I hereby promise to not destroy the West!

[Craig234]

You're a fricking joke, unfortunately not a funny one. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ says you're full of shit, and that's about as reliable as it gets, and they include ALL civilian deaths and actually attribute them to those that caused them, including the islamo-fascist car bombings, murders, etc.

And yes, I watched JDAM's fall on enemy positions (very awesome by the way), and yes, we went through the resulting destuction, and no, there were not civilians in it for the most part, I never even saw a civilian in Fallujah except afterwards when they started coming back into town. The VAST majority of them evacuated about a week before our invasion, they knew before we did that we were coming.

Another thing, you are lying when you say that independent journalist were not allowed in, I talked to them on the ground, we had one with us in Baqubah. The reason scumbags like you try to tout that line is because the truth doesn't jive with your bullshit, which is stacked to the heavens. Disgusting.

I'm curious, did you know white phospho\rous was used offensively at the time? Did you learn later? What would you have said if asked, while the US military was denying it? Was there any talk about it?

 

[Noobtastic]

I'm curious, did you know white phospho\rous was used offensively at the time? Did you learn later? What would you have said if asked, while the US military was denying it? Was there any talk about it?

WP isn't illegal.

 

[xj0hnx]

LOL!

The IBC study agrees with my ~91,000 claim of the US military.

That site claims that's the low end of the TOTAL, not from US forces, learn to read. Unlike the bias liberal BS you're reading they don't lump islamo-fascist attacks in with the deaths caused by US forces to exaggerate the numbers.

I'm curious, did you know white phospho\rous was used offensively at the time? Did you learn later? What would you have said if asked, while the US military was denying it? Was there any talk about it?

Where in Iraq? Fallujah? Where did you hear that garbage? I didn't see it being used. Reading around looks like they used it to create smoke cover, but let me guess Craig according to you, and probably some leftist articles, or European papers they were targeting civilians with it? Lies.

 

[werepossum]

That site claims that's the low end of the TOTAL, not from US forces, learn to read. Unlike the bias liberal BS you're reading they don't lump islamo-fascist attacks in with the deaths caused by US forces to exaggerate the numbers.



Where in Iraq? Fallujah? Where did you hear that garbage? I didn't see it being used. Reading around looks like they used it to create smoke cover, but let me guess Craig according to you, and probably some leftist articles, or European papers they were targeting civilians with it? Lies.

To the anti-American mindset all deaths everywhere are attributable to the USA and everyone killed is an innocent civilian - an innocent civilian who left behind dozens of orphaned children.

 

[daniel49]

No, I know what the truth is because I saw it with my own eyes, not the made up bullshit you are reading in some retarded blog.

Apparenty, eyewitness account is only applicable if it agrees with your predrawn conclusions

 

[Craig234]

To the anti-American mindset all deaths everywhere are attributable to the USA and everyone killed is an innocent civilian - an innocent civilian who left behind dozens of orphaned children.

You lie. You're like OJ Simson proving you didn't murder Nicole by claiming those who say you did also claim you have killed all over the country and were involved with JFK's murder.

The liars are far less those who point outu the truth on thes isses you disagree with, than you who tried to hide the truth with straw men.

If you find one person who says womethig wrong, you use that to argue everyone who claims anything you don'tagree with is equally wrong.

 

[Craig234]

Where in Iraq? Fallujah? Where did you hear that garbage? I didn't see it being used. Reading around looks like they used it to create smoke cover, but let me guess Craig according to you, and probably some leftist articles, or European papers they were targeting civilians with it? Lies.

You are very ignorant of what happened for someone who was there.

Glad you can 'look around' now, so much for the eyewitness angle.

I asked you a simple question because of your role there, you responded with this 'garbage'.

Since you don't know, thie 'white phospohorous was used only for illumination/smoke' was the cover story lie told at first. Later, as evidence came out otherwise, the Pentagon admitted it was used as a weapon.

The US still denied it was used in what is a war crime, against civilians. There is some evidence they did, but I haven't seen anything conclusive. Iraq was said to have an inquiry, but I haven't found its findings.

I was just curious what the story was that was understood by the troops who were there. You answered that for you - oblivious to this day.

You can google for the stories on the admission it was used against fighters. Here's one link.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/incendiary-weapons-the-big-white-lie-515664.html

 

[Nebor]

You are very ignorant of what happened for someone who was there.

Glad you can 'look around' now, so much for the eyewitness angle.

I asked you a simple question because of your role there, you responded with this 'garbage'.

Since you don't know, thie 'white phospohorous was used only for illumination/smoke' was the cover story lie told at first. Later, as evidence came out otherwise, the Pentagon admitted it was used as a weapon.

The US still denied it was used in what is a war crime, against civilians. There is some evidence they did, but I haven't seen anything conclusive. Iraq was said to have an inquiry, but I haven't found its findings.

I was just curious what the story was that was understood by the troops who were there. You answered that for you - oblivious to this day.

You can google for the stories on the admission it was used against fighters. Here's one link.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/incendiary-weapons-the-big-white-lie-515664.html

WP (Willy Pete) may be used offensively to destroy equipment, or for smoke or illumination. It is not to be used to target personnel, however if there are personnel around equipment you are targeting, that does not disqualify the use of WP.

That's the guidance I was given for approving\disapproving fire missions about 8 months ago in Field Artillery school.

 

[xj0hnx]

blah, blah, dribble dribble

You're an idiot. There were no civilians in Fallujah when we went in, and by no I mean very, very, very, very few and the ones there were bordering on combatant, or aiding the islamo-fascist, I didn't see a single one (civilian), and spent a good part of the time dismounted, going house to house and through the city. Every dead body we found was in some type of uniform with weapons. The whole town was pretty much boooby trapped, landmine, IEDs so if some did get killed it's a good chance it was by their own hand, and since old military shells are the favortie ordnance for IEDs they probably had some too. I saw LOTS of arty falling, bombings and didn't see WP used at all, if it was it was in the first night to soften targets, and provide cover before the main forces moved in. You'd do good to stop blindly believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[Craig234]

You're an idiot. There were no civilians in Fallujah when we went in, and by no I mean very, very, very, very few and the ones there were bordering on combatant, or aiding the islamo-fascist, I didn't see a single one (civilian), and spent a good part of the time dismounted, going house to house and through the city. Every dead body we found was in some type of uniform with weapons. The whole town was pretty much boooby trapped, landmine, IEDs so if some did get killed it's a good chance it was by their own hand, and since old military shells are the favortie ordnance for IEDs they probably had some too. I saw LOTS of arty falling, bombings and didn't see WP used at all, if it was it was in the first night to soften targets, and provide cover before the main forces moved in. You'd do good to stop blindly believe everything you read on the internet.

Actually, you're an idiot. You said WP was not used as a weapon and called it lies to say it was. When I showed you the Pentagon admitted it was, if you had any honor, you would have apologized.

Instead, you don't seem to even have looed at what was handed or done any further checking, you just nake up an answer based on what one person saw and ignore the evidence.

And then you change the subject to civilians, something else you can't seem to get right. Reports of even the military's own estimates I've seen are in two similar forms, number and percent. The first that 200,000 evacuated leaving an estimated 30,000-50,000; the second that an estimated 79%-90% of 300,000 evacuated, leaving 30,000-90,000.

I'm not challenging the parts you did see. They match other reports as well.

 

[Craig234]

WP (Willy Pete) may be used offensively to destroy equipment, or for smoke or illumination. It is not to be used to target personnel, however if there are personnel around equipment you are targeting, that does not disqualify the use of WP.

That's the guidance I was given for approving\disapproving fire missions about 8 months ago in Field Artillery school.

Thanks. It slightly contradicts what I've seen, that while some say using it to target enemy forces is 'illegal', there aren't any laws/treaties actually against the US doing so (I don't know about other countries.

I object to it morally, but haven't found any legal prohibition. Maybe there's something I'm unaware of in the military's policies, and that was the basis of what you were taught?

The Pentagon seems reluctant to admit its use for targetting forces, hence the denials at first, but it's not only been used there, there's evidence of use in Afghanistan and by Israel in Gaza against civilians.

I wonder why it was approved against forces in Falluja, if the policies are strong enough you were trained not to do so.

 

[Noobtastic]

That site claims that's the low end of the TOTAL, not from US forces, learn to read. Unlike the bias liberal BS you're reading they don't lump islamo-fascist attacks in with the deaths caused by US forces to exaggerate the numbers

Yes, I agree. And as I said before, US forces have killed ~27,000 according to military sources since the start of the war.

To the anti-American mindset all deaths everywhere are attributable to the USA and everyone killed is an innocent civilian - an innocent civilian who left behind dozens of orphaned children.

I never said that. But Operation Phantom Fury did kill thousands of civilians, and made hundred of thousands homeless. The city is still in ruins 4 years later.

This is a slight to the US military. It has made progress compared to Operation Rolling Thunder and other whole-sale carpet bombing campaigns during the Vietnam War, but don't like to yourself. Insurgents purposely embed themselves among civilians to inflate casualties and discourage allied troops from firing.

The Pentagon seems reluctant to admit its use for targetting forces, hence the denials at first, but it's not only been used there, there's evidence of use in Afghanistan and by Israel in Gaza against civilians.

First off, white phosphorus isn't illegal by any stretches of the imagination. It is one of the most effective smoke-screens out there, and is typically used to protect infantry from vulnerable locations (i.e, exposed in an open street) and blind shoulder anti-aircraft/anti-tank launchers.

The WP used in Afghanistan and Gaza were not "against" civilians. WP is not an offensive weapon.

It is extremely inefficient as a fire weapon and there are hundreds of bombs carried by most Western militaries that are capable of incinerating entire neighborhoods.

the civilian "casualties" (no recorded deaths in Gaza or Afghanistan from the WP) is most likely due to the fact that terrorists intentionally fight among civilians to discourage US and Israeli forces from attacking them.

So in the end WP is better than totally dropping a bomb, because it allows troops to come in close and make it easier to differentiate between combatant and civilian.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

This is one of the worst policies I have ever seen. I'm sure the Brits are thrilled that their tax dollars are going to fund this.

"President Karzai, Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State and Ban Ki Moon, the UN Secretary-General, flew in yesterday for the talks, which will be chaired by David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary."

Ack...crap!

 

[xj0hnx]

Yes, I agree. And as I said before, US forces have killed ~27,000 according to military sources since the start of the war.

27,000 is a far cry from the hundreds of thousands you claimed earlier from a single operation, and an incredibly low number for a conflict lasting 7 years.

I never said that. But Operation Phantom Fury did kill thousands of civilians, and made hundred of thousands homeless. The city is still in ruins 4 years later.

No it didn't, there weren't "thousands" of civilian there, and the military made a painful effort NOT to destroy the whole city, considering the population isn't even a million, having "hundreds of thousands" homeless is a gross exaggeration. If you want to any credibility try sticking so number that actually make sense. I was honestly surprised at how intact the city was at the end of the seige.

Insurgents purposely embed themselves among civilians to inflate casualties and discourage allied troops from firing.

They do, so you need to direct your anger at the islamo-fascist, but I can gaurantee you that anyone that claims thousands of civilians were killed in Fallujah is lying, unless they are talking about the ones the islamo-fascist have killed.

The US still denied it was used in what is a war crime, against civilians.

Craig, this is what I am refering to. Civilians were not targeted, and we didn't use WP on them, and like I said, I didn't see it used at all in Fallujah, do this mean that it wasn't used in limited areas? Nope.

 

[werepossum]

This is one of the worst policies I have ever seen. I'm sure the Brits are thrilled that their tax dollars are going to fund this.

"President Karzai, Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State and Ban Ki Moon, the UN Secretary-General, flew in yesterday for the talks, which will be chaired by David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary."

Ack...crap!

What, you thought millions of dollars would be thrown away and we wouldn't demand our share? Chance not.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

What, you thought millions of dollars would be thrown away and we wouldn't demand our share? Chance not.

I know, I know...egg on my face.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You're so full of shit it's coming out of your ears. I was there, you are clueless. 150,00 living in tents is not the same as killed, and that is a lie too (unless you are referring to the Marines stationed at the FOB that was there, ya, they live in tents, some of them). There were almost no civilians in Fallujah when we rolled in, they evacuated about week before we even rolled in, it was a freaking ghost town, with the exception of a over estimated islamofascist "resistance".

I was there, in fact, i led the leading force in and NO ONE, not even me can make any estimates by simply being there.

The numbers are there because of reports, both military and Iraqi lost reports.

You were one of the weekend warriors i presume, who rolled in when we cleared the way?

Pussy.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I was there, in fact, i led the leading force in and NO ONE, not even me can make any estimates by simply being there.

The numbers are there because of reports, both military and Iraqi lost reports.

You were one of the weekend warriors i presume, who rolled in when we cleared the way?

Pussy.

Careful, or I'll have some people who shall remain nameless shipped out to be conscripted to serve with you. Apparently we're capable of anything. Why not that?

:awe::biggrin:

 

[Dari]

Nuke and forget about it.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Careful, or I'll have some people who shall remain nameless shipped out to be conscripted to serve with you. Apparently we're capable of anything. Why not that?

:awe::biggrin:

Them and my Brixton crew could probably clear the area but not in a way that would adhere to any rules...

We did do it by the rules, there has NEVER been any complaints about any site where the SAS has been involved, not in international nor national courts.

There is a good reason for that.