InflatableBuddha
Diamond Member
- Jul 5, 2007
- 7,416
- 1
- 0
I agree with you that critical thinking and problem solving skills are vitally important in the working world, and in many hobbies. While math can help some people learn these skills, there are other subjects that serve the same purpose.
I truly believe that different people are "wired" differently, and perform better in certain areas at the expense of others.
As a personal example, I was a very hard-working student throughout high school and university. I earned As in English and History throughout high school as I have well-developed linguistic skills. Even in university, I maintained a B+ level in courses which depended heavily on essays.
In comparison, I was a "B" student in math up until my senior year of HS, when I tanked. Despite a lot of hard work and tutoring, I simply could not figure out math at a Grade 12 level. I barely passed. I also took physics, and barely passed.
I largely took social science courses in university, but I considered biopsychology in my freshman year. I took intro biology and did well, but I suffered badly in 100-level finite mathematics. I simply couldn't do it, despite my efforts. It was the only university course (actually the only class ever) that I failed.
Conversely, there are people who excel in math and science but cannot argue a position in an essay, develop an understandable set of instructions or write eloquent letters. I don't fault them for this; it is simply not what they are developed to do well.
I work with engineers and software developers as part of my work as a technical writer. While they are brilliant people, problem solving different ways to accomplish tasks, they generally struggle to communicate their solutions clearly to non-engineers. They are system-centric rather than user-centric, they write in passive voice, and they struggle to write concisely. Hence, I solve the problem of communicating these solutions clearly to users. It's a different type of problem solving and no less important than problem solving derived from mathematics.
You make very key points, and you illustrate well what I inadvertently left out of my post; that is, math is not the only tool that can be used to learn and fine tune critical thinking skills.
It's funny that you mention software development. My life in the corporate world has centered around software development, and I'm currently running my own software consulting firm. My liaison at my largest client is a developer in her late 40's / early 50's. She's not a very good developer, but that's mostly because she hasn't kept up with technology. However, she can think through a puzzle very well and keep her head around the bigger picture. BUT, ask her for specifications or an informal email describing what something should do, and it all goes sideways. She writes the way we developers assemble puzzles in our heads and keep the pieces ordered; unfortunately, that makes for a piss-poor means of communicating.
So I've seen what you describe first hand: those with excellent critical thinking ability, but not necessarily the complete tool set necessary to be effective. I've been witness to serious communication problems between technical people. Many times developers can't even communicate amongst themselves. Their heads are so wrapped around *their* vision/understanding of a problem that they overestimate their colleagues' understanding of the problem, or they fail to see that there are multiple perspectives. It's actually been one of the most frustrating aspects of my job, and one of the reasons I chose to exit the field: it's just too hard to try to get a grown adult to adapt better thinking habits. Similar challenges are to be expected in the classroom, but the problems are smaller, more linear, and frankly, much less complicated. Plus, there's the notion that the students are still somewhat pliable
.
InflatableBuddha
Diamond Member
- Jul 5, 2007
- 7,416
- 1
- 0
Great examples; I understand your frustrations exactly. It's tough enough to get developers to communicate with me and my fellow writers, but I have also heard similar second-hand stories about communication issues between developers.
Bottom line - as we both know, there are often multiple solutions or approaches to a problem, and it is really frustrating when someone thinks there is only one correct solution.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,866
- 31,364
- 146
Only if they use British English. It's not like non-English languages pluralize "math" in their native languages. So, it's only the British-speaking world and those that learn English from some crusty old Brit that speak this gibberish.
THERE IS ONLY ONE MATH!!! :|
- Oct 27, 2007
- 17,009
- 5
- 0
- Oct 27, 2007
- 17,009
- 5
- 0
Originally posted by: jersiq
Maybe as well as someone in an Economics class.
Damn irrational English language :|
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
It's unfortunate that you hate math so much that you refuse to see its usefulness in many other fields. Equally, or perhaps more unfortunate is that so many people suck at math that they can't apply math to their fields. You mentioned cooking, so I'll give you an example: Last fall, I made a shitload of venison summer sausage from a deer I butchered. The instructions were pretty simple - starting at the one hour point, stick a thermometer into the summer sausage every 15 minutes, then every 5 or 10 minutes when it got closer to whatever the magic temperature was; it needed to be within a degree or so. Too cool & it would spoil right away, too hot & it would be like rubber. The total cooking time was expected to be several hours long. I, not wanting to waste a lot of time, applied some calculus to the problem. I used Newton's Law of Cooling (found as an example in just about any calculus textbook. Based on the initial temperature, and the temperature an hour later, I was able to correctly predict exactly when to take it out & have it within a degree of the desired temperature.
While perhaps your teachers didn't inspire you to use math, or even see its usefulness, my students gained a pretty strong appreciation for the subject. I don't care what field you're in - if you need to maximize or minimize something - those two keywords would instantly trigger the response in my former students "Hmmm, if I could model the problem mathematically, this would be a calculus problem." As I live in a farming community, it's no surprise that some of my former stand-out students - a couple of them valedictorians - go to college to study fields related to agriculture. A couple of these students had no problem getting into Cornell. They've reported back to me that the amount of mathematics that could and is applied to agriculture as amazing. Farmers - calculus.
You don't HAVE to apply the tools of mathematics to most fields, but for most fields, it's quite arguable that those who do apply more mathematics have a greater chance of being more successful than the average person in their field.
datalink7
Lifer
- Jan 23, 2001
- 16,765
- 6
- 81
I don't know why Trig/Pre-Calc kicked my ass. I took Algebra 1 and got an easy A in it. Then I took Trig/Pre-Calc 3 times and got a D -> C -> B and said that's enough math if it took me that long to just get a B. Maybe now that I'm older I'd understand better.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter