OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
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waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
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kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
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Incorrect punctuation aside, "samurai" is already plural.
*Alpa Chino*
"You wouldn't say Chineses!"
Idk schneiderguy, I think the presence of testicles and lack of vagina is a pretty big difference, but I shall defer to your professional opinion, naturally.
MontyAC
Diamond Member
- Feb 28, 2004
- 4,112
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- 81
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 30,509
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Let me guess, you're Greek or have Greek ancestry?
Settle down dude, you might want to get your history in order before trying to educate others (or telling them to get educated). For such a foray into ancient culture, it's rather telling that you make no mention whatsoever of the warriors of Thebes, who outnumbered the Spartans at Thermopylae in the stand against the Persians.
Last time I checked Thebes was in Greece, and the Sacred band wasn't comprised of teachers and pupils, if you know what I mean. Supposedly what made them so fierce was they didn't want to be disgraced in battle in front of their lovers. Sounds like homo relationships weren't as unheard of as you submit, sorry.
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 30,509
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Is knowing the basics about what you are speaking of really that little of a deal to you?
Sorry for trying to help you not sound like an idiot in the future, not sure what I was thinking...
MontyAC
Diamond Member
- Feb 28, 2004
- 4,112
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Both the Greeks and later the Romans were big on male pedophilia late in their societies. That gets overlooked of course when early western civilization is extolled in primary and sometimes even in higher education.
We do owe a lot to the Greeks, but we should be thankful we don't emulate all aspects of their ancient culture.
We do owe a lot to the Greeks, but we should be thankful we don't emulate all aspects of their ancient culture.
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kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 30,509
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Yeah, you see the first entry where "samurai" is designated as plural?
No idea why they would also have an entry for "samurais." Never seen it in any of my texts, or heard it used by other Americans or Japanese speaking English. In fact, I recall my Japanese professor in college going out of her way to correct some of her students who added "s" to the end of already plural Romanji.
To use Tropic Thunder again, would you also refer to the Viet Cong as Viet Congs?
Whatever, if you want to add S onto the end of something already plural, and don't think it sounds stupid, hey free world. Mea culpa.
To get back on topic though, you are correct in citing the samurai in reference to pederasty. Although from what I've read and been told it was a little bit different in feudal Japan in that there wasn't a point where it stopped due to one of them getting older. A sexual relationship between two warriors was seen as "more pure" than having one with a female (?????)
It didn't die out right away either! The crazy Yukio Mishima back in the 70s, after being snubbed by the crowds who heard his speech, went and committed seppuku (he thought of himself as samurai) and it was his Lt. and lover that ended it for him.
Anyway, I'm going to sum up this thread with YUCK.
Destiny
Platinum Member
- Jul 6, 2010
- 2,270
- 1
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Yep... it was much more common and crazy for warriors in the Roman/Greek army = knowingly they may not live long due to an upcoming battle so they want to make love one last time.
Yep... I used to wonder why some of that stuff, young looking characters and hemaphrodites where in Japanese Anime - until I found out about pederasty. D:
Most of this stuff is not taught in high school text books obviously - but we talked about it in college... its also on the history channel but I forgot which show...
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MontyAC
Diamond Member
- Feb 28, 2004
- 4,112
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Our modern code of morals and ethics doesn't jive with the ancient code of morals and ethics? Somebody call the President!
Sounds like it's time for some Greek jokes!
Do you know the motto of the Greek army?
Never leave your buddies' behind!
Why did the little Greek boy run away from home?
He didn't like the way his parents were rearing him!
In Greece, how do you separate the men from the boys?
With a crowbar!
Do you know the motto of the Greek army?
Never leave your buddies' behind!
Why did the little Greek boy run away from home?
He didn't like the way his parents were rearing him!
In Greece, how do you separate the men from the boys?
With a crowbar!
I abhor the thought of a 25 year old and a 15 year old. But the fact is, that is relatively new to our modern society. People were expected to be far more mature than they are now. The whole 'teenage' thing is a modern culture, IMO. Whether right or wrong, boys and girls physically ready for sexual content long before they reach legal adult hood.
Now, if you step back and think about it:
Boys and girls normally start puberty around 12ish - This is an average and proably takes a year or two. This puts them at 14. However, they have 4 years before they are an adult and can make their own choice in regards to what they do with their bodies. This creates a problem. Teen pregnencies... While they are down a bit, that merely because of birth control, not because the are not sexually active.
Regardless, the society we have setup now doesn't expect much of kids and therefore they mature at a slower rate. I won't say this is right or wrong, it is just how it is. The body matures before the legal age of consent.
Still, since I grew up in modern society, I find it utterly repulsive.
Now, if you step back and think about it:
Boys and girls normally start puberty around 12ish - This is an average and proably takes a year or two. This puts them at 14. However, they have 4 years before they are an adult and can make their own choice in regards to what they do with their bodies. This creates a problem. Teen pregnencies... While they are down a bit, that merely because of birth control, not because the are not sexually active.
Regardless, the society we have setup now doesn't expect much of kids and therefore they mature at a slower rate. I won't say this is right or wrong, it is just how it is. The body matures before the legal age of consent.
Still, since I grew up in modern society, I find it utterly repulsive.
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AstroManLuca
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2004
- 15,628
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moonbogg
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2011
- 10,731
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I would not take Socrates as a history lesson in ancient sexuality. I could easily see him played by Roger the Alien in the TV movie.
Actually, there is some truth to this from what I've read. I remember this letter from an Athenian living in Sparta about how crazy backwards it is you cannot sleep with your own kids. And you can't have sex with your brother's kids either, just insane.
We definitely are more morally aligned with the Spartans.
Actually, there is some truth to this from what I've read. I remember this letter from an Athenian living in Sparta about how crazy backwards it is you cannot sleep with your own kids. And you can't have sex with your brother's kids either, just insane.
We definitely are more morally aligned with the Spartans.
Actually... no.
Your, and admittedly my own feelings toward the Greeks and any "ancient" society is ultimately based on our own morals and ethics that we derive from our time. While you find boy-butt-humping to be disgusting, they would likely find your lack of boy-butt-humping to be immoral and disgusting.
It's relative, homeboy. Interpreting another's culture with the rules of our own is an unfair and empty comparison void of any real substantial insight. It's like saying "that's wrong because it's different." You can't really pin down how or why it's wrong other than the way you feel about it based on the laws the govern your own society.
This isn't to say that they did things the right way but rather just a different way. Right or wrong will always depend on the era and the context. You can't say it's definitely wrong. You can certainly state that it's not right in today's era but it was certainly alright for them otherwise it wouldn't have been so accepted and noted in historical documents.
Ahhh, but that was MY opinion. I will believe what I will and I am very glad we don't do that. You are free to believe what you want.
I don't think you understood what I just said but oddly enough proved it nevertheless.
Ironing.
I totally understand - it didn't prove anything. I told you that the post you replied to of mine was me stating my opinion. You were trying to tell me my opinion was not valid. That is what I was addressing. Whether the content of your post is accurate or not, doesn't change the fact you just tried to infringe on my opinion. But, hey, I'll get over it!
I think you can understand why I thought your post was a generalized statement. Even if we emulated all aspects of their ancient culture we wouldn't consider these "wrong" aspects to be "wrong." That's sort of how culture works... wrong would be NOT doing them.
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