might want to play a game for a shorter timeframe than most JRPGs demand you play. Many open world games are more casual in nature as well, sure they take a while to complete but they don't demand you sit through long winded cut scenes for story elements. They might want to play for an hour and explore a new area, then turn it off.

The thing is with western RPGS like Oblivion the story is so under developed it is sickening. Give me one amazing, linear story over 15 different ones all lacking in writing. The real problem with JRPGs is that there are no good writers writing them anymore.

Square Enix knows every game they slap Final Fantasy on will sell. That stunts all growth in an industry.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Dragon Age fits the cliche of saving the world, and its pretty linear. It's still selling very well in North America and Europe. Dragon Age is almost 60 hours in length, so gamers are willing to invest time in a game if the rewards are good.

Its a simple fact that the characters and writing have become stunted in JRPGs, while Western RPGs have continued to slowly evolve. Just compare the writing quality of Dragon Age or Mass Effect to most FF games. I mean cliches are fine up to a point, but when you have three spiky haired teenagers in three different FF games, then you know theres a problem.

Actually in Dragon Age you have multiple endings, you can kill the queen, put yourself in as queen, put your friend to death, etc. Final Fantasy has one set ending that cannot ever change no matter what you do. There are also zero dialog options for you.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The thing is with western RPGS like Oblivion the story is so under developed it is sickening. Give me one amazing, linear story over 15 different ones all lacking in writing. The real problem with JRPGs is that there are no good writers writing them anymore.

Square Enix knows every game they slap Final Fantasy on will sell. That stunts all growth in an industry.

The idea is not to focus on story, but the game play and sidequests. That is the difference I just pointed out to you before.

 

[mav451]

Ugh, at least reduce the text size on spoilers man. Now I wasn't gonna play DA anyway, but I figure someone else might.

 

[smackababy]

The idea is not to focus on story, but the game play and sidequests. That is the difference I just pointed out to you before.

In a JRPG the game play is turn based combat and walking... You can't focus on game play. Story is key, and they are quite lacking in that department. Lost Odyssey had some good writing, and even Uematsu doing the music. That was probably one of the best JRPGs made in the past 10 years.

 

[FeathersMcGraw]

Lost Odyssey had some good writing, and even Uematsu doing the music. That was probably one of the best JRPGs made in the past 10 years.

I'll certainly agree with the writing in the assorted memories unlocked by the characters. But the main storyline and the paper-thin villain? Yikes, I liked the much-maligned FFX plot better.

 

[smackababy]

The main story wasn't terrible, but wasn't nearly as good as the back story. They hired a Japanese writer, Kiyoshi Shigematsu, to write the background. Apparently, he is an award winning writer, which would explain why they were so good.

 

[Xellos2099]

To be fair here the game play offered in MGS4 was very enjoyable and varied. Also challenging without being punishing. I guess most newer console games have a large focus on story (outside of shooters) so they have more cut scenes in them to tell the story.

What JRPGs lack most is open ended game play. They offer a world that is very one dimensional. You move from point A to point B and might get a few random encounters with a very random enemy. After that, you continue traveling to point B again until you get a scene or a boss and it's time for point C and you repeat. There is usually very little free roaming of an open world. The western styled RPGs offer more freedom for the player. You get to move around an open world and do things out of order. Usually your choices in the game, whether you kill someone or allow them to live, will affect something later in the game or alter a quest line in some way. This is much preferred to many gamers including myself. Also, most times you get to customize your character and how he or she looks to the world. Instead of being stuck with the classic spiky hair emo teenager so common to JRPGs of the past few years, specifically those from Square Enix.

WRPG have TOO MUCH freedom in my opinion. It was never clear on what you are suppose to do next and where to go most of the time.

 

[OptimumSlinky]

Some people prefer linear adventures, some massive open-world adventures. It doesn't have to be one way or the other. That's the beauty of freedom of choice.

I posted about my thoughts on FF before but I feel they apply to the JRPG genre as a whole. I wrote:

"The graphics and design is always breathtaking, but I just couldn't deal with the childish scripts and playing as yet another androgynous character with spiky hair and a ridiculous name who is afraid of sex and/or women (I know I'm making generalizations, but seriously). And then they brought in actual voice-acting, which made it worse for me because now I had to listen to garbage dialogue delivered by terrible actors."

Knights of the Old Republic really killed the JPRG appeal to me. The story was deep, well-plotted, and mature. There was spectacle. It was linear enough that I never got lost, but still allowed me to affect the flow of the game through my decisions. Mass Effect was a terrific game as well, but the story never hit the same peak as the original KOTOR.

I think a lot of it has to do with translation between languages and culture. KOTOR and ME were written in English, for Western gamers. I think part of the issue is that Japanese storytelling is inherently different from our own, but I think the language barrier is probably what makes all of the scripting and dialogue come across as so childish and cliche.