I hereby promise to not destroy the West!

[rudder]

Now show me the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7005445.ece

Curious though... what happens when the money runs out and these guys decide to go after western interests again?

Do the Brits honestly think that the 'drafted' Taliban fighter whose heart in not in the fight will actually see any of that money?

 

[Bateluer]

So, we are basically financing the people attacking us?

 

[highland145]

The last time anyone gave their lunch money to a bully insured it wasn't the last time. The only thing the fanatics understand is having their dick knocked in the dirt.

 

[Noobtastic]

So?

US has poured billions buying out ex-insurgents in Iraq, or paying them to not attack Americans.

It's easier, cheaper, and keeps the conflict going while "bringing results" to give the impression that "job can be finished!" when in reality it's more of a more sophisticated quasi-bait and switch.

It simply doesn't work. In the end the ruthless thugs win out. Israel tried buying out the Palestinians.

You know what happened?

The PLO became even more paranoid, and started behaving more ruthlessly towards their own. Thousands tortured and over 700 killed for being "Zionist collaborators" supposedly.

The Palestinians honored their history of being violent when it pays, and Israel could not afford to protect money-loving Palestinians from better armed and paid Palestinians not on Israeli tax dollars.

When the money stops coming, people will go to whoever has the money.

People turn to the Taliban because they provide an identity, a job...a salary, and a life.

People turned to the PLO because they had the money. Palestinians would receive thousands of shekels for attacking Israeli settlers, or protesting, whatever it took.

Families of suicide bombers paid for offering their sons...etc...

this isn't unique. It goes on in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan...and NO MONEY CAN STOP IT!

After a trillion bucks sunk into Iraq you'd think by now america's would say it's a lost cause...

 

[Jhhnn]

The Israelis are equally thuggish- they just have better PR, built on an American guilt trip about the holocaust.

Westerners have a difficult time understanding the loyalty and motivation of insular tribes, also at comprehending the breadth and depth of corruption in the Afghan regime we support. Much, maybe most of the money intended to win the hearts and minds of the countryside never makes it out of Kabul, other than to be deposited in foreign bank accounts by corrupt Karzai cronies. The only justice is what you can pay for, as well. If you want something done, well, the proper palms need to be greased.

The Taliban, despite all their other shortcomings, are not corrupt, not in that sense. For them, it's not about money, but about ideals. Not that I agree with those ideals, but those ideals do appeal to many Afghans. And the Taliban took care of business in their own primitive way-banditry and extortion were dealt with very harshly. Traditional, conservative country folk felt safe, and were, because what they believed in was the same as what the Taliban believed.

We're not going to remake Afghan society. They will remain devoutly and radically muslim, from our perspective, and women's rights will remain abysmal. The best we can hope for is for them to see us not as enemies but in a more neutral light, in mixed terms, so that they won't harbor extremist forces intent on our demise. That was the whole point, right?

So we need to encourage and nurture the traditional structure and people who can help that happen. If we can help local leaders rebuild and develop their resources, it's a reasonable way to proceed. Locals know what they need to rebuild infrastructure and support far better than any outsiders. If we want to accomplish that, we must, by necessity, bypass the central govt. If we want young Afghan men to do something other than fight us, we need to provide seed money so that their leaders can give them something else to do, something where they can see concrete results for themselves and their families, their tribe. It's what we should have done in the first place, after the invasion.

Despite the Zionist ravings, above, that kind of effort has worked in Iraq. I think we need to accept that much of the violence there was part of a "Salvador Option" executed by our own govt, and it seems unlikely that the Israelis weren't promoting that, themselves. They apparently want very much for muslims to be killing each other, bickering, being weakened and divided in the process. It serves their interests, obviously.

 

[Noobtastic]

The Israelis are equally thuggish- they just have better PR, built on an American guilt trip about the holocaust.

Iraq War deaths: 200,000 civilians
Israeli-Palestinian-Arab-conflict of the last 25 years: 10,000 deaths, majority combatant

Israel has not destroyed its enemies, unlike the USA. In less than 2 months American's killed more people than the IDF had in 10 years during Operation Phantom Fury.

you tell me who the thugs are.

 

[JS80]

They better be lacing the money with anthrax.

 

[al981]

but but but i thought the west doesn't negotiate with durm terrorists.

great story, hypocrisy for the lol.

hey, i just killed your fellow soldiers...pay me money so i don't do it again for a few years 😉

 

[StinkyPinky]

The Romans did this in a futile attempt to stop barbarians invading their empire and killing their men.

It didn't work. It just bought their loyalty until the money ran out and then they just continued killing.

 

[Pocatello]

The Romans did this in a futile attempt to stop barbarians invading their empire and killing their men.

It didn't work. It just bought their loyalty until the money ran out and then they just continued killing.

Hopefully, by that time, we will have our troops out, and they can continue to kill each other, just like always.

 

[xj0hnx]

Israel has not destroyed its enemies, unlike the USA. In less than 2 months American's killed more people than the IDF had in 10 years during Operation Phantom Fury.

WTF are you talking about? Apparently you don't even know what Operation Phantom Fury was. It was the second invasion of Fallujah, and there were less than 1000 civilian casualties, and I seriously doubt the estimate of 800ish as I didn't see ANY civilians until after the fighting was pretty much done.

 

[Noobtastic]

WTF are you talking about? Apparently you don't even know what Operation Phantom Fury was. It was the second invasion of Fallujah, and there were less than 1000 civilian casualties, and I seriously doubt the estimate of 800ish as I didn't see ANY civilians until after the fighting was pretty much done.

Please. USA and Britain both denied independent media journalists into the region. Estimated civilian casualties are upwards of 8,000.

And to this very day, 4 years later, over 150,000 Iraqis are still homeless from the operation and live in tents.

You didn't see any civilians because the entire western world - including BBC - was sexing up the conflict. MI6 was implanting propaganda into the mainstream media and even the leftist journalists were sucking up to the generals.

same deal in Somalia. You remember that movie Black Hawk Down and how it romanticized the US special forces operation there?

Where upwards of 1,000+ civilians were killed, but the movie doesn't show it.

Similar to the 900 people killed in target killings in Afghanistan since 2008 by NATO. And I don't mean terrorists, I mean Taliban drug lords.

US military policies is extremely hypocritical.

 

[xj0hnx]

Please. USA and Britain both denied independent media journalists into the region. Estimated civilian casualties are upwards of 8,000.

And to this very day, 4 years later, over 150,000 Iraqis are still homeless from the operation and live in tents.

You didn't see any civilians because the entire western world - including BBC - was sexing up the conflict. MI6 was implanting propaganda into the mainstream media and even the leftist journalists were sucking up to the generals.

same deal in Somalia. You remember that movie Black Hawk Down and how it romanticized the US special forces operation there?

Where upwards of 1,000+ civilians were killed, but the movie doesn't show it.

Similar to the 900 people killed in target killings in Afghanistan since 2008 by NATO. And I don't mean terrorists, I mean Taliban drug lords.

US military policies is extremely hypocritical.

You're so full of shit it's coming out of your ears. I was there, you are clueless. 150,00 living in tents is not the same as killed, and that is a lie too (unless you are referring to the Marines stationed at the FOB that was there, ya, they live in tents, some of them). There were almost no civilians in Fallujah when we rolled in, they evacuated about week before we even rolled in, it was a freaking ghost town, with the exception of a over estimated islamofascist "resistance".

 

[Noobtastic]

You're so full of shit it's coming out of your ears. I was there, you are clueless.

You just can't face the truth.

 

[xj0hnx]

You just can't face the truth.

No, I know what the truth is because I saw it with my own eyes, not the made up bullshit you are reading in some retarded blog.

 

[Noobtastic]

No, I know what the truth is because I saw it with my own eyes, not the made up bullshit you are reading in some retarded blog.

Really? You saw the total destruction of Falluja over a month?

Only 1,000 civilians died according to your eyes. Did you count them? Did you watch the F-16s drop hundreds of JDAMs over the cities, incinerating how ever many Iraqis in a matter of seconds?

 

[Ozoned]

Now show me the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7005445.ece

Curious though... what happens when the money runs out and these guys decide to go after western interests again?

Do the Brits honestly think that the 'drafted' Taliban fighter whose heart in not in the fight will actually see any of that money?

Well, the well is running dry. We do have, however, an extensive stockpile of very exotic wmd that we could choose to employ to get our point across.

 

[Nebor]

Please. USA and Britain both denied independent media journalists into the region. Estimated civilian casualties are upwards of 8,000.

And to this very day, 4 years later, over 150,000 Iraqis are still homeless from the operation and live in tents.

You didn't see any civilians because the entire western world - including BBC - was sexing up the conflict. MI6 was implanting propaganda into the mainstream media and even the leftist journalists were sucking up to the generals.

same deal in Somalia. You remember that movie Black Hawk Down and how it romanticized the US special forces operation there?

Where upwards of 1,000+ civilians were killed, but the movie doesn't show it.

Similar to the 900 people killed in target killings in Afghanistan since 2008 by NATO. And I don't mean terrorists, I mean Taliban drug lords.

US military policies is extremely hypocritical.

You are full of it. The US Military was very clear with the people of Fallujah: Anyone remaining in the city is doing so with hostile intent. Leave now or face the fury of the United States Marine Corps.

They were given time to leave. Everyone that remained was an enemy combatant.

 

[werepossum]

No, I know what the truth is because I saw it with my own eyes, not the made up bullshit you are reading in some retarded blog.

You're wasting your time, dude. When you see "200,000 civilian casualties" it's time to cut and run; some battles can't be won.

And thank you for your service.

 

[Noobtastic]

You're wasting your time, dude. When you see "200,000 civilian casualties" it's time to cut and run; some battles can't be won.

And thank you for your service.

Yes, over 200,000 civilians killed in the conflict. 91,000 confirmed civilian casualties since 2003, but this a very very conservative estimate and many other studies suggest figures as high as 400,000.

According to the military, US forces have killed 27,000 civilians since the war began, but that is inconsistent with independent reports.

And let's not forget the 5 million orphans.

 

[Ronstang]

Time has proven that governments, and the people who comprise them, are stupid.

 

[werepossum]

Yes, over 200,000 civilians killed in the conflict. 91,000 confirmed civilian casualties since 2003, but this a very very conservative estimate and many other studies suggest figures as high as 400,000.

According to the military, US forces have killed 27,000 civilians since the war began, but that is inconsistent with independent reports.

And let's not forget the 5 million orphans.

I heard an "expert" a few months ago who declared authoritatively that the USA had killed upwards of twelve billion civilians in Iraq alone; independent studies proved it. Why not quote that number? If you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly; if you're going to be a nut, be a BIG nut.

Since you obviously can't do math, I'll point out that 200,000 civilians and 5 million orphans requires that each dead civilian had on average twenty-five children. A man bicycling down the wrong road statistically had twenty-five children. A husband and wife whose house was struck with an arrant bomb statistically had fifty children - and if they had two parents living with them, statistically they had a hundred children. And of course that only holds true if no children were killed - otherwise the number of children per family would just be silly. But that's probably true, because our bombs aren't like other people's bombs. Nope, ours are high tech synthetic intelligences designed to cause the maximum misery; they know to avoid the children 'cause it's so much fun orphaning them instead. We can do this because we're evil super villains. Everyone knows this.

If you're going to be stupid - and you know you are - at least be spectacularly stupid so that you'll stand out.

 

[Noobtastic]

I heard an "expert" a few months ago who declared authoritatively that the USA had killed upwards of twelve billion civilians in Iraq alone; independent studies proved it. Why not quote that number? If you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly; if you're going to be a nut, be a BIG nut.

Since you obviously can't do math, I'll point out that 200,000 civilians and 5 million orphans requires that each dead civilian had on average twenty-five children. A man bicycling down the wrong road statistically had twenty-five children. A husband and wife whose house was struck with an arrant bomb statistically had fifty children - and if they had two parents living with them, statistically they had a hundred children. And of course that only holds true if no children were killed - otherwise the number of children per family would just be silly. But that's probably true, because our bombs aren't like other people's bombs. Nope, ours are high tech synthetic intelligences designed to cause the maximum misery; they know to avoid the children 'cause it's so much fun orphaning them instead. We can do this because we're evil super villains. Everyone knows this.

If you're going to be stupid - and you know you are - at least be spectacularly stupid so that you'll stand out.

I'm just quoting the math.

As I said, conservative estimates place 90,000+ KIA civilians (not wounded), 40% were killed by US forces, mostly in the first two years of the conflict.

The "5 million" orphans comes from this:

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=1478

I'm not sure on the reliability, but millions have become orphans due to the conflict.

The iraqi government and hospital morgues have reported receiving 100 bodies a day since 2004. For arguments we can say May 20th 2004 since that is one year after the invasion.

May 20th 2004 - May 20th 2009 is 5 years, or 1825 days. 100 bodies per day x 1825 combat days = 180,000.

So US says 91,000. Iraq hospitals say ~180,000. Some liberal studies say 900,000.

It's a lot of people. And then we aren't counting the millions made homeless.

 

[xj0hnx]

Yes, over 200,000 civilians killed in the conflict. 91,000 confirmed civilian casualties since 2003, but this a very very conservative estimate and many other studies suggest figures as high as 400,000.

According to the military, US forces have killed 27,000 civilians since the war began, but that is inconsistent with independent reports.

And let's not forget the 5 million orphans.

You're a fricking joke, unfortunately not a funny one. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ says you're full of shit, and that's about as reliable as it gets, and they include ALL civilian deaths and actually attribute them to those that caused them, including the islamo-fascist car bombings, murders, etc.

And yes, I watched JDAM's fall on enemy positions (very awesome by the way), and yes, we went through the resulting destuction, and no, there were not civilians in it for the most part, I never even saw a civilian in Fallujah except afterwards when they started coming back into town. The VAST majority of them evacuated about a week before our invasion, they knew before we did that we were coming.

Another thing, you are lying when you say that independent journalist were not allowed in, I talked to them on the ground, we had one with us in Baqubah. The reason scumbags like you try to tout that line is because the truth doesn't jive with your bullshit, which is stacked to the heavens. Disgusting.

 

[Noobtastic]

You're a fricking joke, unfortunately not a funny one. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ says you're full of shit, and that's about as reliable as it gets, and they include ALL civilian deaths and actually attribute them to those that caused them, including the islamo-fascist car bombings, murders, etc.

And yes, I watched JDAM's fall on enemy positions (very awesome by the way), and yes, we went through the resulting destuction, and no, there were not civilians in it for the most part, I never even saw a civilian in Fallujah except afterwards when they started coming back into town. The VAST majority of them evacuated about a week before our invasion, they knew before we did that we were coming.

Another thing, you are lying when you say that independent journalist were not allowed in, I talked to them on the ground, we had one with us in Baqubah. The reason scumbags like you try to tout that line is because the truth doesn't jive with your bullshit, which is stacked to the heavens. Disgusting.

LOL!

The IBC study agrees with my ~91,000 claim of the US military.

However, Lancet posits a much higher figure. Some differentiate between actual deaths, and deaths indirectly attributed to the war - disease, lack of medical aid, etc..etc...they call it, "unnatural deaths."

as far as media is concerned, there were no independent journalists in falluja. US and British military had embedded journalists from CNN, Fox News, BBC...etc, but every journalist who was in the conflict had the tacit support for the US military.

America learned from vietnam.

thousands of civilians died in operation phantom fury.

Estimated civilian death toll range from 6,000 - 8,000.

http://spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=5053