I have questions for 2A absolutists

[Skel]

I should clarify a bit.. the NRA TV thing. I can find a ton of YouTube videos where people have openly called for murder.. I'm not sure why I should care about some twit on an NRA TV YouTube video any more than them.

 

[ivwshane]

I should clarify a bit.. the NRA TV thing. I can find a ton of YouTube videos where people have openly called for murder.. I'm not sure why I should care about some twit on an NRA TV YouTube video any more than them.

You don't think people should care about what a "non profit organization" is doing with money they give to it? Because they are essentially like some random YouTube channel?

Are you fucking retarded? That's one of the dumbest things I've read on this forum and you are competing with some really stupid people.
The NRA isn't just some random entity, its one of the most powerful lobbies in the country with influence at the local, state and federal level and they have millions of members. To think that the propaganda they put out is equivalent to some random YouTube videos is straight up asinine!

 

[Skel]

You don't think people should care about what a "non profit organization" is doing with money they give to it? Because they are essentially like some random YouTube channel?

Are you fucking retarded? That's one of the dumbest things I've read on this forum and you are competing with some really stupid people.
The NRA isn't just some random entity, its one of the most powerful lobbies in the country with influence and the local, state and federal level and they have millions of members. To think that the propaganda they put out is equivalent to some random YouTube videos is straight up asinine!

No.. I don't think most people care that much.. most people don't know where the money goes when they donate to any non-profit. For the NRA a good chunk of those NRA members that pay their dues are idiots that would say something a lot more graphic than "Your Time is running out", so for that non-profit I don't see how what they said was something it's members would care about. Most people that are anti-NRA already thought the NRA was saying this crap, so I'm not sure why they should care. I'm really not sure why anyone would give a shit what some twit on NRA TV of all places would say. Unless I've completely missed where they openly said "Hey NRA peeps, go out and straight murder people" I struggle to see how they're any different than some YouTube twit that is doing that. Would you even know NRA had a NRA TV if the twit didn't create that ad for her "show", and I use "show" in the most loosest of terms.

 

[ivwshane]

No.. I don't think most people care that much.. most people don't know where the money goes when they donate to any non-profit. For the NRA a good chunk of those NRA members that pay their dues are idiots that would say something a lot more graphic than "Your Time is running out", so for that non-profit I don't see how what they said was something it's members would care about. Most people that are anti-NRA already thought the NRA was saying this crap, so I'm not sure why they should care. I'm really not sure why anyone would give a shit what some twit on NRA TV of all places would say. Unless I've completely missed where they openly said "Hey NRA peeps, go out and straight murder people" I struggle to see how they're any different than some YouTube twit that is doing that. Would you even know NRA had a NRA TV if the twit didn't create that ad for her "show", and I use "show" in the most loosest of terms.

I am not worried about people like me who don't listen to propaganda and who don't think the 2nd is to overthrow a tyrannical government.

 

[Skel]

I am not worried about people like me who don't listen to propaganda and who don't think the 2nd is to overthrow a tyrannical government.

Did you think the people that are NRA members talk about shooting people if they come for their guns?

 

[ivwshane]

Did you think the people that are NRA members talk about shooting people if they come for their guns?

In a round about way, yes. On this very forum, there have been members who wish for a civil war and they like to brag that because they (gun owners) have all the weapons their victory will all but be assured.
Don't take my anecdotal word though, you can look up the data from the FBI and see that right wing domestic terrorism and extremism is on the rise.

Gun ownership is down and yet the amount of weapons in the US is up, that means fewer and fewer people own guns and those that do have lots of them. As you've stated already, there is a gun fetish in this country and its typically held by the same folks who think it's their right to overthrow the government when they don't like it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I wrote too much. I'm too angry, so I set it aside. Don't want to be sanctioned for my very, very thoughtful free speech.

But "Protect us from our government"?!

I should say so! We need to protect ourselves . . . from our illegitimate traitor president government!

You've got to be kidding!!

 

[Jhhnn]

I should clarify a bit.. the NRA TV thing. I can find a ton of YouTube videos where people have openly called for murder.. I'm not sure why I should care about some twit on an NRA TV YouTube video any more than them.

Because the NRA is a big political donor, a mover & shaker in the GOP world. They back up their contributions with extremist.propaganda of their own.

 

[Skel]

In a round about way, yes. On this very forum, there have been members who wish for a civil war and they like to brag that because they (gun owners) have all the weapons their victory will all but be assured.
Don't take my anecdotal word though, you can look up the data from the FBI and see that right wing domestic terrorism and extremism is on the rise.

Gun ownership is down and yet the amount of weapons in the US is up, that means fewer and fewer people own guns and those that do have lots of them. As you've stated already, there is a gun fetish in this country and its typically held by the same folks who think it's their right to overthrow the government when they don't like it.

Well.. you made my point.. you already think that NRA members are saying that, so why care about some twit on some fetish website? I freely admit, I might be missing something here as the only thing I could find and remember was the "time is running out" thing, which I don't disagree is threatening, more so because you know a gun could be involved.. I just know that's no worse than the stupidity that gets put on Twitter or YouTube. YMMV greatly..

As far as sales, from what I'm told by people that own gun shops, it's fluctuates depending on who's in office. They had record sales during Obama, and from what I'm told they're selling a ton of ARs due to the fear they might be banned again. Right or wrong..

 

[Skel]

Because the NRA is a big political donor, a mover & shaker in the GOP world. They back up their contributions with extremist.propaganda of their own.

Maybe I'm just slow on this one.. I just don't see why people care past their lobbying. People should care greatly on both sides of the gun topic. The NRA does lobby greatly, and from what they like to say, they're the first line of defense of the gun.. which I see as their job for the members that pay them.. Russia not included in that. Don't know wtf that was about, and the people involved should be held accountable. I just don't see why anyone would care what the propaganda coming out of them is. Most people already agree with them or don't.

 

[ivwshane]

You are trying to separate their lobbying from their propaganda, I don't know why you are doing that.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I should clarify a bit.. the NRA TV thing. I can find a ton of YouTube videos where people have openly called for murder.. I'm not sure why I should care about some twit on an NRA TV YouTube video any more than them.

Please provide one example. More if you have them.

 

[Skel]

You are trying to separate their lobbying from their propaganda, I don't know why you are doing that.

Because they're two different groups.. NRA TV was something the NRA overpaid for with little results. It's why it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Skel]

Please provide one example. More if you have them.

I am not going through YouTube videos finding ones of idiots openly saying we should murder people for you.. I'm concerned you seem to believe they don't exist.. YouTube is like Twitter.. people that should be filtered unfiltered.. and some amusing stuff.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I am not going through YouTube videos finding ones of idiots openly saying we should murder people for you.. I'm concerned you seem to believe they don't exist.. YouTube is like Twitter.. people that should be filtered unfiltered.. and some amusing stuff.

I'm quite skeptical and you've done nothing to back up your pretty extreme claim. Whatever.

 

[Skel]

I'm quite skeptical and you've done nothing to back up your pretty extreme claim. Whatever.

Not going to lie.. I'm feeling pretty amused.. this is my first SlowSpyder thing. I can tell you don't read through posts before vomiting crap on the screen. I've been actually defending guns in this thread...

If nothing else, I think everyone in this forum can agree.. you make it very difficult to have any sort of dialogue with you..

 

[SlowSpyder]

Not going to lie.. I'm feeling pretty amused.. this is my first SlowSpyder thing. I can tell you don't read through posts before vomiting crap on the screen. I've been actually defending guns in this thread...

If nothing else, I think everyone in this forum can agree.. you make it very difficult to have any sort of dialogue with you..

That's great we agree on guns as a right. But you said the NRA has openly called for murder on Youtube. I didn't think it was outrageous to ask for a video or two as I am skeptical of that. If I misread your post, I apologize, but that is how it reads to me.

 

[Skel]

That's great we agree on guns as a right. But you said the NRA has openly called for murder on Youtube. I didn't think it was outrageous to ask for a video or two as I am skeptical of that. If I misread your post, I apologize, but that is how it reads to me.

My point that you didn't read what I've been saying is correct. I've actually been struggling to understand why I should care about some twit on the NRA TV.. to be fair though, I also couldn't find anywhere where they were directly saying people should murder someone, just a "Time is running out" thing. If they're opening saying murder people I would have to change my view and agree.. Otherwise they're so low on the totem pole of people we should take seriously that they might as well be YouTube twits.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

As I said before, if you need to protect yourself from your government, I would suggest we need to be protected from this administration. In fact, I KNOW we need to be protected from this administration.

For the rest of it, avoiding discussions of bolt-actions and drill presses and Hg, you don't need any gun rights.

If you want a civil war, or you want to overthrow the government, forget about gun regulation, the Constitution -- all of it.

Just make your plans, raid a federal armory, steal the guns and ammo, and there you are.

This time, don't get caught and hung from the gallows. Even so, you could be a "martyr to the cause", set things rolling, and become a great American terroriss'. Maybe someone would compose a song about you . . . .

 

[obidamnkenobi]

Nothing "allowed " about it.

In free countries nothing that is not expressly forbidden is allowed.
In authoritarian countries nothing that is not expressly allowed is forbidden.
It's just a difference in perspective and why those on the left are always Authoritarians.

You know when you use words you don't understand in a meaningless context it makes you look like a complete idiot. Just a hint.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

"Well regulated" is pretty vague and can vary widely from person to person. But, you can't regulate without a gun.

Guns have nothing to do with penis size. <yawn>

Actually, it's not, it's pretty clear.

Source: 200 years of Jurisprudence

 

[ivwshane]

Where to begin...



I'm under no such impression. Lets take your example of trump and lets say some how he doesn't leave office and he's somehow managed to convince whoever would remove him from office not to do so. Do you think the current crop of gun owners with the most weapons and the baddest weapons will defend trump or suddenly turn on him? I'll bet money they'll support him no matter what. So now what? Who is going to save our democracy now? Is the military going to side with trump or will they now fight the heavily armed trump supporters? How is our democracy secured using your interpretation of the 2nd? By making sure more people have guns? So basically if we ever get to that point then the remedy would be a civil war. Is that what the founding fathers envisioned?

What you have failed to realize is that those that work in government be it pencil pushers or professional soldiers and everything in between, are the people. If so many people are willing to break the law to support a tyrant and every check and balance we've put in place, via the constitution or laws an institutions then democracy as we know it is already dead.

We are fucked!

You advocate for anarchy while completely ignoring the fact that our government is made up of the people. The tyrants aren't the ones who vote and work in government doing the job the elected officials tasked them to do, the tyrants are those with the guns who want to impose their will on everyone else by ignoring the very system the founding fathers put in place to ensure that the people are represented.

The founding fathers were smart, they knew that a free country such as the one they were creating would lead to citizens hell bent on burning it down or who thought they were above the laws the people created and the only remedy for such people/groups was a response by a volunteer army controlled by the state consisting of ordinary citizens. State organized militias.

Holly fuck! My extreme example has become reality. Man I hate being right.

 

[nickqt]

We are fucked!



Holly fuck! My extreme example has become reality. Man I hate being right.

The problem isn't that bad people own firearms, because they always have. The problem is that not enough good people own firearms because they think firearms will make good people into mass shooters via osmosis or whatever. I've been saying here and elsewhere for years that decent centrists and liberals forsaking firearms is an own goal.

 

[gothuevos]

We are fucked!



Holly fuck! My extreme example has become reality. Man I hate being right.

Wow, you called it.

 

[ivwshane]

The average 2A supporter without a weapon is still more effective at defending people than any policy a progressive ever came up with.

This aged well.

When will the 2A supporters be defending people from the Trump Amin and his constitutional violations?