In the first place. of course, absolute power doesn't exist but let's just leave that aside. This issue I just saw is that power is a coin side of fear. We want control because we are afraid of the random reality of our fate, that we have no real control at all. So the lust for power is actually the presence of fear, and we create what we fear. The desire for power and the abuse of power will happen because the folk who seek it are mentally ill. Absolute power corrupts because those who seek it have already been corrupted. That is why Hobbits can carry the ring. They have no ego.
I just realized that absolute power doesn't corrupt.
- Thread starter Moonbeam
- Start date
Matt1970
Lifer
- Mar 19, 2007
- 12,320
- 3
- 0
Oh ya the world is just full of dictators and rulers that do nothing but what is best for their people. They make sure before they build mulit-million dollar mansions that all the people in their country are clothed, fed, have safe drinking water and are safe. We hear about it all the time....
DominionSeraph
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2009
- 8,386
- 32
- 91
Man's base nature is corrupt -- completely self-centered. We learn to be nice when selfish acts collide -- we learn that we are not the center of the universe when someone else keeps a boon for themselves. Their power to withhold what we want means we have to manipulate people into not withholding in order to get what we want. As we can withhold, we have something to bargain with. We eventually come to an idea of fairness -- equitable trade -- and thus a social contract is made.
With absolute power you can dismantle this, as your power renders the objections of others meaningless. If there are no negative repercussions for acting self-centered, being nice is nothing but a waste of time and energy.
Now, as you said, absolute power doesn't exist, so there's always someone it's in your interest to cater to to some degree, but the hierarchy can be pretty steep so you may not have to cater to those they cater to.
With absolute power you can dismantle this, as your power renders the objections of others meaningless. If there are no negative repercussions for acting self-centered, being nice is nothing but a waste of time and energy.
Now, as you said, absolute power doesn't exist, so there's always someone it's in your interest to cater to to some degree, but the hierarchy can be pretty steep so you may not have to cater to those they cater to.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
You really need to read Tolkein again because you apparently didn't comprehend it at all. It wasn't that any Hobbit could carry the ring. Frodo was chosen to carry the ring; not specifically because he was a Hobbit but because he was Frodo, who happened to be a Hobbit.
How does one determine the degree of relationship between who one is and what one is?
Atreus21
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2007
- 12,001
- 571
- 126
Well, when hobbits arrive we can try elevating them to absolute power and see what happens.
In the meantime, human nature trumps even the most disciplined.
Pr0d1gy
Diamond Member
- Jan 30, 2005
- 7,774
- 0
- 76
Not sure where the Hobbit thing really applied to this, but I have noticed the truth behind the statement I quoted and it is VERY noticeable.
Londo_Jowo
Lifer
Maybe the ring loved the world and wanted to be destroyed???
In War we have seen quite often how one man will risk his life to save his comrades. When faced with evil, man is capable of great acts of selflessness. Kind of like that hero that jumped out of a helocopter into the east river near washington DC, to save drowning people. People often raise to the challenge in times of great need.
In War we have seen quite often how one man will risk his life to save his comrades. When faced with evil, man is capable of great acts of selflessness. Kind of like that hero that jumped out of a helocopter into the east river near washington DC, to save drowning people. People often raise to the challenge in times of great need.
Last edited:
SlitheryDee
Lifer
- Feb 2, 2005
- 17,252
- 19
- 81
Yeah. I don't see how its avoidable though. We want to live comfortably and safely in a world that is largely neither comfortable or safe without being changed to suit us. Exerting control. over our environment is one of our greatest assets. Without leadership much of what we have would not possible simply because a bunch of anarchists would never organize well enough to do it. It easy to take the world we live in for granted. Don't assume you can stay in the treetops without the trunk to support you, regardless of how ugly you think that trunk is. Its the very thing that has lifted you far enough above poverty to have enough spare time to grow to despise it.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Should one try to make such a determination? It seems to me that's how prejudice is born.
blankslate
Diamond Member
- Jun 16, 2008
- 8,794
- 568
- 126
Or has someone else has stated
You don't necessarily have to be mentally ill to pursue it but it probably helps quite a bit.
You don't necessarily have to be mentally ill to pursue it but it probably helps quite a bit.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
The degree power corrupts is proportional to the amount of control involved and inversely proportional to the disinterest in having ones will forced on others. Frodo withstood as long as he did because the Ring was thrust upon him, not to use, but to safeguard from use. He himself wanted no part of it or what it could do. In fact he despised it, and therefore did what greater beings could not.
Seems to me it's how it's prevented. I just asked how you did it here. You said he was chosen not as a Hobbit but for who he was. Somebody did it according to you so I just wonder how.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
The short answer is that he had the wisdom to see that both good and evil are a duality we possess, and that good is the better of the two. Giving aid to the dark side we all must come to terms with in the form of ego speaking justifications of tyranny for the greater good was an evil itself. That was why Gandalf refused it, because he would be corrupted in his despite to do good. Frodo's sense of self was that of someone small and with no great purpose. That meekness was his strength.
Something from Lincoln to consider:
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
No one was unable to control the power of the ring. Frodo was unable to let go of the power- it had to be taken from him by force.
If we were to merge the actual story of LOTR and the OP's original point, then we could come up with the conclusion that all are ultimately corruptible no matter who they are. That is, only if you take Frodo to be the epitome of restraint and humility as far as it is possible for humanoids. That stated, we could also suggest that mental illness, if it is actually a piece of the "corruptible by power" puzzle, is something that we all suffer from to a degree. Mental illness is something that is suggested to be on a sliding scale rather than "all or nothing," so this would fit.
I believe in equal opportunity when it comes to corruption
If we were to merge the actual story of LOTR and the OP's original point, then we could come up with the conclusion that all are ultimately corruptible no matter who they are. That is, only if you take Frodo to be the epitome of restraint and humility as far as it is possible for humanoids. That stated, we could also suggest that mental illness, if it is actually a piece of the "corruptible by power" puzzle, is something that we all suffer from to a degree. Mental illness is something that is suggested to be on a sliding scale rather than "all or nothing," so this would fit.
I believe in equal opportunity when it comes to corruption
Yes, I know but you said, "You really need to read Tolkein again because you apparently didn't comprehend it at all. It wasn't that any Hobbit could carry the ring. Frodo was chosen to carry the ring; not specifically because he was a Hobbit but because he was Frodo, who happened to be a Hobbit."
Naturally, when you said I didn't comprehend why Frodo was chosen that maybe you did.
No one was unable to control the power of the ring. Frodo was unable to let go of the power- it had to be taken from him by force.
If we were to merge the actual story of LOTR and the OP's original point, then we could come up with the conclusion that all are ultimately corruptible no matter who they are. That is, only if you take Frodo to be the epitome of restraint and humility as far as it is possible for humanoids. That stated, we could also suggest that mental illness, if it is actually a piece of the "corruptible by power" puzzle, is something that we all suffer from to a degree. Mental illness is something that is suggested to be on a sliding scale rather than "all or nothing," so this would fit.
I believe in equal opportunity when it comes to corruption
Yes, this is what I believe is how the story went, that Frodo couldn't let go by his own will and needed help. This, I believe, is the Christian view of things, and one with which I Partially disagree. The religious view is that man is sinful and in need of redemption and that we carry original sin to make this notion appear to make sense. This is a very deep philosophical issue, but I believe we were all born perfect. Thus I believe our natural state is to have no interest in the ring and that is a state which we can return to. I believe that belief in the absolute power of power to corrupt is pessimism and surrender to self hate.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 361
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
Facebook
Twitter