- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
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the average american barely knows what goes on in this country, why should they be expected to know what goes on in europe/africa/asia/south america? do you really know what goes on outside of your narrow focus of interest? probably not.
I think what 'anti-American' people mean is that they do not want anyone to interfere about their business.
So if you were Chilean you'd be willing to die because the US threw a dictator at the head of your country instead of a president, and you'd still refrain from blaming the US or their foreign policies?
Does this have any credibility to it? Hasn't the USA done a lot more good than bad? I think I'm a bit naive, but the USA can't be all that horrible. I totally agree that many Americans, including me, are quite ignorant of world affairs and many Americans do take for granted what they have, but are other countires angry that we are more ignorant than them? I think the USA generally helps many countries and should not be despised by so many. Maybe it's just our biased history textbooks, but I haven't heard of too many things where the USA intentionally caused immense pain, maybe except slavery. Please someone give me an unbiased opinion.
yet they gripe about how uneducated we are in world affairs. if they don't want us to interfere, why do they want us to pay attention?
I don't get too offended because those who says these things often are confronted with what appears to be extreme arrogance on this board. We Americans have a lot to be proud of but it is often *expressed* in a way that seems reckless or lacking in consideration for others' views. I don't think that's really the case, but I think the rest of the world sees it that way. So it does not surprise me when people point that out.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,849
- 6,386
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" What we've got here is...failure to communicate."
The problem is one of perception and emotionalism. You perceive it as "US bashing", most doing it perceive it as "criticizing" or "opposing". The "European"(actually those outside the US, although some US members fit the desciption) are reacting to what is perceived to be a homogeneous view coming from the US. Of course there are a wide gamut(sp) of opinions held by Americans, but from an outsiders perspective how does one separate a domestically popular administrations official stance on various issues?
Emotionalism: This is the big problem, people get emotionally attached to things. Whether it be Country, political party, social/economic/political philosophy, or some other person/place/thing, when an emotion becomes involved every voice of opposition becomes personal to varying degrees. If one's opinion just grates at another, it becomes too easy for one to just lash out rather than actually consider another's position. Emotionalism is evil bad! It is why a Palestinian straps a bomb to their chest and blows up a bus, it's why an Israeli kills innocents in order to kill one baddy, it's why a whole nation throws it's support behind one man hell bent to commit some of the most repugnant crimes in history, it's why "witches"/"infidels"/"heathens"/"insert others here" are put to death, etc. Emotionalism has only one nemesis, logic/reason.
If we all posted/responded with the intention of using logic/reason, the flames would automagically disappear!
Unfortunetly, we are frail weak human beings, prone to error and highly susceptible to the lure of emotionalism. Hell, just a few days ago I got carried away by emotionalism and said some stupid(although not inflammatory)things and I try to avoid it at all costs. Emotionalism is a drug that doesn't diferentiate between "good feelings" or "bad feelings", each are equally as intoxicating and addicting, this is why basing any opinion, value, or agenda on it leads to very bad things. It's not entirely hopeless though, if we at least strive to avoid letting the demon of emotionalism take control, it is possible to actually learn and progress our opinions and our social circles.People from europe can say whatever they want.
Free speech is for everyone. As for them talkin s**t about the USA.
Thats fine. More green budd for me. Thats what happens when you smooke that hash bulls**t.
peace
Free speech is for everyone. As for them talkin s**t about the USA.
Thats fine. More green budd for me. Thats what happens when you smooke that hash bulls**t.
peace
I'm saying, if you'd bother to get your head out of your @ss, that ONE action does not and SHOULD not determine the course of history for a nation. Don't even tell me that you think the US meddled more in Chilean politics than they did in South Korean politics. and yet, STRANGELY the South Koreans overcame all of it. did they complain sure some did, but did they allow it to cripple them?? no. did the Chileans, apparently it did. SO STFU, unless your willing to read at least parts of my response.
Ehhhh... free speach was something common in europe before america was ever discovered by the westerns...
You have GOT to be joking here... please?
I never realized that the common man could speak out against 16th Century European warlords and/or monarchs without fear of reprisal.
I guess you learn something new every day.
I'd love to read more on this subject, can you recommend any hard copy books or websites?
Linflas
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2001
- 15,395
- 78
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Funny thing but I do not recall that Chile was under some tremendous yoke of poverty prior to the election of Salvadore Allende. I do recall that they in fact had one of the longest running democracies in Latin America. Allende was in the tail end of his term and his policies had in fact hurt rather than helped the countries economy. You are correct that we should have kept our nose out of it but Allende was hardly the savior of Chile you are making him out to be.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,504
- 20,110
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Really? Which monarchy allowed free political speech against the crown? Snap, I'm constantly amazed at how often you come back and display your ignornace after being owned in thread after thread after thread.
Freedom of speech, especially political speech, was anathema to EVERY government in Europe up to, and after the American revolution. NO European or British monarchy allowed speech against the royal family or government. If it did, it did so by privilege specific to the person, not as a common and protected right. EVERY country had sedition laws pertaining to speech that were ultimately interpreted by the monarch. WHY do you think this freedom was held so dear by our Founding Fathers?
You obviously are not capable of any sort of intelligent and courteous communication. You remind me why I stopped exchanging ideas in Off Topic a long time ago. Guess things haven't changed.
It's still pretty funny that you bash yourself US foreign policies by saying the US did even more damage in S-Korea than in Chile.
[irony]Considering how things are wayyyyy better now in the Middle East since G. Bush is intervening[/irony], I think you'll understand there is place for worry.
To my knowledge, Chile was in a terrible economic situation prior to Allende's election. Allende did a lot of changes to revive the Chilean economy and he was very succesful for some time. The economy stalled though and with the CIA spreading propaganda to oust Allende it didn't help at all. Allende was very determined to put his country back on track and he did everything in Chile's best interests. We can hardly say the same about Pinochet.
I found a very interesting http://www.geocities.com/educhile_1970s/Allende.html on the matter with nice photos for those interested.
Speaking of the CIA eliminating democratic leaders to protect US interests, I just got another example of it in another thread, on a matter I knew nothing about (in Iran). Look for Squalish2357's post:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=870080&STARTPAGE=3
I sincerely think the US is a great country in many aspects. But foreign policies is not one of these aspects. With such examples of staged assasinations on democratic leaders (and replacing them with dictators) only for the sake of the almighty dollar, I do not consider the US as "the leader of the free world". I wish the ONU was a much stronger entity...or that we'd encounter aliens like in Star Trek just to realize that we're complete idiots to be killing each others on our small planet.
Hi. This is my first post on Anandtech, so please don't flame too much. I am an american, but have been living in Europe(Germany) for the past 5 months (luckily I go home in 1 more month). I love America, but the longer I have been away from it, the more I realize that America isn't exactly what I thought it was.
When I first got here to Europe, it really interested me to talk to the locals about America, but it was hard for me to understand why they were so critical of what the US did. After all, we helped them out both during and after WWII, we give aid all over the world, and hey, were just good people.
Slowly, I am starting to realize, that alot of the help we give, is for our own good, rather than for the country we are supposedly helping. We (The US) is constantly helping in overthrowing governments, not because it is for the good of the people, but to get someone in power who will be friendly to US interests. And mostly, the US acts as though it is "above the law". We are so powerful, why should we have to listen to what the rest of the world is saying. For example, Bush has pretty much sayed he will go to war with Iraq, regardless of what the UN says. Then again, Bush would probably go to war with Iraq regardless of what the people, or congress, say if he could. That and I think media coverage is more biased in the US than the people really want to admit. Afterall, we are pretty self centered, and care more about being able to afford a good car and having cheap gas than what is going on in the rest of the world. No, I don't have proof of all of this, but with some research, and an open mind, anyone can figure this out.
I want to reiterate that I love America, I can't think of a country that has done more good in the recent years than the US. During WWII we did some great things, especially afterwards with the Marshal plan. However, we all need to remember that the US along with every other country in the world has done some bad things. The government is no better than the people that run it. We keep referring to ourselves as the world's "policeman", but we need to be careful that we don't become/aren't already the world's "bully".
America has every right to protect its self interests, but not at the expense of the rest of the world.
As far as Anti-American posts - I think that is one of the best parts about being an American. That people have the freedom to state their disagreements with the government/people in an open forum without fear of being arrested, tortured, or maltreated. No government is perfect, and without somebody willing to stand up and say what the problems are, a government will easily become very corrupt and evil. However, the part I don't like is that some of the anti-american stuff I read is not true, misleading, or unbelievable and simply written to bash america, and it is hard to know is this a lie, or did my government really do this. At the same time, many pro-american posts are even more misleading written by an ignorant person who just wants to keep the status quo, or worse, by someone who really doesn't care about what is going on in the world, but jumps in with some sort of a post that states if someone disagrees with us we should go over their and kick their a@@. Sometimes, I just don't like the posts, because they are true, and America really isn't as perfect as I wish it were.
When I first got here to Europe, it really interested me to talk to the locals about America, but it was hard for me to understand why they were so critical of what the US did. After all, we helped them out both during and after WWII, we give aid all over the world, and hey, were just good people.
Slowly, I am starting to realize, that alot of the help we give, is for our own good, rather than for the country we are supposedly helping. We (The US) is constantly helping in overthrowing governments, not because it is for the good of the people, but to get someone in power who will be friendly to US interests. And mostly, the US acts as though it is "above the law". We are so powerful, why should we have to listen to what the rest of the world is saying. For example, Bush has pretty much sayed he will go to war with Iraq, regardless of what the UN says. Then again, Bush would probably go to war with Iraq regardless of what the people, or congress, say if he could. That and I think media coverage is more biased in the US than the people really want to admit. Afterall, we are pretty self centered, and care more about being able to afford a good car and having cheap gas than what is going on in the rest of the world. No, I don't have proof of all of this, but with some research, and an open mind, anyone can figure this out.
I want to reiterate that I love America, I can't think of a country that has done more good in the recent years than the US. During WWII we did some great things, especially afterwards with the Marshal plan. However, we all need to remember that the US along with every other country in the world has done some bad things. The government is no better than the people that run it. We keep referring to ourselves as the world's "policeman", but we need to be careful that we don't become/aren't already the world's "bully".
America has every right to protect its self interests, but not at the expense of the rest of the world.
As far as Anti-American posts - I think that is one of the best parts about being an American. That people have the freedom to state their disagreements with the government/people in an open forum without fear of being arrested, tortured, or maltreated. No government is perfect, and without somebody willing to stand up and say what the problems are, a government will easily become very corrupt and evil. However, the part I don't like is that some of the anti-american stuff I read is not true, misleading, or unbelievable and simply written to bash america, and it is hard to know is this a lie, or did my government really do this. At the same time, many pro-american posts are even more misleading written by an ignorant person who just wants to keep the status quo, or worse, by someone who really doesn't care about what is going on in the world, but jumps in with some sort of a post that states if someone disagrees with us we should go over their and kick their a@@. Sometimes, I just don't like the posts, because they are true, and America really isn't as perfect as I wish it were.
sometimes they have a point. first off even if the u.s. did a lot for them in the past, it does not make us totally fault less, and if they say something about one of our faults, i dont think its something they just cannot say at all. its just criticism and if you want to get better as a person or country or whatever you need to accept criticism.
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