I just don't understand the GOP

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
After getting their asses handed to them the past couple of elections, they elect a moderate to reshape the party. When the moderate starts saying moderate things, they go batshit crazy. The guy is trying to reach out to the rest of America. I think there will be a political lynching of Michael Steele and the GOP will pay for it deeply. Something tells me the party isn't ready for change.


link

Steele 'choice' gaffe sparks GOP revolt

Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele?s series of gaffes turned into something more serious Thursday, as leaders of a pillar of the GOP?the anti-abortion movement?shifted into open revolt over comments in an interview with the men?s magazine GQ.

Steele called abortion an ?individual choice? and opposed a constitutional ban on abortion in the Feb. 24 interview, which appeared online Wednesday night. He echoed the language of the abortion rights movement and appeared to contradict his own heated assertions during his campaign for chairman that he is a committed soldier in the anti-abortion movement.

While he issued a statement Thursday affirming his opposition to abortion and his support for a constitutional amendment banning it, the damage appeared to be done as leading social conservatives publicly attacked the embattled chairman.

?Comments attributed to Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele are very troubling, and despite his clarification today the party stands to lose many of its members and a great deal of its support in the trenches of grass-roots politics,? former Gov. Mike Huckabee (R-Ark.) said in a posting on his blog. ?For Chairman Steele to even infer that taking a life is totally left up to the individual is not only a reversal of Republican policy and principle, but it's a violation of the most basic of human rights ? the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.?

Former Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, a conservative rival who ultimately backed Steele's bid for chairman, also lambasted him in a written statement.

?Chairman Steele needs to reread the Bible, the U.S. Constitution and the 2008 GOP Platform,? said Blackwell. ?He then needs to get to work or get out of the way.?

The flap also added to worries generated by a series of earlier, less policy-oriented statements, ranging from insulting radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh to offering ?slum love? to Indian-American Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-La.).

?Are you saying you think women have the right to choose abortion?? GQ?s Lisa DePaulo asked in the interview in his office.

?Yeah. I mean, again, I think that?s an individual choice,? he said, according to GQ?s transcript, which he did not dispute.

?You do?? he was asked.

?Yeah. Absolutely,? he said.

In his statement Thursday, issued through the RNC press office, Steele said, ?I am pro-life, always have been, always will be.?


?I tried to present why I am pro-life while recognizing that my mother had a ?choice? before deciding to put me up for adoption,? he said, explaining his comments. ?But the Republican Party is and will continue to be the party of life. I support our platform and its call for a Human Life Amendment.?

Huckabee said he spoke to Steele Thursday and appreciated the chairman?s ?set[ting] the record straight.?

But the explanation was too little, too late, for a series of other anti-abortion leaders.

"I think it is very troubling for a public figure, of either party, particularly one who presents himself as pro-life, to describe the abortion issue as being a matter of 'individual choice.' That is language straight out of Planned Parenthood's messaging playbook," said Charmaine Yoest, president of Americans United for Life, who called the comments ?disturbing and demoralizing."

"Michael Steele has just walked away from the Reaganesque position of strong moral clarity on abortion to personify why the Republican Party continues to be in a 'free fall',? said another activist, Jenn Giroux, the executive director of the conservative group Women Influencing the Nation. ?It is amazing that he cannot see and learn from the fact that Sarah Palin's position on abortion and her unapologetic defense of every conceived child drew crowds by the thousands on that issue alone.?

Another anti-abortion activist and Illinois foe of President Barack Obama on the subject, Jill Stanek, was even blunter.

"Michael Steele has just unmistakably proclaimed himself to be pro-choice," she said in an e-mail. "You thought he was 'embattled' last week over his Limbaugh comment? Ha. He has now stepped both feet into it."

The remarks dipped into a deep and barely-concealed well of distrust for Steele among anti-abortion activists ? sentiment that prompted him to assure the Washington Times last fall that he opposes abortion rights and favors a constitutional amendment, and left him defending his membership in the liberal Republican Leadership Council, an organization composed largely of Republicans who support abortion rights.

?[Steele] assured me as chairman his views did not matter and that he would be upholding and promoting the party platform, which is very clear on these issues,? said Family Research Council President Tony Perkins. ?It is very difficult to reconcile the GQ interview with the chairman's pledge."

The president of the Susan B. Anthony List, Marjorie Dannenfelser, said she expected Steele to win back anti-abortion support by engaging in the public fight on ?wedge issues? like Obama?s move to end the Mexico City Policy, which barred the use of federal dollars by foreign nonprofits that offered abortion counseling.

?When you have an issue like that, you ought to be using it,? she said, adding that ?that continues not to happen.?

?I read and reread the GQ article trying to figure out what it meant,? she said.

Another group taken by surprise by the GQ piece was gay Republicans. Steele drew fire from that quarter for an interview with a conservative radio host given the same day, Feb. 24, in which he responded to a question about civil unions with, ?What are you, crazy? No.?

He told GQ, ?I think that there's a whole lot that goes into the makeup of an individual that, uh, you just can't simply say, oh, like, 'Tomorrow morning I'm gonna stop being gay.' It's like saying,'Tomorrow morning I'm gonna stop being black.??

?Chairman Steele?s comments regarding a federal marriage amendment reflect the traditional conservative belief in federalism,? Christopher Barron, a former political director for the gay GOP group the Log Cabin Republicans said in an e-mailed statement.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
"Michael Steele has just walked away from the Reaganesque position of strong moral clarity on abortion to personify why the Republican Party continues to be in a 'free fall',?

The free fall is because of things like the so-called "moral" position on abortion. They're completely out of touch with reality.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
weren't we just talking about the social platform of the GOP NOT being the way to win elections?

derrr
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
Republicans have owned the whitehouse 20 of the past 30 years. Because they have lost 2 major elections in the past 2 years I don't see how the whole party is falling apart. They will regroup and win again. It will likely start in 2 years from now as people get sick of what Obama and President Pelosi are doing.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Republicans have owned the whitehouse 20 of the past 30 years. Because they have lost 2 major elections in the past 2 years I don't see how the whole party is falling apart. They will regroup and win again. It will likely start in 2 years from now as people get sick of what Obama and President Pelosi are doing.

I'm not sure how what Obama and Pelosi are doing is different from what Bush and Reagan did, spend money we don't have. The only difference is Reagan and Bush spent on defense while Obama is spending it on social care.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
The stain left by GWB and co. won't fade very quickly. It will be a long, long time before the repubs can mount a comeback. GM has a better chance of turnaround than the GOP
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Republicans have owned the whitehouse 20 of the past 30 years. Because they have lost 2 major elections in the past 2 years I don't see how the whole party is falling apart. They will regroup and win again. It will likely start in 2 years from now as people get sick of what Obama and President Pelosi are doing.

Because, like it or not, country is getting less religious and "conservative values" are going away?

Hating gays, abortion, intellectualism and pushing jesus in legislature isn't a long term strategy ...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,676
6,733
126
Change isn't easy. For years and years God has been telling Republicans that abortion is evil and slowly more and more people, voters, are telling them its good. It's agony to go from listening to God and listening to the voters and getting elected. We all have our crosses to bare.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I don't understand why some on this forum are fixated on the "demise" of the Republican party. Did the Democrats curl up and die in a corner when the Republicans took Congress from under Clinton's nose, or when Reagan and Bush and Bush all took the White House...of course not...political ideologies fall out of favor...the Republican leadership will shift, the Democrats will inevitably fall out of favor because one ideology having control of the government simply is not sustainable, and a strong Republican national candidate will eventually emerge.

It is a healthy and necessary process.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
If they can find someone who actually resembles an intelligent leader they can recover, but right now they don't have it. Steele is a goofball who can't even be taken seriously anymore after his "let's appeal to the hip-hop crowd" nonsense. Mitch McConnell is.. well.. a dork. Boehner has the personality of a plank. Palin is dumb. Jindal needs to learn how to speak in his grown-up voice and stop fabricating pointless stories. Huckabee is a nut who is unlikely to appeal to much more than the evangelical wing of the party. Romney won't tell you what he had for breakfast without consulting a group of lawyers first.

Right now it seems like Newt is their best option, but I have my doubts he could survive a long vetting process or even a short one. At least he's fairly smart, though. For some reason Republicans have decided to EMBRACE anti-intellectualism and try to appeal to fans of Joe the Plumber and Rush Limbaugh. I don't see that as a path to success, personally.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
"Michael Steele has just walked away from the Reaganesque position of strong moral clarity on abortion to personify why the Republican Party continues to be in a 'free fall',?

The free fall is because of things like the so-called "moral" position on abortion. They're completely out of touch with reality.
Reality:49% of Americans think abortion should be legal 'always' or 'most of the time'.
47% think it should be illegal with a few exceptions or illegal without exceptions.

Seems like we are split right down the middle.

Oh... and before you jump up and down about the Republicans stance on abortion rights please remember that BOTH Bill Clinton and Al Gore were pro-life before they decided to run for national office. Both parties are pretty tight on their abortion views and anyone with a different view does not get any where national. (Harry Reid being the only exception that I know of.)
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
"Michael Steele has just walked away from the Reaganesque position of strong moral clarity on abortion to personify why the Republican Party continues to be in a 'free fall',?

The free fall is because of things like the so-called "moral" position on abortion. They're completely out of touch with reality.
Reality:49% of Americans think abortion should be legal 'always' or 'most of the time'.
47% think it should be illegal with a few exceptions or illegal without exceptions.

Seems like we are split right down the middle.

Oh... and before you jump up and down about the Republicans stance on abortion rights please remember that BOTH Bill Clinton and Al Gore were pro-life before they decided to run for national office. Both parties are pretty tight on their abortion views and anyone with a different view does not get any where national. (Harry Reid being the only exception that I know of.)

I take issue with your division

Divide the second category into the percentages of those who think there is no reason and those who agree that there should be exceptions

evenly split my ass

 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,890
55,160
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
"Michael Steele has just walked away from the Reaganesque position of strong moral clarity on abortion to personify why the Republican Party continues to be in a 'free fall',?

The free fall is because of things like the so-called "moral" position on abortion. They're completely out of touch with reality.
Reality:49% of Americans think abortion should be legal 'always' or 'most of the time'.
47% think it should be illegal with a few exceptions or illegal without exceptions.

Seems like we are split right down the middle.

Oh... and before you jump up and down about the Republicans stance on abortion rights please remember that BOTH Bill Clinton and Al Gore were pro-life before they decided to run for national office. Both parties are pretty tight on their abortion views and anyone with a different view does not get any where national. (Harry Reid being the only exception that I know of.)

Except they aren't split down the middle when it comes to what the parties actually put forth. High-five to Pro-Jo's dishonest representation of the issue. The Republican party's published platform is to oppose abortion, even in cases of rape or incest, a position that Americans OVERWHELMINGLY reject.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
^ rofl. The conservative core of the base wants life without exception, and only 10-20% of Americans agree with that core based on your own poll. It's the main reason Steele is catching so much flack, he's not 100% "committed to life" (a fairly extremist stance and wording in the first place). Most reasonable people believe people should have a choice, especially for special circumstances such as mothers with medical conditions. And then there's the cold, hard reality that 60%+ of the country still doesn't want Roe v. Wade overturned like core conservatives do. So despite the fact that people are evenly split on calling themselves pro-life or pro-choice, a full additional 10%-15% of those pro-lifers aren't extremist enough to believe the right to choice should be banned federally.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
I find it interesting. Even the christains and religious parties are really starting to crumble. :p I'm all for it as well...

I hope they dry up and blow away... People are now understanding just how bad it really was. Unlike a few die hards here that seem to think they are going to come back and win. Maybe in a few terms but it won't be anything hardcore like it use to be.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
"Michael Steele has just walked away from the Reaganesque position of strong moral clarity on abortion to personify why the Republican Party continues to be in a 'free fall',?

The free fall is because of things like the so-called "moral" position on abortion. They're completely out of touch with reality.
Reality:49% of Americans think abortion should be legal 'always' or 'most of the time'.
47% think it should be illegal with a few exceptions or illegal without exceptions.

Seems like we are split right down the middle.

Oh... and before you jump up and down about the Republicans stance on abortion rights please remember that BOTH Bill Clinton and Al Gore were pro-life before they decided to run for national office. Both parties are pretty tight on their abortion views and anyone with a different view does not get any where national. (Harry Reid being the only exception that I know of.)

Except they aren't split down the middle when it comes to what the parties actually put forth. High-five to Pro-Jo's dishonest representation of the issue. The Republican party's published platform is to oppose abortion, even in cases of rape or incest, a position that Americans OVERWHELMINGLY reject.
And the Democrats position is 100% opposite that.
and we oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.
Both parties have take the most extreme of positions as their platform. Of course in reality the platforms mean very little.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,732
8,308
136
I would not want to face the possible catch 22 scenario the repubs may have put themselves in whereby they are forced to choose between accepting and adapting to the changing attitudes of the majority or wither on the vine via the anachronistic extremist ideology of their ever shrinking minority core.

Their strategy to drag Obama down with them and stonewall him in the doldrums that they now call home is a big gamble on their part, but I guess if that's all they've got left to take a swing with, then so be it.

For the time being, I can't see how doing what they've been notoriously known for when they had an absolute grip on power is going to get them back on top. Unless, of course, the Dems revert back to their old selves and do themselves in like they've done before and somewhat like what the repubs just did to themselves.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Since FDR, the GOP has been a small tent political party and damn proud of it too. They regained power because the Democrats' Viet Nam war (and its economic and social consequences) and support for the rights of Afro-Americans in the sixties.

GWB's adminstration was the culmination of the US conservative movement since Goldwater and Reagan. Right now it is considered by most US citizens to have been a failure.

The GOP is deciding what happened. Did the US reject the conservative paradign or did GWB and the Congressional Republicans fail because they tried to be a mainstream party? Should the GOP be a party of only the Religious Right, Neocons, and small federal government advocates? These groups only represent around 30% of the electorate. Should the GOP reach out to "moderates and independents"?

From what I can tell, the GOP is going back to its "core values" or the small tent and which means the only way they can get back in power is that the Democrats have to fail big.

Clinton lost control of Congress because he raised taxes and made a half assed move to support minority rights, homosexuals. Then he lost the executive branch because he lied about an affair and was impeached by the Congressional Republicans. The GOP are hoping Mr Obama and the Democrats will implode in a similar manner.

In the middle of a deep economic slowdown the GOP have become Neo Herbert Hooverians. Even Hoover changed his policies when he saw how bad the situation had become. Look for the GOP to fire up the cultural wars that worked for them in the past.

The next two to four years are going to be interesting.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Since FDR, the GOP has been a small tent political party and damn proud of it too. They regained power because the Democrats' Viet Nam war (and its economic and social consequences) and support for the rights of Afro-Americans in the sixties.

One clarification - they regained power after FDR first with the 'red scare', by claiming to be the only party that could keep the country safe from the commie hordes.

But (predicatbly?) that sort of imploded when they took it too far with Joe McCarty, and they were not strong enough to challenge FDR's domestic policies too terribly much.

That changed with Reagan, unfortunately, the great 'Wizard of Oz' who got a blank check, and cashed it for far more than was in the bank.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
This Republican I know told me back in June 2008, that all the GOP had to do was select Ms Rice for VP. Basically part of the GOP thinks that one of major reasons for Mr Obama's popularity is his "race".

I think it is hilarious that the party of Willy Horton would think that choosing a non European appearing person is a plus.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
This Republican I know told me back in June 2008, that all the GOP had to do was select Ms Rice for VP. Basically part of the GOP thinks that one of major reasons for Mr Obama's popularity is his "race".

I think it is hilarious that the party of Willy Horton would think that choosing a non European appearing person is a plus.

That's how many of them think - Democrats 'buy' the black vote with welfare bribes. They trivialize and minimize race issues as nothing more than corruption, to avoid the truth.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
This Republican I know told me back in June 2008, that all the GOP had to do was select Ms Rice for VP. Basically part of the GOP thinks that one of major reasons for Mr Obama's popularity is his "race".

I think it is hilarious that the party of Willy Horton would think that choosing a non European appearing person is a plus.

That's how many of them think - Democrats 'buy' the black vote with welfare bribes. They trivialize and minimize race issues as nothing more than corruption, to avoid the truth.

Going by what I read on this forum, the GOP is trying to replace Willie Horton with Juan the illegal alien.