I just don't understand the GOP

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Going by what I read on this forum, the GOP is trying to replace Willie Horton with Juan the illegal alien.

I think it's trickier than that. Blacks vote 90%+ Democratic, to Republicans can write them off in policy and marketing - their only constraint is not angering whites who oppose racism.

Hispanics on the other hand vote closer to 50-50 and are an important growing group important to the GOP's success, so expect the GOP to be more careful.

One note: The Hispanics who can vote - who are here legally - are not crazy about the illegals, either, making it a safer topic for them. But expect some caution.

I'd watch for them to look for or create a wedge issue for Hispanics, to hype.

Notice how the evangelical vote many decades ago was more b-partisan, but for years now, it's all about gays and abortion, and suddenly the part about 'help the poor' is silent?

That's because Republicans can't win on their 'help the poor' policies, but they can win with evangelicals on gays and abortion, and so they hype hype hype those issues.

And you see many evangelicals vote on the issues they hear about - gays and abortion - and don't vote on the 'help the poor' issue.

They've done it for decades on Cuba - screw Cuba, screw what makes sense, just give the Cuban-Americans, who vote, what they want.

I don't know what the issue(s) will be yet, but have no doubt they're doing intensive market research and focus group testing to look for one or more, and have been.

The question then is a power of the marketing muscle - can they get Hispanics to pay most attention to the issues Republicans want them to, the equivalent of ignoring 'help the poor'?

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Republicans have owned the whitehouse 20 of the past 30 years. Because they have lost 2 major elections in the past 2 years I don't see how the whole party is falling apart. They will regroup and win again. It will likely start in 2 years from now as people get sick of what Obama and President Pelosi are doing.

I'm not sure how what Obama and Pelosi are doing is different from what Bush and Reagan did, spend money we don't have. The only difference is Reagan and Bush spent on defense while Obama is spending it on social care.

And earmarks.

 

[microbial]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Republicans have owned the whitehouse 20 of the past 30 years. Because they have lost 2 major elections in the past 2 years I don't see how the whole party is falling apart. They will regroup and win again. It will likely start in 2 years from now as people get sick of what Obama and President Pelosi are doing.

I wish I were being glib, but in all seriousness and to state the obvious, those 20 years are a great part of the story why our great country has been going to hell.

That is not to say that the democrats aren't also culpable. Their role has been secondary though, acting as co-conspirators and acquiesce-ers extraordinaire.

 

[Moonbeam]

When whites were a large majority the Republican Party made a bet they could gain power by playing off whites fear they would lose dominance. But that reality has been bridged as fewer and fewer any longer fear the inevitable. People are people Americans are Americans regardless of color. Now the Republican Party has been reduced to a minority of die hare gun and Bible clinging imbeciles.

Love and tolerance, understanding and light can now be seen at the end of the tunnel. A mighty wave is coming.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
When whites were a large majority the Republican Party made a bet they could gain power by playing off whites fear they would lose dominance. But that reality has been bridged as fewer and fewer any longer fear the inevitable. People are people Americans are Americans regardless of color. Now the Republican Party has been reduced to a minority of die hare gun and Bible clinging imbeciles.

Love and tolerance, understanding and light can now be seen at the end of the tunnel. A mighty wave is coming.

Love and tolerance is expensive, so give your belongings to your new god, the US government.

 

[polarmystery]

Topic Title: "I just don't understand the GOP"

Answer: Nobody does.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: polarmystery
Topic Title: "I just don't understand the GOP"

Answer: Nobody does.

I think I largely do. It's a composite of groups I've written long posts describing, that I won't spend the next hour re-writing in this post, though.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Republicans have owned the whitehouse 20 of the past 30 years. Because they have lost 2 major elections in the past 2 years I don't see how the whole party is falling apart. They will regroup and win again. It will likely start in 2 years from now as people get sick of what Obama and President Pelosi are doing.

Good luck with that theory... 2 years from now the economy will be one the rebound and the reps that fought Obama tooth and nail will look even further out of touch than they did for the past 2 elections.

The reps have a major problem in that their "base" is far too socially right than the majority of the country. The rest of us think they are all kooks. That will only get worse as the world becomes more socially liberal.... The "base" gets more and more alienated. Someday, they wont even have a foothold in rural regions... And the country can finally move onward.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Clinton lost control of Congress because he raised taxes and made a half assed move to support minority rights, homosexuals. Then he lost the executive branch because he lied about an affair and was impeached by the Congressional Republicans. The GOP are hoping Mr Obama and the Democrats will implode in a similar manner.

...and Republicans lost control of Congress, and now the Presidency, because they became advocates of the very big government fiscal conservatism should prevent...look at the patterns...incompetence or abuse by one party always leads to the rise of the other.

That changed with Reagan, unfortunately, the great 'Wizard of Oz' who got a blank check, and cashed it for far more than was in the bank.

Isn't that what the Democrats are doing now? Spending their way to prosperity? Just shift the recipient from defense to social programs.

That's how many of them think - Democrats 'buy' the black vote with welfare bribes. They trivialize and minimize race issues as nothing more than corruption, to avoid the truth.

...and many liberals attempt to frame every discussion about social programs around race. Many fiscal conservatives do not want the federal government to become a wealth distribution and entitlements machine. Perhaps liberals should ask themselves why decades of social programs directed at helping low income minority communities only serve to perpetuate the cycle rather than alleviate it...race is certainly at play, but it is not the only dynamic, but we aren't allowed to talk about that.

I think I largely do. It's a composite of groups I've written long posts describing, that I won't spend the next hour re-writing in this post, though.

Your perception is largely based on stereotypes of what you think conservatives stand for. All political ideologies splinter into a composite of groups, but you tend to fixate on the extremes.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: polarmystery
Topic Title: "I just don't understand the GOP"

Answer: Nobody does.

I think I largely do. It's a composite of groups I've written long posts describing, that I won't spend the next hour re-writing in this post, though.

:laugh: You, Michael Moore, and Hugo Chavez really have a deep understanding of the right wing :laugh:

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: polarmystery
Topic Title: "I just don't understand the GOP"

Answer: Nobody does.

I think I largely do. It's a composite of groups I've written long posts describing, that I won't spend the next hour re-writing in this post, though.

:laugh: You, Michael Moore, and Hugo Chavez really have a deep understanding of the right wing :laugh:

So... Enlighten us... How is the right going to recover?

For the most part, the old tried and true republican fiscal values are sound. Low taxes, business friendly, small govt, and govt staying out of private lives. - Love it so far (obviously GWB did damage to those concepts).

The reps issue is the social values. The country and the world is becoming increasingly liberal on the social issues. The republican base has a problem with Gay marriage, abortion, religion is schools, etc. etc. They need to get back to small govt, and govt, out of people private lives - but the base is against it.

How do they solve that and regain power?

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: MotF Bane

"Michael Steele has just walked away from the Reaganesque position of strong moral clarity on abortion to personify why the Republican Party continues to be in a 'free fall',?

The free fall is because of things like the so-called "moral" position on abortion. They're completely out of touch with reality.

Reality:49% of Americans think abortion should be legal 'always' or 'most of the time'.
47% think it should be illegal with a few exceptions or illegal without exceptions.

Seems like we are split right down the middle.

Oh... and before you jump up and down about the Republicans stance on abortion rights please remember that BOTH Bill Clinton and Al Gore were pro-life before they decided to run for national office. Both parties are pretty tight on their abortion views and anyone with a different view does not get any where national. (Harry Reid being the only exception that I know of.)

But Clinton?

 

[HomerJS]

The GOP consistently barks on things like "faimily values", abstinence only education". Problem is their personal lives don't match the rhetoric. More and more people are getting a clue.

Look what it did for Bristol Palin and the Bush twins.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

...and Republicans lost control of Congress, and now the Presidency, because they became advocates of the very big government fiscal conservatism should prevent...look at the patterns...incompetence or abuse by one party always leads to the rise of the other.

when have conservatives ever practiced small government? Hoover?

 

[Starbuck1975]

when have conservatives ever practiced small government? Hoover?

Republicans practice small government when they are not the party in power...honestly, I think the government works most efficiently when liberals are the ones proposing grand schemes for government programs, and fiscal conservatives whittle them down to what makes sense.

Democrats are great architects for proposing social programs...Republicans are the layer of common sense required to ensure they are sustainable.

When one party controls it all, they go way off platform...absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: polarmystery
Topic Title: "I just don't understand the GOP"

Answer: Nobody does.

I think I largely do. It's a composite of groups I've written long posts describing, that I won't spend the next hour re-writing in this post, though.

:laugh: You, Michael Moore, and Hugo Chavez really have a deep understanding of the right wing :laugh:

Yeah, obviously a far left socialist like Craig234 "thinks" he understands the GOP but as normal with people like him - they are not in tune with reality.

 

[cubby1223]

You don't "understand" the GOP because all you care about is your left-wing ideology.

It's like Meghan McCain - "I'm a Progressive Republican who believes all Republicans need to act like Democrats."

No, Meghan, that makes you a DEMOCRAT...

If Republicans were fiscally conservative, they'd kick ass in elections. They're never going to win being the party of "Democrat Lite". For as much an advantage the Dems have in congress, for 40% of the earmarks in the Omnibus being from Republicans - *THAT* is why they lose elections. It's got nothing to do with abortion rights. And anyone who says differently is an out-of-touch liberal.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
When whites were a large majority the Republican Party made a bet they could gain power by playing off whites fear they would lose dominance. But that reality has been bridged as fewer and fewer any longer fear the inevitable. People are people Americans are Americans regardless of color. Now the Republican Party has been reduced to a minority of die hare gun and Bible clinging imbeciles.

Love and tolerance, understanding and light can now be seen at the end of the tunnel. A mighty wave is coming.

Love and tolerance is expensive, so give your belongings to your new god, the US government.

Love and tolerance are indeed the most expensive things there are because to have them you have to give up what is sacred to you, all your bigoted beliefs and feelings. When you do that you will know that it is you who believes in gods and turn things like government into a religion. Good government is only people acting lovingly and with tolerance of others. Of course, I understand that in comparison to you my greater capacity for understanding probably brings up in you the subject of God.

 

[Atreus21]

Essentially, this thread says the following:

The republicans will never win until they become democrats.

The left is dying to paint the 2008 election as a realignment. This isn't 1896, fellas. Nothing has changed at all.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: polarmystery
Topic Title: "I just don't understand the GOP"

Answer: Nobody does.

I think I largely do. It's a composite of groups I've written long posts describing, that I won't spend the next hour re-writing in this post, though.

:laugh: You, Michael Moore, and Hugo Chavez really have a deep understanding of the right wing :laugh:

So... Enlighten us... How is the right going to recover?

For the most part, the old tried and true republican fiscal values are sound. Low taxes, business friendly, small govt, and govt staying out of private lives. - Love it so far (obviously GWB did damage to those concepts).

The reps issue is the social values. The country and the world is becoming increasingly liberal on the social issues. The republican base has a problem with Gay marriage, abortion, religion is schools, etc. etc. They need to get back to small govt, and govt, out of people private lives - but the base is against it.

How do they solve that and regain power?

The republican "base" is really the republican fringe, just as it is on the democrat side. They are just the motivated and funded ones. Until the center of either party becomes a political force, we'll just continue to see pendulum swings, wedge issues, and the continued exponential debt.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: alchemize

The republican "base" is really the republican fringe.l

That may be true from a moderate vs extreme point of view, but the issue is that there are a heck of a lot of these people that you call extreme. While there are more democrats in this country than reps, the extreme left are a pretty small monirity int he party. The "base" republican is a very large portion of the voting republicans... Which is the problem I outlined above. Its not just a few extreme people, its the "base"

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
You don't "understand" the GOP because all you care about is your left-wing ideology.

It's like Meghan McCain - "I'm a Progressive Republican who believes all Republicans need to act like Democrats."

No, Meghan, that makes you a DEMOCRAT...

If Republicans were fiscally conservative, they'd kick ass in elections. They're never going to win being the party of "Democrat Lite". For as much an advantage the Dems have in congress, for 40% of the earmarks in the Omnibus being from Republicans - *THAT* is why they lose elections. It's got nothing to do with abortion rights. And anyone who says differently is an out-of-touch liberal.

Republicans would not win being fiscally conservative. There's a reason why Ron Paul got about 3% of the vote, and it's because fiscal conservatism simply isn't very popular as an ideology. Just because people on the internet like it doesn't mean that it actually translates well to electoral strategy.

 

[MonkeyK]

live by the single issue voters - die by the single issue voters

 

[Starbuck1975]

The GOP consistently barks on things like "faimily values", abstinence only education". Problem is their personal lives don't match the rhetoric. More and more people are getting a clue.

Every ideology has its fair share of push button issues to rally the base, with a do as I say not as I do hypocrisy coming from the party leadership.

For Republicans, those hot button issues tend to anchor on religious values. For Democrats, it tends to anchor on social programs.

Republican leadership=do this because Jesus says so, but it doesn't apply to me.
Democrat leadership=do this because it will bring about social change, just not in my back yard.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Republicans afraid their girlfriends will abort her date rape baby? Can it be more basic than that??

Edit; To understand the GOP mindset you must crawl down to the bottom of a deep dark slimy pit. You will meet the hind brain beast there and its' mantra, "Me first, mine alone and none for you!".