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I have a Honda Civic w/ a wheel prob, can you help me?

E

EY2K

Golden Member
Ok, here's the deal. I own a 98' Honda Civic DX hatchback that was given to me by my father as a high school grad gift. Now 30,000 miles later, after all the routine scheduled maintenance and oil changes my car's steering wheel decides to vibrate very badly in the 70-75mph and 80-85mph ranges. Anything before, after and in between and the steering wheel is fine!

Before you jump to ANY conclusions, let me give you a quick history of the wheels on my car since they've been through a lot.
1) I had a pretty minor incident where I executing a right turn, was getting sleepy, and over-estimated the amount that I needed to turn so I bumped into the curb pretty hard with the front-passenger side wheel. If you know Civics, you know that they ride low and they have small wheels so it doesnt take much curb to f* em up. Regardless, I didn't think much of it, nothing happened from what I could tell, backed up, and drove away. I was feeling really stupid in the process.
2) One day on my drive to Best Buy to buy a CD, I was falling asleep at the wheel (mind you this was in the evening after a heavy meal that my mom cooked). I was doing about 50mph on the frontage and basically lost it (aka dozed off) and slammed right into the curb, passenger side. In the process, I blew out both tires on that side of the car and f*ed up both rims. Cost a pretty penny from the dealership to replace, and my dad was plenty pi$$ed.
Thank god no other cars or ppl were involved or got hurt in either incident.

BTW the car was purchased new and actually had to be delivered from San Antonio since the Mcallen dealership didnt have any Civic Hatchbacks w/ automatics.
Now assuming that the rotation and wheel balancing has been done on this car when the passenger side wheels were replaced. Why is the car steering wheel doing this? I don't notice any pull on the wheels.
This problem cropped up about 2 months ago, but it did not happen immediately after the work on the wheels had been done.

Now here's the real deal. I went to NTB (Nat'l Tire & Battery), and asked em how much a front wheel alignment would cost me. The sales guy seemed really friendly and immediately asked me what kind of car I drove. I told him, and then he proceeded to tell me that I needed to get a 4 wheel alignment done. I looked at him in disbelief, but he told me that all later model car esp. Honda Civics must have 4 wheels done because of some stupid camber? bar on the rear wheels. He proceeded to explain how the rear wheels could also be slipping and blah blah. I couldn't catch it all since he was speaking greek to me. I know computers but I know JACK about cars.
I asked my friend, and he said that that was total B$ and all I needed was front wheel alignment since my car IS front wheel drive. Who is right?
Also, I read this article, and this article has me thinking it could be something else besides an alignment.

I'm sooo confused, and I know a lot of Anandtech ppl KNOW cars. Can you help me out here, cuz I feel really like a SOL. I don't want to spend mucho money on this.

1) Do I need the alignment?
2) If not, what do I need to do to make the damn steering wheel from vibrating so badly (and NO holding the wheel hard as I can doesnt work! and NO I wont drive any slower than 70 when the speed limit is 70!) 😀
3) Is NTB a reliable outfit? I live in Austin, TX so if anyone has any recommendations please do so! Feel free to recommend some places regardless of where you live.

THX!!!
[edited to reflect that no other parties were involved.]

PS - Sorry for long post, but I wanted to give you all the details, and I want this solved ASAP cuz it's been really bugging me.
 
if you had both wheels on a side replaced, and it was expensive, they probably did the alignment then. Because Civic wheels are pretty cheap. I messed one up once when I ran over a giant piece of concrete in the road and the rim was like $50 to replace, plus labor.

Get a front and if that doesn't fix it, go back for a rear. But I might get the front alignment done somewhere else, cause these people might want to "prove" they're right by not doing a good job on the front.
 
When you blew the 2 passenger tires, did you get just those replaced, or did you replace all 4? If you have 2 new tires and 2 old tires, that might be the problem, esp if the tires don't have the exact same tread pattern. The alignment may also be screwy. I'm in agreement to get a front-end alignment and see how it goes first.
Are all the tires the same size?
You might also be having some problems with tie rods...
 
thanks soo much for replying!!! so you're pretty sure its caused by mis-alignment? did you read that link i posted? also, you think NTB is somewhat shady? why should i go do the 2 wheel see if it works then might have to go back for the rear wheel? BTW the 4 wheel costs $59.99+ tax.
 
when honda replaced the tired they put the exact same new ones in their place. The same Dunlops! Yes it was very expensive ~200 for the work to be done. So Im think re-balancing, tire rotation was done. Like I said it didn't happen right after the work they did. Keep the replies coming guys! I need sooo much information! Thanks! 🙂

[edit What are "tie rods" and are they expensive to replace? edit]
 
It's late, and that thing is long, so I only read the beginning, but getting the wheels balanced and aligned will probably fix your problem.
 
Typically wheel alignment problems will not cause vibration problems. Alignment issues will cause very fast and/or unusual tire wear, and may or may not cause a pull, and may or may not cause the steering wheel to be off-center. Many front wheel cars do have a four-wheel alignment adjustment, and exactly what that consists of will depend on the car (some have a rear toe angle adjustment, some have rear camber, and some have both). My recommendation would be to have the alignment done by a shop that doesn't charge you if it's not needed (don't assume that it's been done already unless you actually have a printout).

Vibration is caused by the wheels' centers of gravity being slightly off (or by the tire itself being out of round), and vibration problems generally manifest themselves with the symptom that you are describing: Vibration occurs only at certain speeds. I would suggest that you get the front wheels balanced, and also while you're at it, check all four tires for signs of tire seperation (tread and belts coming apart causing bubbles to form- dangerous because they can burst causing a blowout, annoying because they cause vibration).

A few years ago, I sold tires for Wheel Works.

-j
 


<< when honda replaced the tired they put the exact same new ones in their place. The same Dunlops! Yes it was very expensive ~200 for the work to be done. So Im think re-balancing, tire rotation was done. Like I said it didn't happen right after the work they did. Keep the replies coming guys! I need sooo much information! Thanks! 🙂

[edit What are "tie rods" and are they expensive to replace? edit] >>



Did they replace all 4 tires? If you have 2 new tires and 2 half-worn tires, that could be a problem...
The tie rod (I'm no mechanic, so I may be somewhat off) is what connects the steering system to the wheels. When the tie rod ends become loose, damaged, or poorly lubricated, you can get some shimmy going on, too. I dunno how much yours are to replace. I got one replaced on my '94 escort it was about $85.
My steering wheel shook, too. The problem was a result of 1 oddball tire and the bad tie rod. The guy at Sears told me it was the alignment, but after getting the tie-rod and new tires, the shimmy disappeared.
Then again, the price you say for 4-wheel alignment isn't that much.

 
Typically wheel alignment problems will not cause vibration problems. Alignment issues will cause very fast and/or unusual tire wear, and may or may not cause a pull, and may or may not cause the steering wheel to be off-center. Many front wheel cars do have a four-wheel alignment adjustment, and exactly what that consists of will depend on the car (some have a rear toe angle adjustment, some have rear camber, and some have both). My recommendation would be to have the alignment done by a shop that doesn't charge you if it's not needed (don't assume that it's been done already unless you actually have a printout).

Vibration is caused by the wheels' centers of gravity being slightly off (or by the tire itself being out of round), and vibration problems generally manifest themselves with the symptom that you are describing: Vibration occurs only at certain speeds. I would suggest that you get the front wheels balanced, and also while you're at it, check all four tires for signs of tire seperation (tread and belts coming apart causing bubbles to form- dangerous because they can burst causing a blowout, annoying because they cause vibration).

A few years ago, I sold tires for Wheel Works.
The guy at NTB quoted me at $59.99 for a 4 wheel alignment which doesn't seem as bad as I originally thought. I'm assuming that these same ppl would inspect my tires for separation and bubbles or could I do it? How would I do it?

Did they replace all 4 tires? If you have 2 new tires and 2 half-worn tires, that could be a problem...
The tie rod (I'm no mechanic, so I may be somewhat off) is what connects the steering system to the wheels. When the tie rod ends become loose, damaged, or poorly lubricated, you can get some shimmy going on, too. I dunno how much yours are to replace. I got one replaced on my '94 escort it was about $85.
My steering wheel shook, too. The problem was a result of 1 oddball tire and the bad tie rod. The guy at Sears told me it was the alignment, but after getting the tie-rod and new tires, the shimmy disappeared.
Then again, the price you say for 4-wheel alignment isn't that much.
They only replaced the busted tires and rims, and supposedly rotated and balanced them. Would a place like NTB inspect the "tie rod"?

BTW I will go to this NTB place again tomorrow and get them to look over my car and get some more info from these wankers. Im assuming that they are going to try to sucker me into a mess-load of crap I won't need for a Honda, but we shall see. In the meantime, I value all your advice and information as I am lost when it comes to automobiles. 😉
 


<< They only replaced the busted tires and rims, and supposedly rotated and balanced them. Would a place like NTB inspect the "tie rod"? >>


I suppose they can inspect the tie rods. Apparently a loose or damaged tie-rod end can prevent them from doing the alignment--that's what happened for me, at least. They went to do front-wheel alignment after replacing the tires and found they couldn't do it b/c the tie rod end was loose.
 
if the tie end is just loose, what do they do? do they replace it or try to fix it and charge you up the azz for it?
 


<< if the tie end is just loose, what do they do? do they replace it or try to fix it and charge you up the azz for it? >>


I had mine replaced--only $85, not too painful. I don't think they bother trying to fix them.
 
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