I just bought GREEN electric power for the next 11 months

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SarcasticDwarf

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
9,574
2
76
Originally posted by: BrownTown
Originally posted by: Queasy
That was the point I was making. You can't tell where the energy is coming from. It is a good bet that almost ~100% of the energy supplying Gore's home comes from those coal plants though. You can't really say you are on "green energy" unless you know for a fact that there is a nearby "green" power source. The best you can say is that you are paying a little extra to subsidize the building of "green" energy plants by the power companies.

Its a silly distinction made by partisans and people who don't understand electricity. In the end though you save just as much CO2 by building a windfarm next to your house and getting power from it as you do by paying for a windfarm somewhere else (where there is actually good wind) and having that power peoples houses in Oak Ridge instead of Nashville.

Also, it should be noted alot of these green power programs are actually just PR moves, the companies actually LOSE money everytime someone signs up because green power costs considerably more. The increase in cost is just to try to make sure only a small number of people actually buy green power, it doesn't come clsoe to actually making up the difference in terms of cost.

You don't get it. With RPS they have to generate "green" power anyway. Yes, part of it is PR, but there are other aspects.

1) They have to do it anyway
2) PR
3) Determine the actual market for green power
 

futuristicmonkey

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,031
0
76
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: futuristicmonkey
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: futuristicmonkey
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
If I could buy pure nuclear power, I would. "Green" power sounds all nice and everything, but nuclear is the only source that can replace fossil fuel plants and not just supplement them IMO.

Have you run across any studies that show what amount of nuclear fuel we will have if we went from the current ~20% to 100% and China did as well (this assumes that prices would be "normal" thus encouraging further mining)?

Here's a few numbers:

A fiscal-year 2003 $7USD fuel rod will supply as much energy as a ton of coal, and you're not going to be exhausting mutliple tons of oxides into the atmosphere per each ton of coal. As for fuel supply, right now the estimates are about a 150 year useable supply of natural uranium. New deposits are being found once in a while, sure, but if our retarded governments (Canada and the USA) would allow us to use breeders, we could both reprocess our spent fuel (solving that damned waste issue) AND turn the 97% useless natural uranium into completely useable fuel.

Ignorance is nuclear's biggest issue.

I see those numbers, but I don't see anything that indicates how long of a supply we will have (foreign or domestic) if both the US and China increase their rate of usage.

If we can breed, the supply is damned-near infinite.

References for that statement?

Wiki: breeder reactor

It's hard to tell you why without going into a long discussion. I'll try to keep it short.

There are two basic types of reactors: thermal (moderated) and fast (breeder) reactors. The former uses a moderator to slow down(thermalize) the neutrons in order to make them more likely to collide with a U-235 nucleus, thus sustaining the reaction. In these reactors, U-238 is useless because it is more stable than U-235, while constituting 97% of all natural uranium -- it won't react without an input of energy, which is useless for generation.

In breeder reactors there is no moderator to slow down the neutrons. What happens is the fast neutrons have a tendency to be absorbed by the U-238 nuclei, turning them into Pu-239 nuclei. This plutonium is just as good as U-235 for a thermal reactor (which every commercial reactor in NA is, aside from the CANDU's which can be converted, but I digress). As I said before, breeders give us two advantages. First, they can take natural uranium (3% u-235; 97% u-238) and transform it into a completely useable mix of u-235 and pu-239. Second, they can take the spent fuel from normal reactors (essentially natural uranium, minus the u-235) and turn it back into useable fuel, while still creating energy.

The only major problem is plutonium is more suited to making a "simple", Hiroshima-type bomb, where the explosion is due to developing a very supercritical assembly of weapons-grade uranium really quickly. You need less plutonium to make a similarly-destructive bomb than uranium.

Edit: I forgot this in my first post, it sums it up quite well: Current supplies are about 150 years. With breeding that'll turn into about 150 million years, give or take :)
 

Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,970
2
76
www.manwhoring.com
Originally posted by: Winchester
Originally posted by: jumpr
But I don't feel so bad running my computers 24/7 now that I know they're powered by someone else's trash and a windy day.

Yeah, but what you dont see is how they destroyed the landscape and environment in our area for windmills to produce electricity that we dont even get to use. It all goes to other states (CA) or big cities. Because we are in a rural area no one gives a crap that they made our hills and mountains look like crap. There are now hundreds of windmills on what used to be our wonderful horizon.

:thumbsup: for ignorance. Not flaming the OP, I just find this highly annoying. To me put the windmills all over CA, make it look ugly. I would still be annoyed if we were getting free electricity from the wind farms.


Pic from what can be considered Round 1.

no, we just have this kind of crap all over california.

http://www.freefoto.com/preview.jsp?id=...nerators%2C+Palm+Springs%2C+California

stupid ****** politicians cater to morons who believe nuclear power is inherently unsafe and believe that it will melt down and kill them if they're anywhere near them. because of that, we're forced to rely on far less productive, and far more environmentally damaging "green" means like wind power and hydro-electric dams.

and you're crying about a couple of windmills on your horizon.
 

Journer

Banned
Jun 30, 2005
4,355
0
0
people have a choice on what their utilities are?

around here you have two choices for electricity...Southern Company Power or nothing...
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
There is someone with the same avatar as you that workds in the industry, I am trying to remember who.

IIRC, supply is a problem just as it is with any other resource. The two biggest factors seem to be how accessible the resource is and what the market price is. The easily accessible stuff is being mined now. The price of Uranium also seems to be entirely artificial due to the industry characteristics (regulation).

I have run across a few minor reports saying that we have 200 years at the current rate. If we use 5x what we currently do and THEN add in China, I would expec that number to drop rapidly. Regardless, I simply have not seen any data indicating that we will have an adequate supply.
Well if you factor powering all of China in, then obviously that makes a big difference. I'm also wondering to what extent those number take reprocessing into account. It'd be nice to talk to somebody who really knows about the supply side of it, because I'm just not familar with it. It was always my impression that there was enough of a world supply for several hundred years, but I could be mistaken.

Thousands of years if we use weapons grade plutonium from disabled nuclear weapons.

Read up on mox fuel and their specialized reactors. :)
 

Dunbar

Platinum Member
Feb 19, 2001
2,041
0
0
Originally posted by: SoulAssassin
Originally posted by: Winchester
Originally posted by: mugs
...I've seen windmills farms when I was driving from from San Jose to LA and I didn't think they were ugly. I thought it shows a desire for clean energy...
Would you rather have:

a) coal burning with it's air pollution and contribution to global warming
b) nuclear with it's threat of a meltdown and mass death
c) wind where a couple birds MIGHT get their heads chopped off

Well, the Palm Desert is not very "pretty" to start with so wind mills aren't really going to make it any uglier. Wind and solar, so called "alternative energy", only account for 1% of the power produced in this country. I don't think they are a serious answer to our huge power needs. We already have 103 nuclear powerplants in the US, I don't see a big push to shut them down. So why the opposition to building more nuclear power stations? If global warming is such a concern nuclear seems like the perfect answer. You've got the nimby's and environmentalists who oppose new wind and solar installations. So by doing nothing what they're saying is lets continue creating 80% of our power by burning fossil fuels...