I have endeavored to fix another device I know nothing about (water heater help)

[phucheneh]

Well, 'nothing' might be a bit strong. But I've never really messed with them, except for draining.

Generic electric with-tank model.

Hot water in my house has been getting sketchy. Just about runs out after a ten or fifteen minute shower. The volume of water seems low, and it seems slow to come back. I realized the other day that not only is the water cold, but the pressure goes down.

By my logic, that says it's not related to the heating element, but to the flow of water. Inlet and outlet are the same size (look like it, at least)...ideally, cold water should come into the heater as fast as the hot water leaves, right?

So I'm thinking, of course, first thing to do is drain it. Cut the breaker, turned the supply off, opened some faucets, connected a hose to the drain valve and opened it.

I got maybe a quart out. I think there's so much shit at the bottom that it's actually blocking the drain valve. Is she dead, Jim?

A wrinkle: the water pressure in my area has been highly erratic. While I like a good high pressure shower, I'm not enthused when it comes about suddenly out of a head that never used to supply that kind of pressure.

Possibly related, the pressure relief on the heat shows signs of very slow leakage. Basically has a white stalactite forming inside of it.

I honestly dunno what to do next other than jam something up the drain to try and clear it. Which I'll probably have to do repeatedly. And make an enormous fucking mess in my garage. The water heater is, of course, all the way at the back, with shit stored all around it, and my copious amount of tools, equipment, and parts at the front (for cars). I don't need a flood right now...

 

[Number1]

How to Flush Out Scale & Debris from a Hot Water Heater

Maybe?
Also look around on that site for other issues that might apply to your heater.


New water heaters are fairly inexpensive.

 

[herm0016]

another issue is that the dip tube breaks off. this tube is on the cold water side and makes it so that the cold water goes to the bottom of the heater, and the hot goes out to your shower. without the tube the cold will mix more, and will create a little current in the tank that goes right to the hot water out when you are using it for an extended time, like taking a shower.

 

[olds]

Jam something up to try to dislodge debris. You might be able to get the hose bib off but if the unit is that full of debris, I'd be afraid I'd break something taking it off.
Test BOTH elements.

 

[olds]

another issue is that the dip tube breaks off. this tube is on the cold water side and makes it so that the cold water goes to the bottom of the heater, and the hot goes out to your shower. without the tube the cold will mix more, and will create a little current in the tank that goes right to the hot water out when you are using it for an extended time, like taking a shower.

 

[phucheneh]

My relief valve has no downspout. Is that, like, a codes issue, or just a 'hey we put this here because it's a good idea' kinda thing?

Also the drain is fuckin' plastic. Piece of crap. I should just check on a new water heater...isn't installation pretty basic if you've got the plumbing in place (not that I couldn't figure out how to stick pipes together)? Just the water connections and three wires, or am I undercomplicating here?

 

[runzwithsizorz]

How old is it? If it's 12+ I would consider replacing. The relief valve can be removed, and cleaned, but not that
expensive to just replace. Does the water pressure seem to fluctuate, or run slow using just the cold taps? By code, your tank should be elevated
which would allow you to place a large bucket under the drain valve. When it comes to, "jamming something up the drain", I have found weed whacker
line works quite well.

 

[Red Squirrel]

When you let the hot water flow how is the flow rate? If it's barely coming out then it could be a flow problem, but if it's coming out at full pressure, then it's not. But while you're doing that, check to see how long it stays hot for and if it's not long it could very well be a broken dip tube.

You could take it apart at the top and look inside to see if it's a straight run down. Probably will need a small flashlight or something.

If it's old it may be worth just replacing it though, especially if it's electric since they're cheap anyway. Gas ones are more expensive.

 

[DrPizza]

The water won't drain out of the tank unless you open a hot water outlet someplace in the house. E.g., turn the hot water on in the shower (none will come out of the shower.) Otherwise, it forms a vacuum inside the tank, preventing it from draining.

Once it's drained, you may want to keep the elements off, but with the drain valve open, flush it out with more water (turn on the inlet water.) It might also be worth checking out the anode if it's getting older.

If you flush it annually, and replace the anode when it gets low, I can't see a reason that a hot water tank couldn't last you 40 years.

 

[phucheneh]

Yeah, I had two faucets, a kitchen and a bathroom, open. I believe they are the closest to the water heater.

I got it draining. This shite valve on the bottom...I can't even find a pic of something similar...is all plastic/nylon. Male outlet on the bottom, and what I noticed was another male outlet on top...has a plastic cap and a rubber washer, with a hole in the middle with a plastic nub sticking out. You turn a little auger-shaped piece of black plastic with a slotted screwdriver.

Anyhow, I just took the cap and valve out and put another hose on it, then started giving it blasts of water through the inlet. Draining. Slowly. I'll probably have to keep 'stirring' it with fresh water.

The damn orifice in this valve I'm griping about is only like...I dunno, less than a quarter inch. I tried some coat-hanger action through there, but I guess it's true what they say: right tool for the right job. And since there was no fetus in there, I gave up and devised the above method.

 

[MonKENy]

how old is it?

 

[phucheneh]

Also, no, the thing is sitting on the garage floor. I also noticed the wonderful wiring job...none of that fancy flex conduit, just jam the wires in the hole.

I think I've got enough bendy action left in the copper lines to elevate it at least a few inches. What's the best way to prop it up? ...would 2x4's be a bad idea? Tank should only get to 130, and even if it malfunctions, I gotta figure lighting wood on fire with a tank of water is difficult.

 

[phucheneh]

how old is it?

Not a clue.

As far as the questions about pressure, the answer is that it's fine...until you get to the typical 'dammit woman, you used all the hot water' scenario, at which time there is barely any flow.

I'm thinking it fills, the water gets used, then sediment is blocking it from refilling fast enough to keep up the water supply. I don't think it's a broken whatsajigger tube, as that would equal adequate, albeit cold, supply.

 

[phucheneh]

Also, I'm tickled that home repair threads get good replies so quickly. I could go to one of the tech subforums and ask PC questions, and I'd probably have to wait longer and be less likely to be helped.

I picture a bunch of Tim Allens sitting around, and it's like 'OH SHIT, WATER HEATER THREAD *grunt grunt grunt grunt*'.

Except some of you guys actually know what you're doing. And probably snort substantially less blow.

 

[MonKENy]

lol. There should be a date somewhere on the heater itself. Look at all the labels. or pull us a model # and I can probably find out

 

[vailr]

The magnesium sacrificial anode has probably disintegrated into a gooey blue jello-like layer at the tank bottom. Probably best to just replace the tank with a similar sized unit, so that there'd be minimal plumbing alteration work to re-do.
Check youtube for servicing videos. A professional plumber's labor charge would likely cost more than the price of a brand new water heater from Lowe's or Home Depot.

 

[MonKENy]

yeah honestly its prob best to just replace it at this point.

 

[SparkyJJO]

another issue is that the dip tube breaks off. this tube is on the cold water side and makes it so that the cold water goes to the bottom of the heater, and the hot goes out to your shower. without the tube the cold will mix more, and will create a little current in the tank that goes right to the hot water out when you are using it for an extended time, like taking a shower.

I think this is the problem with the heater in my rental. As I take a shower I have to keep adjusting the hot water over 10 minutes otherwise it keeps cooling off. If I leave the valve position where it is when I'm done and next day turn the water back on, the water is scalding hot and I have to turn it towards cooler again to start with, then gradually work my way back towards hot. It is really annoying.

 

[phucheneh]

Holy fuck me in the goat ass christ.

No, I think the water heater is okay. Once I got stuff flowing, I didn't get rust and scale and shit. Nope.

Here is a small sample of what I got (...note that fuse, penny, and can top are for size comparison only):

I think I know what the problem is...the inlet pipe was sitting in a pile of aquarium rocks. I know some of that is deposits of minerals. But I don't think any fuckin' quartz formed in my water heater (or whatever it is; geologists chime in).

I think we have some serious issues with our water supply. I'm sure if the valve orifice was bigger, I would've gotten bigger stuff out (up to the size of the, what, 5/8" inlet?).

 

[fjmeat]

wow

 

[phucheneh]

This explains why we never got the claimed life out of our on-faucet water filters...though I never pulled any rocks out of the housing. I would say that stuff is too heavy to get pumped up through the faucet...but the line going to water heater starts at the floor and comes straight up. I guess it has to go somewhere.

I need to watch more of that Gold Rush show and learn how to build a trommel or shaker table to filter my water.

 

[Red Squirrel]

WTF lol, that is like the most random stuff to find in a water heater. haha. A fuse? lol

Probably somehow got in there during installation and it worked it's way to the outlet.

That or people at the water treatment plant are dropping random things in the water basins though I doubt most of that stuff could travel through the 1/2 copper pipes in the house. Even if it's 3/4 I can't see it fit.

 

[PowerEngineer]

I need to watch more of that Gold Rush show and learn how to build a trommel or shaker table to filter my water.

Okay, that made me LOL. Thanks!

I had gathered from earlier postings that you are on some sort of city water system. If so, then I'd say you might have a bone to pick with their water department.

If this is going to continue, then some sort of in-line water filter might not be a bad idea.

P.S. -- DrPizza might not appreciate the "goat" references :awe:

 

[olds]

WTF lol, that is like the most random stuff to find in a water heater. haha. A fuse? lol

Probably somehow got in there during installation and it worked it's way to the outlet.

That or people at the water treatment plant are dropping random things in the water basins though I doubt most of that stuff could travel through the 1/2 copper pipes in the house. Even if it's 3/4 I can't see it fit.

Wow

 

[phucheneh]

...note that fuse, penny, and can top are for size comparison only

First thought was 'quarter.' Didn't have any. So 'penny' plus other things on my shelf in the 'random stuff I've taken out of my pockets at the end of a day' pile. My analytical mind said 'put three things of known size around there so distance from camera lens doesn't distort size perception, either.'

But I still find the rocks to be weird. Either there is an active leak in water supply piping, or there was a large repair done at some point (haven't lost water service in recent memory) where a shitpile of rocks fell into what they were working on and they just didn't give a shit.

Actually...come to think of it...I know where I recognize that amalgamation of small brown rocks and quartz-like pebbles from...you find that at the local man-made reservoir