I have just come to an important realization

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: wyvrn
There were the typical wide range of responses in this thread. I thank you all for them.

I will just say a few things here to dispell some assumptions made by other posters. I am not an asshole I am actually a very nice guy and don't say much in class at all. I am a top notch student and make friends easily

The points I made in class were neccessarily about vague topics. For example, my Systems Analysis professor stated in a powerpoint slide (it was also in our book) that developing software solutions are more expensive than buying solutions off the shelf. The absolutist the way the point was made in both the text and in class bothered me, so I gave the prof and class an example of a software program one of my former employers bought that was total crap. The firm ended up using it's own solution, and the results were that it cost much less this way because the firm could adapt the software to the business. In my experience and research for another class, changing the business structure to match a commercially available software solution is in many cases more expensive than the development costs of a new program. I don't believe the text or the professor thought about this, so I wanted to share the point. My professor didn't argue specifically against my point, she basically gave me the "shrug off" and made some smart aleck comment. Seems like she wasn't open to new ideas after all, even though she makes a point of telling us we should participate more in class. Ha!

The school I go to is not backwater, it's the #6 research school in the US. In fact, one of our finance professors recently won paper of the year for his work on risk rates in the stock markets. I love this school for the fact the classes are challenging (read not watered-down) and the professors are all very intelligent.

Pingspike, that's a good point. I guess I always knew this subconciously, but it's disappointing to fully realize it. You would think that professors, being students themselves, would value looking at competing opinions and use them as an opportunity to teach more about a subject. But that doesn't seem to be the case in general. I do have a few professors that do like this kind of discussion in class, but they are in the minority.

This is an interesting discussion because I am considering going to grad school. I also have the option of working for 3-5 years and then starting my own business (which means I won't have time for school). I have to look at whether the learning experience in grad school is better or the same as one of the factors of my decision. Sometimes I enjoy just going to the library and reading articles on the Internet more than I do attending class and being "lectured" to.

BTW, before any more assumptions are made, I am an honors student (as of now, summa cum laude) and not a slacker.

But you're still wrong.

buying software IS cheaper than developing it. Only niche applications/middle ware are custom developed.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: wyvrn
There were the typical wide range of responses in this thread. I thank you all for them.

I will just say a few things here to dispell some assumptions made by other posters. I am not an asshole I am actually a very nice guy and don't say much in class at all. I am a top notch student and make friends easily

The points I made in class were neccessarily about vague topics. For example, my Systems Analysis professor stated in a powerpoint slide (it was also in our book) that developing software solutions are more expensive than buying solutions off the shelf. The absolutist the way the point was made in both the text and in class bothered me, so I gave the prof and class an example of a software program one of my former employers bought that was total crap. The firm ended up using it's own solution, and the results were that it cost much less this way because the firm could adapt the software to the business. In my experience and research for another class, changing the business structure to match a commercially available software solution is in many cases more expensive than the development costs of a new program. I don't believe the text or the professor thought about this, so I wanted to share the point. My professor didn't argue specifically against my point, she basically gave me the "shrug off" and made some smart aleck comment. Seems like she wasn't open to new ideas after all, even though she makes a point of telling us we should participate more in class. Ha!

The school I go to is not backwater, it's the #6 research school in the US. In fact, one of our finance professors recently won paper of the year for his work on risk rates in the stock markets. I love this school for the fact the classes are challenging (read not watered-down) and the professors are all very intelligent.

Pingspike, that's a good point. I guess I always knew this subconciously, but it's disappointing to fully realize it. You would think that professors, being students themselves, would value looking at competing opinions and use them as an opportunity to teach more about a subject. But that doesn't seem to be the case in general. I do have a few professors that do like this kind of discussion in class, but they are in the minority.

This is an interesting discussion because I am considering going to grad school. I also have the option of working for 3-5 years and then starting my own business (which means I won't have time for school). I have to look at whether the learning experience in grad school is better or the same as one of the factors of my decision. Sometimes I enjoy just going to the library and reading articles on the Internet more than I do attending class and being "lectured" to.

BTW, before any more assumptions are made, I am an honors student (as of now, summa cum laude) and not a slacker.

Did you just post your bio and resume?

 

[Balt]

I basically sold out in all my classes and made my papers agreeable to the prof's point of view.

Try to think of it as a game.

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

well my current High School english teacher says "you are not here to learn, your hear for my entertainment..."

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE
well my current High School english teacher says "you are not here to learn, your hear for my entertainment..."

we see that.

 

[SoyBoy004]

Originally posted by: pyonir
I got lower grades in a sociology class because i didn't agree with some of the prof's extremely liberal views. I learned in that class to just go with the flow.

same with me in my philosophy class.

 

[wyvrn]

Originally posted by: spidey07

But you're still wrong.

buying software IS cheaper than developing it. Only niche applications/middle ware are custom developed.

Not always. In fact, that is a topic we are discussing in one of my other classes. It's a blanket assumption that was long thought to be true, but many software solutions aren't flexible enough to fit a wide range of companies. Generally software will fit 80% of the cases out there, but some businesses have significant deviations from the norm in their business models and really profit more from a more custom-designed software. I agree it's MAINLY true, just not ALWAYS true. But that doesn't fit neatly on a powerpoint slide, and requires the professor to actually teach a topic instead of just presenting generalizations.

 

[wyvrn]

Originally posted by: gopunk

it's the #6 research school in the US

research in what?

That's an overall ranking. I forgot who did the ranking, but several of my professors have repeated it. The school was originally set up by Texas Instruments as a research college, and only recently did they begin accepting freshman and sophomores. We have some of the best brains in the country here Unfortunately they don't always make the best teachers. I'm still happy with my school of course, but I just wish they would emphasize more student involvement and be open to discusssions in class.

 

[nageov3t]

I hate people like that.

4 years of college, and I never bs'd on a paper or just wrote what the professor wanted to hear. I'd rather get a C for defending my beliefs than get an A for pretending to believe something that I didn't.

fortunately, I had real professors who saw differing opinions as an avenue toward open discussion.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I hate people like that.

4 years of college, and I never bs'd on a paper or just wrote what the professor wanted to hear. I'd rather get a C for defending my beliefs than get an A for pretending to believe something that I didn't.

fortunately, I had real professors who saw differing opinions as an avenue toward open discussion.

which will be quikly beaten out of you when you enter the job market.

 

[DrNoobie]

My Bio professor was a complete moron and half the class knew more than him. Whenever I, or another student, would correct him, he would deduct 10 points from our next exam stating, "I'm right because this is my class, and in my class my word is God." We quickly learned not to correct him, except for one student who ended up having to drop the class because the deductions led to him having a 0 by midterm. I hated that guy.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Most teachers these days are more interested in teaching students what to think, rather than teaching them how to think. Usually it is because the teacher is also incapable of thinking for themselves.

 

[wyvrn]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: wyvrn
There were the typical wide range of responses in this thread. I thank you all for them.

I will just say a few things here to dispell some assumptions made by other posters. I am not an asshole I am actually a very nice guy and don't say much in class at all. I am a top notch student and make friends easily

The points I made in class were neccessarily about vague topics. For example, my Systems Analysis professor stated in a powerpoint slide (it was also in our book) that developing software solutions are more expensive than buying solutions off the shelf. The absolutist the way the point was made in both the text and in class bothered me, so I gave the prof and class an example of a software program one of my former employers bought that was total crap. The firm ended up using it's own solution, and the results were that it cost much less this way because the firm could adapt the software to the business. In my experience and research for another class, changing the business structure to match a commercially available software solution is in many cases more expensive than the development costs of a new program. I don't believe the text or the professor thought about this, so I wanted to share the point. My professor didn't argue specifically against my point, she basically gave me the "shrug off" and made some smart aleck comment. Seems like she wasn't open to new ideas after all, even though she makes a point of telling us we should participate more in class. Ha!

The school I go to is not backwater, it's the #6 research school in the US. In fact, one of our finance professors recently won paper of the year for his work on risk rates in the stock markets. I love this school for the fact the classes are challenging (read not watered-down) and the professors are all very intelligent.

Pingspike, that's a good point. I guess I always knew this subconciously, but it's disappointing to fully realize it. You would think that professors, being students themselves, would value looking at competing opinions and use them as an opportunity to teach more about a subject. But that doesn't seem to be the case in general. I do have a few professors that do like this kind of discussion in class, but they are in the minority.

This is an interesting discussion because I am considering going to grad school. I also have the option of working for 3-5 years and then starting my own business (which means I won't have time for school). I have to look at whether the learning experience in grad school is better or the same as one of the factors of my decision. Sometimes I enjoy just going to the library and reading articles on the Internet more than I do attending class and being "lectured" to.

BTW, before any more assumptions are made, I am an honors student (as of now, summa cum laude) and not a slacker.

Did you just post your bio and resume?

Uh no. The only thing from this post on my resume is my school standing. I didn't write that "I'm not an asshole" on it, though I bet it would get a few laughs if I did

 

[clamum]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Doing good at school is all about marketing. Who is your target audience?........the PROFESSOR. Having an opinion is fine and I strongly advise it because if people didn't think for themselves everyone would be liberal pussies (but that is a whole other discussion) but remember to just regurgitate whatever the Prof says when he is in earshot and you gradepoint will stay high.

I always think for myself and I would probably be classified as a "liberal pussy." HA!

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: pyonir
I got lower grades in a sociology class because i didn't agree with some of the prof's extremely liberal views. I learned in that class to just go with the flow.

WARNING - Blatant generalization to follow:

Conservative teachers are much more likely to let you ACTUALLY voice your own opinion than liberal teachers. Why? Because just as liberalism is mainly a feel-good ideology. It's more about ideas than substance. "Everyone should have health care that wants it! We're not concerned if everyone else's quality of health care decreasing, we just want everyone to have health care and the logistics of it aren't important because it's the 'right' thing to do." Stuff like that. They let their emotions dictate their positions rather than logic, so they're usually more emotionally attached to their viewpoints. Conservative ideologues are more logical, and thus aren't as quick to think that you HAVE to be wrong if you disagree with them.

Disclaimer:
There are exceptions to every rule.
I'm just a man with an opinion.
I'm talking about ideologies not political parties.

 

[flyfish]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE
well my current High School english teacher says "you are not here to learn, your hear for my entertainment..."

we see that.

HA ha!

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: her209
English teachers are the same way. If you have a different writing style than what they like, then you are marked down. :|

Definitely. I barely passed English 2 years ago, and this year, I'm getting a 90 - but I don't think my writing style has changed at all.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: pyonir
I got lower grades in a sociology class because i didn't agree with some of the prof's extremely liberal views. I learned in that class to just go with the flow.

WARNING - Blatant generalization to follow:

Conservative teachers are much more likely to let you ACTUALLY voice your own opinion than liberal teachers. Why? Because just as liberalism is mainly a feel-good ideology. It's more about ideas than substance. "Everyone should have health care that wants it! We're not concerned if everyone else's quality of health care decreasing, we just want everyone to have health care and the logistics of it aren't important because it's the 'right' thing to do." Stuff like that. They let their emotions dictate their positions rather than logic, so they're usually more emotionally attached to their viewpoints. Conservative ideologues are more logical, and thus aren't as quick to think that you HAVE to be wrong if you disagree with them.

Disclaimer:
There are exceptions to every rule.
I'm just a man with an opinion.
I'm talking about ideologies not political parties.

I had one conservative professor that was really cool, he insisted we call him by his first name, had no problems if we disagreed with him, and encouraged us to interrupt him if we wanted to him to clarify a point, thought he had made an error, etc., rather than bring it up later when we had moved onto something else. It was a great class, I was sorry when it ended.

Later I had a public speaking class, and the professor was, while not diametrically opposed in type, at least a flaming liberal jackass who used every opportunity to cram his views down your throat. I did learn a lot of good stuff from him though, when he wasn't waxing poetic about evil, white Republicans.

Most instructors I had were middle of the road, except the guy teaching economics. Not sure what his ideology was, he was just a fscktard. I actually called the Chancellor about him, he was such a jackass.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: loki8481
I hate people like that.

4 years of college, and I never bs'd on a paper or just wrote what the professor wanted to hear. I'd rather get a C for defending my beliefs than get an A for pretending to believe something that I didn't.

fortunately, I had real professors who saw differing opinions as an avenue toward open discussion.

which will be quikly beaten out of you when you enter the job market.

never. my model for living is Howard Roark, from The Fountainhead

I don't argue with my bosses over trivial stuff, but if I ever disagreed with them on any major matter, I wouldn't hesitate to speak up. my current bosses don't really count, as I never see or talk to them, but previous bosses have respected me because of it (especially since I always make clear that I always have the company's best interests in mind). but even if they took it personally... what's the worse that happens? they fire me?

meh.

I'd never want to work for someone who was so egotistical that they weren't willing to consider the valid opinions of others.

 

[EmperorOfIceCream]

I have had such a different experience than yours wyvrn. Many of my professors specifically ask for viewpoints that contradict theirs, some of them even beg for contradicting viewpoints! I don't go to an 'elite' school, I go to a high quality state school that you've probably never heard of unless you're from this state. I was talking with my professors about a similar subject recently, and one of the ideas brought up is that at elite schools more teachers tend to have big egos. This translates into the teachers wanting all their students to be exactly like them - which obviously can lead to problems such as the one you described.

I want to go to an excellent grad school, but knowing what I do now, its going to be a lot harder finding one that fits for me. On the other hand, I do enjoy getting into 'intellectual' arguments with my profs

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: EmperorOfIceCream
I have had such a different experience than yours wyvrn. Many of my professors specifically ask for viewpoints that contradict theirs, some of them even beg for contradicting viewpoints! I don't go to an 'elite' school, I go to a high quality state school that you've probably never heard of unless you're from this state. I was talking with my professors about a similar subject recently, and one of the ideas brought up is that at elite schools more teachers tend to have big egos. This translates into the teachers wanting all their students to be exactly like them - which obviously can lead to problems such as the one you described.

I want to go to an excellent grad school, but knowing what I do now, its going to be a lot harder finding one that fits for me. On the other hand, I do enjoy getting into 'intellectual' arguments with my profs

funny. that's the *exact* same experience I had with my profs in college. I avoided the path of the North Eastern ivy league school and went to a high quality state school too.

when I was looking for colleges during senior year of high school, I visited both state schools and the "elite" private institutions. while I got into some pretty good private colleges (among them the college that the movie PCU was based on. hehe). but I found the atmosphere at the state schools to be a lot more conducive to learning, like a smaller student:teacher ratio, and younger, more open-minded, professors. my highschool friends gave me a lot of flack for not going to a private school, but in the end, I know I made the right choice.