I Have No Respect for People in the Army

[moshquerade]

There are some opinions better left unsaid. OP... this is one of those things.

His thread title was such a blanket statement when there are people all over that don't deserve respect. I don't think the Army has corned the market on them by a long shot.

 

[ForumMaster]

i serve in the IDF. here, enlistment is not an option. everybody is drafted.

your army career (or navy/air force whatever) will be shaped by the people you server with. a lot of that has to do with the initial requirement that everybody undergoes.

rest assured that i'm pretty sure this is similar to the us army. you will have places with awesome people where you simply don't want to leave.

then, there's "the garbage pits". the places in the army for the people of lower standards. they exist everywhere. this is what the OP is talking about.
i specifically server in a technological unit of the army. every person their is great.

does that mean that every soldier is automatically a hero? no. but i respect the soldiers who server is more dangerous areas without question simply for what they do.

 

[geecee]

Have you ever been to NYC? It is littered with former soldiers, most of which don't have a single disability except laziness and the lack of will to learn, begging for coin for the next cigarette/booze.

Are you from NYC? I, most assuredly, am and have no idea where you get this from.

As for your arguments about motivations, rarely does anyone have a single, solitary reason for doing anything. Usually, people have a combination of reasons for their actions. While some may join for "action", they are probably also motivated by other things as well - desire to straighten out their lives, learn skills, get a paycheck, which have been discussed by many others here. To say that one joins for a single reason, regardless of intelligence and educational level, is a rather limited viewpoint.

While I have never served in the armed forces, I have several friends who have, and I have been in some online classes with at least a half-dozen or so more. Not all of these people have been officers, and I did not notice a substantial difference in attitude, demeanor or even intelligence between the ones who were and the ones who weren't. Some were deployed, and some were riding a desk in San Diego or somewhere. You can generalize on your experiences, and I will generalize on mine, which are that the people who are servicemen are not much different than those in any other profession. There are those who are smart, those who are not, and there are those that are aggressive and/or violent, and those that are not. They have my respect because they have chosen to serve, even if it was not their primary motivation.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Fine, some people who enlist are in it because they can play rough and still earn their bread.

However, they also endure extremely demanding training and deal with lots of pain and misery. They are very disciplined. They learn the value of a hard days work. They may go in as boys, but they come out as men. Many officers are college grads, and many soldiers and sailors go to college and are very successful after serving their tour.

Many of my my co workers who are better educated than I am, served the Navy, Marine Core, Army, or Air Force in their younger years. Sometimes they did it because it seemed the right thing to do, sometimes they did it because they weren't born with a silver spoon up their ass and it was their best option to get ahead, but all of them are people who have earned the respect of everybody in the office because of their hard work and dedication. I suspect they learned some of that work ethic in the forces.

So, in short, my opinion is this. Cadets are just regular people who want to play soldier. But when they become soldiers or sailors, they are disciplined men who have endured hardship and know true difficulty.

 

[Carousel]

I appreciate the thought out responses. Obviously this is a topic that many feel closely to. All I wanted to do was to garner some thoughts on the issue, and from what I can tell, many agree with my assessment (and many more don't!).

 

[EagleKeeper]

They volunteered to protect you so you can spout your opinions about them.

They didn't volunteer to protect me. They volunteered to earn a paycheck or see some of the world. Don't try to pretend it wasn't for selfish reasons.

Edit: Do I have to put a footer every time I generalize? I mean, it's fairly obvious.

Some, not most!

 

[irishScott]

Before I begin, let me say that the title can be a tiny bit misleading. I wanted to capture my general attitude on the subject as well as attention to the post. It's not that I have zero respect for people in the armed forces and that I hate them, but that I do not think they deserve the respect that people generally give them. I always hear - on the radio, television, and the general public, how we should be super-respectful and honorary of soldiers. It makes my stomach crawl when I hear soldiers being commemorated as if they joined the army to protect the nation from harm and bring peace to the world. Why do I feel this way? See below.

If you joined the army, you are most likely not the type of person who thinks with their head but with fists. You probably played Football in high-school, or some other type of violent sport, and have anger management problems. You chose not to study and as a result could not afford/had the desire to enter a college.

Most soldiers in the army joined because they are allowed to behave violently, legally, whilst getting payed. If they would have stayed in the the working class society, they would most likely end up unsuccessful.

Most, not all, army personnel do not fight because they want to help the nation. They fight because they love to fight. They are confrontational and desire action. It's like a license to kill.

That's why when I hear the respect they get for fighting, I cringe. These people risk their lives not for you, not for me, not for the country or world peace, but for themselves. They are violent and action-oriented people.

A simple analogy I just thought of is a Nascar driver. Their job is potentially fatal. They know what they are getting themselves into. But when they die you don't see the public appreciating their efforts. It's something they chose to do. Same with soldiers, they knew the deal, they did not fit well into society, and thus chose to fight.

I imagine many of you think I'm unappreciative and cruel for posting this. I actually LOVE the fact that people like this exist, I appreciate that they do what they do, even while I realize they do it more for themselves than for me, but I don't believe they should be praised the way they are today. Soldiers are not saints, they are just violent men who do what they love to do.

Obviously not every single man in the army is violent. Some are probably even educated, intelligent, college-material folks. I'm sure some join just to fight for what they believe in and to rid the world of injustice. But what I'm getting is that the majority, maybe 85% or so, do it because they have a lust to fight, to kill.

Oh, and this does not apply to people who were drafted or forced unwillingly to join the ranks. It applies only to those hard-knocks who joined on their own accord and that are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan...the middle east.

P.S.

No, I was never bullied by soldiers/grunts. No, my mother was not raped by an ex-marine. I have not had any negative experiences with these men. In fact, I have acquiescence's who want are in the army who I love to share a beer with. But they don't deserve the appreciation they get, that's all I think.

What to you guys think? Constructively.

I think you're stuck in the 70s when it was hip to call soldiers baby killers. Those people were idiots then, and you're being an idiot now.

 

[olds]

Blah, blah, blah...

Let me guess, 15 years old?

 

[Zeze]

This all the way.

I've worked with a LOT of people that have served and don't know many of them that ever shot at, let alone killed someone.

Only exception was a helicopter gunner from Nam days and that guy was fucked in the head.

My good buddy did his 4 years, was an officer, never saw a day of action on his tours and got out as soon as he was done.

It's been a great help for him in his education and career.

He's a high level director with 180 reports under him for a fortune 500 now.

A lady I worked with never even left the states in her 4 years.

Just curious. What exactly do they do in their 'tours' if there's no action?

It seems like my navy friend, all he did was travel all over the world for free. Why are they there in the first place and what is their supposed duty?

 

[Theb]

Wow OP, the more I read your shit, the more frustrating it becomes.

Don't get frustrated. Picture the type of person that decides they must inform the Internet on a topic they know nothing about and feel sorry for him.

 

[werepossum]

Okay, I've watched this thread for a bit, completely expecting to have to infraction/ban someone.


I think I can sum up the OP's feelings and make them sound a bit less trollish:
The OP believes, and probably correctly, that for the majority of those who join the Army, the *primary* motivator isn't to serve the country. I don't believe for a second though that what he suggests as a primary motivator is true, except for a small minority of enlistees. There are a lot of other motivators - family tradition, money for college, learn a skill, need more discipline, peer/family pressure, etc. Individually, each of these probably FAR outweighs his suggestion of it's people looking for a fight.


OP, how's this: "The primary motivator for the majority of enlistees in the Army isn't to fight for our country, our freedoms, and to serve. However, the media frequently treats this as the primary motivator and states that we should respect these men for this particular reason."

The problem is that this misses this point: for many (most?) - serving our country, fighting for our freedoms, protecting us is STILL a motivator for the majority of people in the Army.

Funny, I would have summed up the OP's feelings (glad you didn't say "thoughts") thusly:

I am awesome.

No one around me recognizes my awesomeness, except my mom and I suspect she's just saying that to inspire me to move out.

People who didn't recognize my awesomeness hurt and humiliated me, because they were threatened by my awesomeness.

It hurts and humiliates me when those who sign up to risk their lives for low pay on whatever whim the prevailing politicians dream up receive the respect I should get for my awesomeness.

Therefore I equate these people with all the other people who haven't recognized my awesomeness and hurt and humiliated me.

Judge people by what they DO*, not by whatever base motive you can assign them to make yourself feel superior. People serving in the military obvious want to (and should) receive benefits from their service, but it IS service. Each and every one of them is subject to being sent wherever he or she is needed, regardless of danger, discomfort, or personal desire. Each and every one of them is putting his or her country ahead of personal well-being and desires, because that is the first and foremost job requirement. Each and every one of them is deserving of your respect.

*For example, the OP is being a douche. Note that I do not speculate on WHY he is being a douche.

Hope that isn't an infraction deserving of a ban, but it needed to be said.

 

[zinfamous]

Better than average troll, but I know enough to not participate.

Just like when I saw this:

I am clearly more intelligent, educated, worldly and experienced than the artist, so I dont need to engage in a debate with him. Theres nothing he can tell me.

maybe so.

that could be a statement on how a front line soldier/marine is trained (the entire point of the first half of Full Metal Jacket), rather than a comment that "only idiots can be soldiers."

lose your individuality. join the hive. etc...

 

[mattpegher]

Nice job, turning a serious question into a troll post.

I agree, just because you join the military, doesnt mean you deserve some special treatment. The chance that the average military personnel will die or be seriously injured is low enough not to afford a great debt toward all who serve. All of the men in my family prior to me, served in the military. I considered it but financially it would have been a poor discision. My sister spent 2 years in Iraq, and my cousin is still there now.

On the otherhand, they do not need to be universally disrespected either. Your post was universally discriminatory. Sure there are some who fit your stereotype, and many who do not. Whether talking about race, sex or nationality, general stereotypes show a lack of knowledge about a group, a prejudice/hatred of the group and are usually clear in their intention to incite anger.

You do introduce an interesting psychologic phenomenon, that of population bias. The idea that a certain group will have a different set of characteristics than the general public due to pool from which they are chosen. I am sure you are correct that many characteristics differ between military personnel and the general public, however you have not studied the group sufficently to objectively list them. The US military has and publishes many of their findings, hiding some I am sure. However, like any group utilized to fulfill a task, the US military formost manipulates its population for control. They cannot allow individuals that refuse to be told what to do, to remain in the service. So although many of those you see may be full of bravado, most become controlled followers when prompted to by authority. Those who cannot usually find themselves discharged.

 

[wischeez]

You're a tool. Go tell your little whine to a live soldier. Troll......


I don't think they're saints or anything, but it takes more than what you have to do that job.

 

[wischeez]

My friend went to Navy after college.

He could not stand it. You know when you feel like everyone around you are fucking meathead simpleton idiots? That's what he felt, including his Sargent and all the vast lower-rank general populus grunts of the force.

I was not in the Navy, but I know they don't have sergeants.

 

[Firestorm007]

OP is most likely a panzy wuss and can't stand the fact the he is not man enough to be on the ARMY. Have a little respect junior, youre daddy should've beat you more as a kid.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

i agree with the op. there isnt anything heroic about putting on an american uniform, going to another country where you dont belong and murdering the residents because the us government tells you to. how would you feel if another country sent troops to your city and did that? youd be laying roadside bombs, sniping etc... too. wheres the sense of personal responsibility? we treat these people like heroes but they anything but that when they are in the field killing, bombing, raping and pillaging. america is only going to be able to get away with this for so long, eventually one of these pissed off people is going to get a wmd and the worlds biggest bully is going to get a taste of its own medicine.

the same thing goes for cops. people want to put them on a pedestal, but the truth is most cops are just violent loser dbags who spend most of their workday giving traffic tickets, stealing money from people for the government and plotting to rip off the taxpayer through overtime. if was funny to see that guy who got beaten to death the other day, his father was a cop and he was out there in the media whining like any other victim, calling them six cops who beat his son to death "rogues". six "rogues"?

 

[AreaCode707]

I think it's interesting that many people have referred to the OP as He. For some reason, my tendency was to assume She.

 

[HAL9000]

OP is most likely a panzy wuss and can't stand the fact the he is not man enough to be on the ARMY. Have a little respect junior, youre daddy should've beat you more as a kid.

your

Daddy's shouldn't beat kids. It makes them want to join the army some times.

 

[bfdd]

my issues with it comes with the "sacrifice". what sacrifice? their lives? they chose that when they chose their profession. what are they sacrificing? I don't get that. It's not like they're FORCED to sacrifice, they literally chose their profession, most never thinking "ill be the one giving up his life". So that's my thing on it. I have friends and family who serve in the military, I'm not disrespectful to people who are a part of it, I just don't understand why their choice to join the military is any more sacrifice than someones choice to work at mcdonalds. both are jobs, both were decisions made by the individual, who gives a fuck?

 

[OBLAMA2009]

my issues with it comes with the "sacrifice". what sacrifice? their lives? they chose that when they chose their profession. what are they sacrificing? I don't get that. It's not like they're FORCED to sacrifice, they literally chose their profession, most never thinking "ill be the one giving up his life". So that's my thing on it. I have friends and family who serve in the military, I'm not disrespectful to people who are a part of it, I just don't understand why their choice to join the military is any more sacrifice than someones choice to work at mcdonalds. both are jobs, both were decisions made by the individual, who gives a fuck?

i dont get that either. its just a job like any other. what about the guy who cut his finger making your sandwich at the deli? isnt he making a sacrifice to feed humanity? people in the military or who work for government dont contribute any more to society than anyone else, they just get huge pensions and free lifetime medical care as if they do

 

[Atomic Playboy]

my issues with it comes with the "sacrifice". what sacrifice? their lives? they chose that when they chose their profession. what are they sacrificing? I don't get that. It's not like they're FORCED to sacrifice, they literally chose their profession, most never thinking "ill be the one giving up his life". So that's my thing on it. I have friends and family who serve in the military, I'm not disrespectful to people who are a part of it, I just don't understand why their choice to join the military is any more sacrifice than someones choice to work at mcdonalds. both are jobs, both were decisions made by the individual, who gives a fuck?

When I start my job at McDonald's, there is no stipulation that I will stay in that job for a minimum of two years regardless of what they do to me. If I want to quit my job at McDonald's, I leave and don't come back. If I do that in the Army, I'm AWOL and subject to court martial and dishonorable discharge, a mark that can hurt me in finding another job for the rest of my life. And there's a very good chance in joining the Army that I am going to be sent overseas for a 12 month period into a war zone... but I don't specifically know where or when that will be. If any other job was going to send me overseas, they'd let me know exactly when, and I could quit at any time.

The Army is not like any other job where you have the freedom to quit at will. You become property of the US Army to use as they see fit for a period of several years. How anyone could compare that to a job at McDonald's is beyond me.

 

[datalink7]

i agree with the op. there isnt anything heroic about putting on an american uniform, going to another country where you dont belong and murdering the residents because the us government tells you to. how would you feel if another country sent troops to your city and did that? youd be laying roadside bombs, sniping etc... too. wheres the sense of personal responsibility? we treat these people like heroes but they anything but that when they are in the field killing, bombing, raping and pillaging. america is only going to be able to get away with this for so long, eventually one of these pissed off people is going to get a wmd and the worlds biggest bully is going to get a taste of its own medicine.

the same thing goes for cops. people want to put them on a pedestal, but the truth is most cops are just violent loser dbags who spend most of their workday giving traffic tickets, stealing money from people for the government and plotting to rip off the taxpayer through overtime. if was funny to see that guy who got beaten to death the other day, his father was a cop and he was out there in the media whining like any other victim, calling them six cops who beat his son to death "rogues". six "rogues"?

Yeah, all we do over there is rape and pillage. In fact, my normal breakfast was an Iraqi baby, medium rare. Had to have one before I went out on patrol.

 

[HAL9000]

Yeah, all we do over there is rape and pillage. In fact, my normal breakfast was an Iraqi baby, medium rare. Had to have one before I went out on patrol.

Quoted, knew it.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Does it really matter why they joined? Guess who's ass is going to be on the frontline protecting your sorry ass while you troll the forums if another country decided to attack us.

I couldn't give a shit less why they joined the military. All I know is there are people doing the jobs I don't want to while I live in happy land with my loved ones.

Ever wonder why you don't have a Somalian pirate looting your house and bending you over your kitchen table? Could it have anything to do with the protection the military is providing your sorry ass.

Ban this dumbass.