If the world were one big country, wars would not be possible. We would just be stuck with those boring civil wars....
Viper, if the news told you he was caught dropping off information to evil elvis impersonators from the planet Galatta, would you believe it too? Skepticism is warranted here.
It doesn't matter WHO he was leaving it for, leaving classified information in a park warrants a nice jail sentence.
Sure he didn't intend it for school children.
Viper GTS
It doesn't matter WHO he was leaving it for, leaving classified information in a park warrants a nice jail sentence.
Sure he didn't intend it for school children.
Viper GTS
one big country means its even harder for an individual voice to ever be heard...there would be no middle class...it be upper class vs the rest. our system, despite its flaws, works.
<< one big country means its even harder for an individual voice to ever be heard...there would be no middle class...it be upper class vs the rest. our system, despite its flaws, works. >>
How did you came to this conclusion? Please provide us with your reasoning
How did you came to this conclusion? Please provide us with your reasoning
Ok, in for a penny in for a pound.
"Moonbeam, mad because I mentioned your meds the other day?" No, don't remember and don't take any.
"Treason is the highest crime against the state and as a direct result of that crime, people die or are tortured by other regimes. Oh, overlooked that little part, did you?" I said, "There is nothing wrong with loving your country and wishing ill on those who threaten it, provided your country deserves that honor." This, of course means exactly what you said with the proviso that we are talking about a guilty person and a decent country. Traitors to the Reich were heros, you know.
"Come down from your fvcking ivory tower and look at reality for a change. You betray your country, you deserve the worst that can be meted out. If you don't like this place, leave and live somewhere else but don't kill those who are serving their country." Here of course we see the lunitic desparation and contempt with which you hold your country in fact rather than in word. The reality you want me to come down to is the reality of cowardness. You do not trust that our just laws which have served the United States for over two hundred years and have made us the greatest country in the world are good enough. It is not good enough that the wheels of justice turn inexoribly and bring the traitor to heel, that he be executed or put away in a manner plain, fair, and open for all to see. No, you are the patriot fanatic, the brown shirt, the red guard, the kgb for whom the name country is the absolvent of all trace of humanity. Torture the spy, his is the highest crime against the state, doesn't matter what state. Torture him and make us exactly like those he spies for. That call for torture is the betrayl of everything your country stands for, AndrewR, don't you see. You are the traitor. You are the one so right that justice is irrelevant. You are the madman against whose presence we must ever stand vigilant.
You ask about my meds? Let me ask you, Did your dad push you around alot and make you feel like a wimp. Are you henpecked. What's with the kill the bastard, torture him crap, are you twelve and struggling with a rambo confused manhood thingi. Grow up! You're a waste of braincase and you're not even stupid.
"Moonbeam, mad because I mentioned your meds the other day?" No, don't remember and don't take any.
"Treason is the highest crime against the state and as a direct result of that crime, people die or are tortured by other regimes. Oh, overlooked that little part, did you?" I said, "There is nothing wrong with loving your country and wishing ill on those who threaten it, provided your country deserves that honor." This, of course means exactly what you said with the proviso that we are talking about a guilty person and a decent country. Traitors to the Reich were heros, you know.
"Come down from your fvcking ivory tower and look at reality for a change. You betray your country, you deserve the worst that can be meted out. If you don't like this place, leave and live somewhere else but don't kill those who are serving their country." Here of course we see the lunitic desparation and contempt with which you hold your country in fact rather than in word. The reality you want me to come down to is the reality of cowardness. You do not trust that our just laws which have served the United States for over two hundred years and have made us the greatest country in the world are good enough. It is not good enough that the wheels of justice turn inexoribly and bring the traitor to heel, that he be executed or put away in a manner plain, fair, and open for all to see. No, you are the patriot fanatic, the brown shirt, the red guard, the kgb for whom the name country is the absolvent of all trace of humanity. Torture the spy, his is the highest crime against the state, doesn't matter what state. Torture him and make us exactly like those he spies for. That call for torture is the betrayl of everything your country stands for, AndrewR, don't you see. You are the traitor. You are the one so right that justice is irrelevant. You are the madman against whose presence we must ever stand vigilant.
You ask about my meds? Let me ask you, Did your dad push you around alot and make you feel like a wimp. Are you henpecked. What's with the kill the bastard, torture him crap, are you twelve and struggling with a rambo confused manhood thingi. Grow up! You're a waste of braincase and you're not even stupid.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
<<I also thought it was interesting that the FBI said they recieved a tip from the Russians themselves. Now that doesn't make sense.>>
yes it does, the threat to "leak their activities" is used by both sides against double-agents. Its a good way to keep them under their control.
The US hasent killed a spy in many years, maybe it time to reinforce the laws against betraying our country.
yes it does, the threat to "leak their activities" is used by both sides against double-agents. Its a good way to keep them under their control.
The US hasent killed a spy in many years, maybe it time to reinforce the laws against betraying our country.
Hamburgerpimp
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2000
- 7,464
- 1
- 76
Or maybe it is just one big coverup, so quite a few people don't go down. Kind of like when one man dies to save hundreds of lives. Ever cross your mind???
Why do people hate spies so much?? Do you all hate the spies "your" governments employ?? This man had a job to do. He did it. Now he was caught and will have to pay the consequences.. But there is no reason to hate this man just for doin his job..
<< , those operatives were Russians spying against their own country so the deaths he was responsible for were those of people who would sell out their homeland for payment,perks or what have you (What I'm saying is no big loss). >>
Red, you amaze me. You're saying that human life has no value. These were people after all. I'd say they were just as valuable as you are. Remember the Declaration of Independence, we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. Of course, we must automatically assume that these people were just greedy bastards--we should never consider that they may have despised the rampant corruption in the Soviet Union, the senseless imprisonment and murder of political and religious dissidents, or even the complete lack of basic human rights.
Edit: Unfortunately, I agree with some of your other points. I will immediately check myself into therapy.
<< What happened to Innocent until proven guilty? >>
You can't expect lowbrow cromags to understand that concept, especially when a supposed "attorney" member openly advocates
for human torture as punishment. He probably got his "degree" at
Sally Struther's Paralegal School.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
Why do people hate spies so much?? Do you all hate the spies "your" governments employ?? This man had a job to do. He did it. Now he was caught and will have to pay the consequences.. But there is no reason to hate this man just for doin his job..
HE WAS SPYING FOR RUSSIA!!!! HE GAVE OUR COUNTRIES SECRETS TO RUSSIA!!!! THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT WAS EMPLOYING HIM!!!! WHAT PART DONT YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!!
HE WAS SPYING FOR RUSSIA!!!! HE GAVE OUR COUNTRIES SECRETS TO RUSSIA!!!! THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT WAS EMPLOYING HIM!!!! WHAT PART DONT YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!!
PattySmear,
What's your problem, troll?
Just because you work at the Quik-E Mart doesn't mean you have to hate anyone who is more intelligent than you.
Where did you get your J.D.?
Talk about lowbrow. Work on your grammar, you need it.
What's your problem, troll?
Just because you work at the Quik-E Mart doesn't mean you have to hate anyone who is more intelligent than you.
Where did you get your J.D.?
Talk about lowbrow. Work on your grammar, you need it.
Where exactly did it come out that I was advocating punishing the guy before a trial? I don't see it.
He should be executed, but there will not be a trial nor an execution. He will strike a bargain with the government so that they can discover exactly what was compromised and take steps to minimize or repair the damage. The government would also rather not have a trial so they don't have to reveal methods or people involved in this man's capture.
The problem with torture, which might be cathartically appealing is that you cannot trust the information, which incidentally is also the case for voluntarily supplied information (though the criminal has less reason to lie in that case -- lying under torture is done to stop it, lying under a plea bargain won't really do anything).
PapSmear: I'm the kind of lawyer that questions the logical position of having incredibly damning evidence against someone and calling them "innocent". It's a ludicrous convention, and a true tenet of little minds incapable of seeing the entire mountain of evidence behind the molehill of "who did he drop the package for?" I do not say anywhere that he should be denied his day in court, but it's a formality in some cases. Troll.
Kosugi: Any civilized person would find the methods used in the defense of a nation abhorrent. If you have ever read any history books, you might understand what has been done to protect this country in many places and at many times, and the use of torture in this case would certainly not be the first time that it has been done. In any event, I was allowing emotion to speak for me. I will admit to being a nationalist, and if such loyalty equates me to being a fascist to the likes of the bent, then so be it.
Moonbeam: You forgot Mongol, Assyrian, Hittite, black shirt. Nice tactic -- often used by those with no leg to stand on.
<< No, don't remember and don't take any. >>
And lo the problem is revealed.
IamDavid: You confuse this man with an agent sent by the "enemy" to infiltrate and "do his job". This man was trusted by his government then turned to the other side and sold out for money. It was not out of patriotism, nor ideological conviction. It is mercenary and despicable.
He should be executed, but there will not be a trial nor an execution. He will strike a bargain with the government so that they can discover exactly what was compromised and take steps to minimize or repair the damage. The government would also rather not have a trial so they don't have to reveal methods or people involved in this man's capture.
The problem with torture, which might be cathartically appealing is that you cannot trust the information, which incidentally is also the case for voluntarily supplied information (though the criminal has less reason to lie in that case -- lying under torture is done to stop it, lying under a plea bargain won't really do anything).
PapSmear: I'm the kind of lawyer that questions the logical position of having incredibly damning evidence against someone and calling them "innocent". It's a ludicrous convention, and a true tenet of little minds incapable of seeing the entire mountain of evidence behind the molehill of "who did he drop the package for?" I do not say anywhere that he should be denied his day in court, but it's a formality in some cases. Troll.
Kosugi: Any civilized person would find the methods used in the defense of a nation abhorrent. If you have ever read any history books, you might understand what has been done to protect this country in many places and at many times, and the use of torture in this case would certainly not be the first time that it has been done. In any event, I was allowing emotion to speak for me. I will admit to being a nationalist, and if such loyalty equates me to being a fascist to the likes of the bent, then so be it.
Moonbeam: You forgot Mongol, Assyrian, Hittite, black shirt. Nice tactic -- often used by those with no leg to stand on.
<< No, don't remember and don't take any. >>
And lo the problem is revealed.
IamDavid: You confuse this man with an agent sent by the "enemy" to infiltrate and "do his job". This man was trusted by his government then turned to the other side and sold out for money. It was not out of patriotism, nor ideological conviction. It is mercenary and despicable.
"HE WAS SPYING FOR RUSSIA!!!! HE GAVE OUR COUNTRIES SECRETS TO RUSSIA!!!! THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT WAS EMPLOYING HIM!!!! WHAT PART DONT YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!! "
We do the same thing.. Every nation does it to some extent.. If he, like the last guy, sold names of our spies to the Russians and they executed our spies oh'well. Everyone knows the consequences goin in.. I'm not saying we should let the man walk but you all are acting like this man had killed your parents or somthin... Torture him? For what? Doin his job?
We do the same thing.. Every nation does it to some extent.. If he, like the last guy, sold names of our spies to the Russians and they executed our spies oh'well. Everyone knows the consequences goin in.. I'm not saying we should let the man walk but you all are acting like this man had killed your parents or somthin... Torture him? For what? Doin his job?
Psychic spies from China
Try to steal your mind?s elation
Little girls from Sweden
Dream of silver screen quotations
And if you want these kind of dreams
It?s Californication
It?s the edge of the world
And all of western civilization
The sun may rise in the East
At least it settles in the final location
It?s understood that Hollywood
sells Californication
Pay your surgeon very well
To break the spell of aging
Celebrity skin is this your chin
Or is that war your waging
First born unicorn
Hard core soft porn
Dream of Californication
Dream of Californication
Marry me girl be my fairy to the world
Be my very own constellation
A teenage bride with a baby inside
Getting high on information
And buy me a star on the boulevard
It?s Californication
Space may be the final frontier
But it?s made in a Hollywood basement
Cobain can you hear the spheres
Singing songs off station to station
And Alderon?s not far away
It?s Californication
Born and raised by those who praise
Control of population everybody?s been there
and I don?t mean on vacation
First born unicorn
Hard core soft porn
Dream of Californication
Dream of Californication
Destruction leads to a very rough road
But it also breeds creation
And earthquakes are to a girl?s guitar
They?re just another good vibration
And tidal waves couldn?t save the world
From Californication
Pay your surgeon very well
To break the spell of aging
Sicker than the rest
There is no test
But this is what you?re craving
First born unicorn
Hard core soft porn
Dream of Californication
Dream of Californication
Try to steal your mind?s elation
Little girls from Sweden
Dream of silver screen quotations
And if you want these kind of dreams
It?s Californication
It?s the edge of the world
And all of western civilization
The sun may rise in the East
At least it settles in the final location
It?s understood that Hollywood
sells Californication
Pay your surgeon very well
To break the spell of aging
Celebrity skin is this your chin
Or is that war your waging
First born unicorn
Hard core soft porn
Dream of Californication
Dream of Californication
Marry me girl be my fairy to the world
Be my very own constellation
A teenage bride with a baby inside
Getting high on information
And buy me a star on the boulevard
It?s Californication
Space may be the final frontier
But it?s made in a Hollywood basement
Cobain can you hear the spheres
Singing songs off station to station
And Alderon?s not far away
It?s Californication
Born and raised by those who praise
Control of population everybody?s been there
and I don?t mean on vacation
First born unicorn
Hard core soft porn
Dream of Californication
Dream of Californication
Destruction leads to a very rough road
But it also breeds creation
And earthquakes are to a girl?s guitar
They?re just another good vibration
And tidal waves couldn?t save the world
From Californication
Pay your surgeon very well
To break the spell of aging
Sicker than the rest
There is no test
But this is what you?re craving
First born unicorn
Hard core soft porn
Dream of Californication
Dream of Californication
AndrewR No no no. No meds because I don't need them. I'm quite happy and, I should add, stable. No secret need here to torture people for the fantasized glory of my country. My country will do fine with or without me. I actually have an identity beyond country, an alegence to Higher Truth, that inalienable thing the framers mentioned, that keeps me form imagining, unlike you who read some history books, that the torture of human beings, for whaterer reason or under whatever pretext, in whatever time or condition is wrong, always wrong. You see, unlike you I'm bent. There are no exceptions and so I, unfortunately, unlike you, can never fawn all over myself with the selfcongratulatory fantasy that torture I commit is for the good of the NATION, which by the way outlaws the practice, but which I self justify because I am gifted with a divine and transcendent understanding of right and wrong that supercedes and supplants that of the ignorant chump on the street but is given to only us few holy seers who have read history books. That a donkey laden with books remains a donkey, is in your case clearly true. And as you say you are a fascist because bent people like me say so. You are the sectarian humanist, the certain fanatic, the egotistical madman whose own sense of right burries truth. Take a good look at yourself.
I feel sorry for his wife and six kids. Their lives are going to be dreadful for a long, long time. No amount of money is worth putting your family through that kind of torture. This guy is either very dumb, very venal, or both. Assuming he is guilty, of course.
This guy definitely deserves the worst that we can give him.
It's funny how people get so outraged about this chump, but turn their head to the Clinton/Gore administration. What do you think these idiots jeopardized by allowing our country's most confidential nuclear weapons secrets to fall into the hands of the Chinese? We don't have any idea of the impact that this will have, but it could be devastating. China is arguably the most dangerous nation on this planet.
It's funny how people get so outraged about this chump, but turn their head to the Clinton/Gore administration. What do you think these idiots jeopardized by allowing our country's most confidential nuclear weapons secrets to fall into the hands of the Chinese? We don't have any idea of the impact that this will have, but it could be devastating. China is arguably the most dangerous nation on this planet.
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