I have joined Nvidia's Focus Group.

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I think that if we have to wait for something to happen before you step down, it'll be too late. It's better to be safe than sorry.

Actually it's better to trust people and give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than be paranoid and judgmental.

While in principle you're right - that's rarely how humans work. You know that just as well as I do.

But by all standards Keys been a good moderator here. So what other standard should he be judged by?

Historical standards that happened here previously. Like I said, you aren't going to simply sweep peoples' perception under the run by saying so.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Dragon5152
It's been a while since I posted anything serious on these forums. I think this needs attention. I'm not taking a sides here, just voicing my personal opinion in the matter. I've only been a member here for a little over 2 years but I've seen a lot.

I'm not going to question your moderation thing, I agree with derek in it although I'm not happy about it, I can live with it . However, I'm more upset that you still have elite member status keys.

An elite member is suppose to stand out in the crowd and be totally impartial to anything. They are suppose to help whenever help is needed. I'm not arguing that you don't do this, you probably do.

However, the fact that you sold yourself out to this "focus group" throws you right back in the crowd and as a consumer, I have to assume you will be biased now.

now that he's a focus group member, everyone here can weigh his forum posts with that in mind.

I think that statement says enough to justify the following:
Take this post however you want, take it as a flame, take it as whatever, I really don't care. Just ditch that elite member status of yours.

And if I handle this as it should be handled (successfully), should my status be changed to "Uber Elite"? I mean, fair is fair, right?

In bold above: Define "sold yourself out". A statement like that indicates that you really aren't clear about what the focus group is for. It has been explained. A few times.

I sold myself: To provide needed feedback to Nvidia about problems/issues people are having?

I sold myself: To evaluate hardware and software?

I sold myself: To be a part of a group that concentrates on making things better for consumers?

I sold myself: To knock down the level of FUD in these forums because of increased knowledge of products?

I am not promoting anything, in fact that is highly discouraged. Unwanted by Nvidia.
You needed to know. So now you know.

 

[agr8man]

As an NVIDIA Focus Group member, I am given free graphics cards and motherboards by NVIDIA Corp.

Please!! send me one!!
Is that real?if it is you are really a lucky person

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And if I handle this as it should be handled (successfully), should my status be changed to "Uber Elite"? I mean, fair is fair, right?

You only get Uber Elite if you get to bypass NDA's and provide solid info on next-gen products. :beer:

Otherwise you just get to be you.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Historical standards that happened here previously. Like I said, you aren't going to simply sweep peoples' perception under the run by saying so.

Each to their own, but I see nothing fair and reasonable about holding Keys accountable for the actions of other people in similar positions.

In the time to come if his behavior appears "Nvidia Fanboi" in nature then complain and I'm sure he'd eventually be removed. But to expect him to be removed for doing nothing other than embrace an opportunity. Granted potential conflicts exist and he his been upfront and honest about them from what I've read.

I love this forum and have lurked here for a long time. And I think the people who moderate do a great job and should be supported for the work they do, rather than cast down at the first suspicion they aren't being 100% fair and balanced.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Historical standards that happened here previously. Like I said, you aren't going to simply sweep peoples' perception under the run by saying so.

Each to their own, but I see nothing fair and reasonable about holding Keys accountable for the actions of other people in similar positions.

Indeed... but human nature is to assume guilt by association. Either way... I'm happy with the situation. This thread at least provides some good postcount.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Indeed... but human nature is to assume guilt by association. Either way... I'm happy with the situation. This thread at least provides some good postcount.

Without a doubt!

 

[Demoth]

Just what is being stated as how this would work out is kind of grey to my eyes and will tarnish this site.

First of all, any arm of Nvidia's tech support should go through Nvidia directly or to an official Nvidia site. There is no reason Nvidia needs to build up their support into fan sites.

As Virge stated, we will be seeing situations where you'd have Rollo spreading his 'point of view' with the Anandtech GPU mod backing him up based on hardware no one else has access to test. Therefore, we may get FUD and propaganda that can not be disputed. From a normal member, fine. From the GPU mod, not so fine. Again, just the mod title alone gives authority, even when acting as a normal poster.

Very few are attacking Keys personally. We are concerned for the integrity of our favorite fan site and forums. We are afraid that even if things go smoothly here, the rep hit alone would be irreversible. Also, there is a fear this is a first step down a slippery slope of a heavy Nvidia corporate influence at Anandtech.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
But again, you are assuming, assuming a whole ton. It's not about what "side" people are on, but how they conduct themselves in these forums.

Above bolded: ATI fanboys being asses; NVIDIA fanboys being asses

You see these words I have bolded here? That is what I act on. Not because of their video card preferences. If ANYONE behaves like asses, they will be dealt with. What you say "could" happen, or "might" happen, hasn't happened, but you're speaking as if it is some sort of unavoidable destiny. I make my own destiny, Virge. I know the difference between right and wrong, have common sense, and most importantly, I know my own self and what I can and cannot handle. This, I can handle even if you and others, if in a similar position, feel you could not. All I can say is, watch and learn. And I mean that most respectfully.

Ultimately Keys you're only human. We all screw up from time to time (damn those flaws) but at this point the stakes are too high. You've been a fantastic mod and I know you don't like being judged on what could happen, but if something were to happen then it would be too late.

And that's my $0.02, please don't forget to tip the wait staff on your way out.

 

[Wreckage]

Grats Keys.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: lopri
On the other hand, I can't help but think why NV had approached him.

If I could wager, it would be a result of nRollo. Before Rollo was found out, he was loved on these forums by many, including Keys, who was pretty 'close' with him. When nRollo was found out, Keys really didn't speak out to my knowledge like most others did. So, I believe that Keys and nRollo are still buddies, and that nRollo was involved in getting Keys this position. I'd wager a big chunk of money on it too. To bad there really isn't a way to prove it one way or the other - not that it matters.

Congrats. Enjoy the free hardware.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Ultimately Keys you're only human. We all screw up from time to time (damn those flaws) but at this point the stakes are too high. You've been a fantastic mod and I know you don't like being judged on what could happen, but if something were to happen then it would be too late.

And that's my $0.02, please don't forget to tip the wait staff on your way out.

You need to step back and get some perspective. This is a thread about Keys becoming an Nvidia focus group member.

Nobody is going to beaten, become abducted by aliens, or starve to death. If somebody screams, "Nvidia FANBOI!@#" there won't be bodies stacked ten deep in the streets because we didn't stop Keys when we had the chance.

 

[Demoth]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Ultimately Keys you're only human. We all screw up from time to time (damn those flaws) but at this point the stakes are too high. You've been a fantastic mod and I know you don't like being judged on what could happen, but if something were to happen then it would be too late.

And that's my $0.02, please don't forget to tip the wait staff on your way out.

You need to step back and get some perspective. This is a thread about Keys becoming an Nvidia focus group member.

Nobody is going to beaten, become abducted by aliens, or starve to death. If somebody screams, "Nvidia FANBOI!@#" there won't be bodies stacked ten deep in the streets because we didn't stop Keys when we had the chance.

True, the only life and death issue here is Anandtech maintaining itself as a relatively trustworthy place to get information.

Maybe the reason so many are being vocal now rather then waiting to see how things go is some of us feel by then it might be too late. It is pretty obvious Keys will go out of his way initially to appear totally unbiased and might even go as far as to show favortism to ATI.

However, once entrenched with a Nvidia fan club and working in conjunction with Rollo, when the chips are down and ATI is making a comeback with their 48XX series, then we could see this forum degrade into a pro Nvidia, anti-ATI fanclub like so many other sites have degenerated into (either favoring one or the other).

I'm done speaking my piece on this matter. I'll wait and see and if things don't work out, i'll just move on as I have done so many times in the past. Hopefully Keys is honorable enough to give up free early releases rather then compromise Anandtech. I guess time will tell. Regardless, Anandtech is diminished in my eyes.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Demoth

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Ultimately Keys you're only human. We all screw up from time to time (damn those flaws) but at this point the stakes are too high. You've been a fantastic mod and I know you don't like being judged on what could happen, but if something were to happen then it would be too late.

And that's my $0.02, please don't forget to tip the wait staff on your way out.

You need to step back and get some perspective. This is a thread about Keys becoming an Nvidia focus group member.

Nobody is going to beaten, become abducted by aliens, or starve to death. If somebody screams, "Nvidia FANBOI!@#" there won't be bodies stacked ten deep in the streets because we didn't stop Keys when we had the chance.

True, the only life and death issue here is Anandtech maintaining itself as a relatively trustworthy place to get information.

Maybe the reason so many are being vocal now rather then waiting to see how things go is some of us feel by then it might be too late. It is pretty obvious Keys will go out of his way initially to appear totally unbiased and might even go as far as to show favortism to ATI.

However, once entrenched with a Nvidia fan club and working in conjunction with Rollo, when the chips are down and ATI is making a comeback with their 48XX series, then we could see this forum degrade into a pro Nvidia, anti-ATI fanclub like so many other sites have degenerated into (either favoring one or the other).

I'm done speaking my piece on this matter. I'll wait and see and if things don't work out, i'll just move on as I have done so many times in the past. Hopefully Keys is honorable enough to give up free early releases rather then compromise Anandtech. I guess time will tell. Regardless, Anandtech is diminished in my eyes.

You have a helluva lot of nerve Demoth. In no way shape or form have I given a reason to call my "honor" into question. You have for absolutely NO reason. This isn't George Orwell's 1984 where the thought police are out to get anyone with an impure thought.
This is exactly why in my first post I said, "Think before you post.". In one felled swoop, you have charged me with "appearing to be totally unbiased" which translates into me being a phony, and "honorable enough" as if what I have done is a crime. I'll take the rubs Demoth, but these statements of your are out of hand. Looking forward to proving you incorrect in every aspect. But I know I'll be grinding my teeth a bit every time I think of the things you said in this post. (As a member).

 

[Demoth]

Keys, I was not insulting you. If this was most anyone else, I would not be giving them the benefit of a possibility of being neutral while a member of Nvidi'a focus group. I am also not implying your less honest then any other person here, including myself. If I was getting free pre-released stuff from any company, I would be biased for them and feel some sort of obligation to reciprocate. Even without being in a focus group, I know I would not have the personality to make a good mod, and I give you credit for that. My concerns stand for any person in the same position and are for the overall vitality of Anandtech, not a personal knock against you.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
But I know I'll be grinding my teeth a bit every time I think of the things you said in this post. (As a member).

I've enjoyed posting on a fair number of forums and every time I see a mod resign there is almost always some reference to, "I'm fed up with this nonsense." It's depressing to see the anonymous jackassery of the internet.

Everything I know about computers, a hobby that I enjoy immensely, has been learned by reading various forums and benefiting from the experience of other people. None of us would have that resource without the efforts of the various admins and moderators who weed out the worst garbage and keep the place up and running.

Personally I understand the desire for this place to remain "neutral" without the appearance of bias toward toward any company or corporate sponsorship. This is a great forum and I think we should trust the people running it to be more informed than the members at large in regard to what crosses the line.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: DerekWilson

Originally posted by: BFG10K
As a mod I fully respect Derek's decision.

As a poster I am not happy with this. IMO the most important attribute of a mod is total neutrality, both through actions and through public perception.

As a focus group member paid to promote a company, neutrality is simply not possible as there's always a conflict of interest.

Hi guys. I just want to chime in and say that some of you are really blowing this out of proportion.

Keys let me know about this when it happened. He's letting all of you know now as well. While any of you can take or leave his statements on the forum (while factoring in his NVIDIA relationship), his ability to moderate is not in question.

While I believe keys will still be a good source of testing and information, I know some of you will feel the need to distrust what he says. This is fine -- go find another source to confirm or refute and/or test things for yourself.

But his opinions or affiliations have nothing to do with moderation. Lashing out against AMD fans or being lenient on NVIDIA fans will not do anything but stir up problems both for keys and for NVIDIA. No one wants this, and I strongly believe that keys can remain fair in his moderation.

Rollo was vetoed as a moderator candidate because he consistently lied to members and moderators about his affiliation and manipulated people through deception. He was a viral marketer whether he wants to admit it or not, and AEG was a problem. This is not the same as the current NVIDIA focus group. His current participation with NVIDIA's focus group had nothing to do with him not being a moderator. His history as a member here is what sealed the deal on that one.

NVIDIA focus group members do not exist to promote NVIDIA or sell NVIDIA products.

Focus group members are actively discouraged from doing any type of marketing. Relaying press releases and information is one thing, but they do not want their focus group members to act as or be perceived as shills.

That's tough for Rollo because he absolutely did behave as a shill. He promoted NVIDIA products while conceling and denying his relationship with them, and it doesn't matter whether anything he said was what he really felt or not -- his behavior was reprehensible.

I'd take 1 keys over 10000 Rollos.

I had hoped that the time keys has been here, the work he's put into the forums, the excellent job he's done as a moderator, and the fact that he is being open and honest about the situation would go a long way with all of you. If it doesn't, let me add once again that if there is any problem with keys as a moderator, please let me know immediately and I will absolutely deal with it.

Again, NVIDIA focus group members do not exist to promote NVIDIA or sell NVIDIA products. This is not what NVIDIA wants them around for.

AEG -- different story. This is not that.

keys is still keys ... his affiliations don't matter, only his actions. his history here does a good job of illustrating who he is -- don't throw all that out because of this.

now that he's a focus group member, everyone here can weigh his forum posts with that in mind. but it really doesn't have anything to do with moderation.

I'm very glad I went back a few pages and saw this, and here it is again just in case some of you missed it. Derek, thanks for saving me a lot of typing and from getting banned as I probably would have been a lot less diplomatic . Nicely said. Guess that's why you're the Editor. :thumbsup:

 

[Martimus]

I don't know Keys very well, but I can see a conflict of interest being the Video moderator. I am only writing here, because I completely disagreed with a former moderator of another section (not video), but I always stayed silent because he was always so adamant about his advice. I knew through personal experience that his advice was bad if certain common conditions were present, but I never voiced them because I feared reprisal from him. For that reason I don't like having a strongly opinionated moderator.

edit: Now that I have read through some of the pages of responses, I don't want people to think I am trying to attack Keys. There are a lot of feelings that have been hurt here, and that is a shame. I just wrote here because I wanted to give a real world example as to why people in control should try to seem impartial, or at least not have a strong opinion. I don't want to call out the moderator, or name the topic, because then it would be obvious who I was talking about; so please don't ask.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Martimus
I don't know Keys very well, but I can see a conflict of interest being the Video moderator. I am only writing here, because I completely disagreed with a former moderator of another section (not video), but I always stayed silent because he was always so adamant about his advice. I knew through personal experience that his advice was bad if certain common conditions were present, but I never voiced them because I feared reprisal from him. For that reason I don't like having a strongly opinionated moderator.

You'll never need to have that fear with me, Martimus. I am here *for* the members, not just for myself (as I enjoy this forum as much as anyone). When I post as a member, that is how I will continue a conversation/debate/argument. You will never see me posting in a debate, about the debate, as a moderator (unless the debate gets particularly ugly and offensive, or if it goes off topic). That is my job. So if I am in a heated debate with another member, I cannot, and would never, utilize moderator privileges to gain an advantage. In fact, as a rule of thumb here among the mods, it is not recommended to moderate a thread that I am actively involved in. It *is* recommended to let another moderator handle the situation.

The bottom line really is, that I am a pretty easy going guy who truly enjoys getting along with everybody. It's really easy to approach any situation civilly. If you look at the sticky at the top of this forum, you will see the things that can invoke moderator actions. Things that won't be tolerated. You can have any kind of conversation in here without violating any of the guidelines. It's not that hard.

Sorry for the long winded post here, but I just wanted to make sure you knew where I stand on moderator privileges and how much I respect them, and you, and all other members here.

 

[Martimus]

Sorry for the long winded post here, but I just wanted to make sure you knew where I stand on moderator privileges and how much I respect them, and you, and all other members here.

I appreciate the response, and I appologize for extending this discussion longer than it had to be.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Martimus
I don't know Keys very well, but I can see a conflict of interest being the Video moderator. I am only writing here, because I completely disagreed with a former moderator of another section (not video), but I always stayed silent because he was always so adamant about his advice. I knew through personal experience that his advice was bad if certain common conditions were present, but I never voiced them because I feared reprisal from him. For that reason I don't like having a strongly opinionated moderator.

You'll never need to have that fear with me, Martimus. I am here *for* the members, not just for myself (as I enjoy this forum as much as anyone). When I post as a member, that is how I will continue a conversation/debate/argument. You will never see me posting in a debate, about the debate, as a moderator (unless the debate gets particularly ugly and offensive, or if it goes off topic). That is my job. So if I am in a heated debate with another member, I cannot, and would never, utilize moderator privileges to gain an advantage. In fact, as a rule of thumb here among the mods, it is not recommended to moderate a thread that I am actively involved in. It *is* recommended to let another moderator handle the situation.

The bottom line really is, that I am a pretty easy going guy who truly enjoys getting along with everybody. It's really easy to approach any situation civilly. If you look at the sticky at the top of this forum, you will see the things that can invoke moderator actions. Things that won't be tolerated. You can have any kind of conversation in here without violating any of the guidelines. It's not that hard.

Sorry for the long winded post here, but I just wanted to make sure you knew where I stand on moderator privileges and how much I respect them, and you, and all other members here.

Hey keys - do you guys just get hardware with no strings attached in the end? IE: What happens when you get "new" hardware, do you have to send the old stuff back? eBay?

I really could use a new motherboard... I'm done "evaluating" my M2N-SLI Deluxe...

 

[CrispSandwich]

I haven't posted very often on these forums but have been using them for useful information for quite a while. I have always found Keys posts to be honest and fair as a mod and before that.

I really don't think anyone has anything to fear.I think the guy has too much respect for both anandtech and himself to let this effect how he does his job as moderator.

 

[Hauk]

KEYS, keep in mind..

In life, there are positive and negative people. If you watch them carefully, you'll see they go about life with consistency, seeing the side of their choosing. Be it person, place, thing, or idea, a negative person is going to see the negative before they see the positive.

It's pointless to waste further energy defending what's done. The pesimists are out there in droves. It doesn't matter to them, it's a negative regardless. Leave the variables to the decision makers. And don't back down. Not kissing ass; I just know you can't please all people all the time.

 

[Stoneburner]

I was wondering why my detailed thread on why radeon should have 4 times more points in scrabble than geforce was deleted. . .

 

[Blacklash]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
I was wondering why my detailed thread on why radeon should have 4 times more points in scrabble than geforce was deleted. . .

That's an easy one. Read the ToS-

"These Forums reserve the right to edit or delete any message for any reason whatsoever, at our sole discretion."

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2147026&enterthread=y