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I have 40 processes running...

I like to get as much performance in my rig (at the sig). Hopefully can grab some precious ram out of it. But...I would like to know if there is any guides at all to do some tweaking in the ms.config or something in similar. Anyone knows?


btw,

I got a laptop back from bestbuy (after repairs) and surprised it has 30 processes running instead of 48 :Q ! I'm amazed, so I would like to do the same for my gaming rig 😛


Any replies are appreciated.
 
Hmm well it CAN make quite a bit of difference if you don't have a lot of RAM - as long as it keeps you from swapping to hdd it's good. What the thread doesn't mention is that the less you have running, the more stable your sys will be 🙂 I usually have ~25 processes running at bootup.
 
Originally posted by: ariafrost
Hmm well it CAN make quite a bit of difference if you don't have a lot of RAM - as long as it keeps you from swapping to hdd it's good. What the thread doesn't mention is that the less you have running, the more stable your sys will be 🙂 I usually have ~25 processes running at bootup.


25 processes :shocked:

 
Originally posted by: ariafrost
Hmm well it CAN make quite a bit of difference if you don't have a lot of RAM - as long as it keeps you from swapping to hdd it's good. What the thread doesn't mention is that the less you have running, the more stable your sys will be 🙂 I usually have ~25 processes running at bootup.

Link?
 
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: ariafrost
Hmm well it CAN make quite a bit of difference if you don't have a lot of RAM - as long as it keeps you from swapping to hdd it's good. What the thread doesn't mention is that the less you have running, the more stable your sys will be 🙂 I usually have ~25 processes running at bootup.
Link?
Common sense?
 
Originally posted by: STaSh
RAM is cheap. If you are counting processes you either a) have OCD or b) need more RAM


Talk is cheap, but money is money. And money is hard to come by when you are a full time student working 3 days a week.
 
no, it's not commen sense...some of those can ADD to stability (such as S/W firewall, virus software, etc)

Originally posted by: STaSh
RAM is cheap. If you are counting processes you either a) have OCD or b) need more RAM

lol...I might sig that
 
Originally posted by: nweaver
no, it's not commen sense...some of those can ADD to stability (such as S/W firewall, virus software, etc)
Those don't add stability, they add features. Something like the RPC service adds stability, and there aren't that many that are actually required for stability.

Originally posted by: STaSh
RAM is cheap. If you are counting processes you either a) have OCD or b) need more RAM

lol...I might sig that
RAM is only one factor. Open programs or processes use much more than just some RAM.
 
What the thread doesn't mention is that the less you have running, the more stable your sys will be

My machine has 115 processes currently, by your count doesn't that mean it should be crashing any second now?

Those don't add stability, they add features. Something like the RPC service adds stability, and there aren't that many that are actually required for stability.

And if you're machine is infected with a virus, it's not going to be very stable is it? Sure, you can get around the necessity of a anti-virus with a healthy dose of common sense, but most people don't have very much to spare so a little additional software is a huge win for them. And I would argue that the RPC service doesn't add stability, RPC is an extremely complicated service and has been the root of a large portion of NT's remote exploits. Not having the RPC service running is usually considered a plus all around.

RAM is only one factor. Open programs or processes use much more than just some RAM.

Not if you're not using them. Some nasty things like the Finder service can have a direct impact on performance as they update their indices, but most services just startup and idle if you don't use them. Once they sit idle long enough they'll be evicted from memory and will only take up however many bytes Windows uses for a process descriptor.
 
Originally posted by: Nothinman
What the thread doesn't mention is that the less you have running, the more stable your sys will be
My machine has 115 processes currently, by your count doesn't that mean it should be crashing any second now?
That's just a bit asinine. It all depends on the resource usage and what the process actually is. There may just be a higher liklihood of what you have running will affect stability. Although, if you have that many things running at once, I would say that the stability is definately more susceptible to hiccups.

And if you're machine is infected with a virus, it's not going to be very stable is it?
Depends on the virus. And you're adding variables, which have nothing to do with the topic.

Sure, you can get around the necessity of a anti-virus with a healthy dose of common sense, but most people don't have very much to spare so a little additional software is a huge win for them.
No one said it was worth it to disable AV programs.

And I would argue that the RPC service doesn't add stability, RPC is an extremely complicated service and has been the root of a large portion of NT's remote exploits. Not having the RPC service running is usually considered a plus all around.
I would venture to say that you have no clue what the RPC service actually is.

Not if you're not using them. Some nasty things like the Finder service can have a direct impact on performance as they update their indices, but most services just startup and idle if you don't use them. Once they sit idle long enough they'll be evicted from memory and will only take up however many bytes Windows uses for a process descriptor.
But still, that whole process it's going through will take up much more than just a little bit of RAM. And if you look at the Task Manager (with most columns enabled), there won't be a single process that has multiple zeros.
 
That's just a bit asinine. It all depends on the resource usage and what the process actually is. There may just be a higher liklihood of what you have running will affect stability. Although, if you have that many things running at once, I would say that the stability is definately more susceptible to hiccups.

The box currently has 7 days of uptime with absolutely no hiccups and the number of process hasn't significantly gone up or down in that time period. And it's only 7 days because I decided to play with the new -mm kernel release last week. I've been running this box for months with this load, which isn't even terribly high IMO, and the only hiccups have been caused by me playing with beta kernel features. The amount of processes running is in no way related to the "badness" of those processes.

Depends on the virus. And you're adding variables, which have nothing to do with the topic.

Of course it has to do with the topic. It was mentioned by you that things like firewalls and antiviruses don't add stability which is untrue. Viruses are notorious for causing random problems because they're altering the way the system was designed to function which can cause programs to die, hang, etc in unexpected ways. Having an antivirus would counter that, although not 100%.

I would venture to say that you have no clue what the RPC service actually is.

And you would be wrong, but I would love to hear what you think it is or at least why you don't think it should be considered a security problem.

But still, that whole process it's going through will take up much more than just a little bit of RAM. And if you look at the Task Manager (with most columns enabled), there won't be a single process that has multiple zeros.

No, if that process is evicted from memory the only resources it will be taking up are in the process table. I'm also assuming that the statistics that you see in taskmgr and perfmon are stored in whatever NT calls their task_struct, but even if they're not stored inside of that object they'll only be eating a handful of bytes. Even if each field is 64-bits wide (and I don't know the data types off the top of my head) 16 of them would only take up 1K of memory. So I'm curious to hear what you think this "much more than just a little bit of RAM" is being used for.
 
I'd say any system that becomes unstable because you have 100 processes is a pretty crappy system as long as those processes aren't a bunch of viruses or something.
153 processes here, 51 days of uptime(time since last kernel update), doing fine.
 
Originally posted by: Nothinman
The box currently has 7 days of uptime with absolutely no hiccups and the number of process hasn't significantly gone up or down in that time period. And it's only 7 days because I decided to play with the new -mm kernel release last week. I've been running this box for months with this load, which isn't even terribly high IMO, and the only hiccups have been caused by me playing with beta kernel features.
Ok, that's great.

The amount of processes running is in no way related to the "badness" of those processes.
And this is still consistent with what I've been saying.

Of course it has to do with the topic. It was mentioned by you that things like firewalls and antiviruses don't add stability which is untrue. Viruses are notorious for causing random problems because they're altering the way the system was designed to function which can cause programs to die, hang, etc in unexpected ways. Having an antivirus would counter that, although not 100%.
No, it's absolutely off topic. You're the one that's mentioning getting a virus, when that has nothing to do with the number of processes or how that relates to stability. You're adding variables to the discussion that don't belong. And nobody said anything about disabling important services or programs.

And you would be wrong, but I would love to hear what you think it is or at least why you don't think it should be considered a security problem.
A security problem? Laffo. OK then, how about you go to the Services MMC, locate "Remote Procedure Call (RPC)", open its properties, stop it, and then set it to Disabled. And restart. Then if you have enough functionality left, try coming back here and report how well that's working out for you.

No, if that process is evicted from memory
Again, that whole process (not process as in an OS process) is still leaving room for unnecessarily taking up resources.

the only resources it will be taking up are in the process table.
Uhh, no, it's hardly that efficient. I doubt it takes up to several megabytes just to map a few things out in the process table (based on reading what resources they are still taking up, even after they supposedly should be completely swapped out). And you don't know when it's doing something; just because you don't use a program or something that requires it, doesn't mean it's just sitting there completely idle (which also means not all of it would remain swapped).

I'm also assuming that the statistics that you see in taskmgr and perfmon are stored in whatever NT calls their task_struct, but even if they're not stored inside of that object they'll only be eating a handful of bytes. Even if each field is 64-bits wide (and I don't know the data types off the top of my head) 16 of them would only take up 1K of memory. So I'm curious to hear what you think this "much more than just a little bit of RAM" is being used for.
ROFL. Please, prove to me that these processes somehow end up taking only a few bytes, and aren't doing any other sort of actions. Fact is, several unnecessary processes WILL take up more than just a few bytes, or even kilobytes for that matter, and they end up using other resources as well; whether it be for starting, stopping, or even while it's seemingly sitting idle. Resources such as: I/O reads/writes, processor time, threads, handles, etc. This doesn't amount to just "a handful of bytes".
 
Ok, that's great.

I agree.

And this is still consistent with what I've been saying.

Not at all, you specifically stated "Although, if you have that many things running at once, I would say that the stability is definately more susceptible to hiccups.". But the truth is that the amount of processes means absolutely nothing, the only time the amount of processes will affect the system is in the very extreme case where you run out of PIDs or memory to keep track of processes and those are extremely unlikely scenarios.

You're the one that's mentioning getting a virus, when that has nothing to do with the number of processes or how that relates to stability. You're adding variables to the discussion that don't belong. And nobody said anything about disabling important services or programs.

You specifically stated that adding an antivirus doesn't add stability, they add features. But the fact of the matter is that those features generally add stability since the alternative is using an infacted machine which will almost always have stability problems in addition to the infection.

A security problem? Laffo. OK then, how about you go to the Services MMC, locate "Remote Procedure Call (RPC)", open its properties, stop it, and then set it to Disabled. And restart. Then if you have enough functionality left, try coming back here and report how well that's working out for you.

I realize it's required for alot of Windows' functionality, but that doesn't mean it's any less of a security hazard. IE has been riddled with holes in the past as well, but that doesn't mean you can actually remove MSHTML and have things still work. On unix if you want to use NFS you need to have portmap running, it's a conscience decision to allow a potentially bad service to run so that you can get some functionality that you want.

Please, prove to me that these processes somehow end up taking only a few bytes, and aren't doing any other sort of actions.

Go to your local book store and read a few chapters of Inside Windows. A sleeping process will never do anything unless activated by an outside source, if the process stays idle long enough Windows will evict it from memory to make room for things that are being used. The only thing that won't get paged out is the process descriptor since that's part of the kernel's memory and is needed incase the process does want to run again. On Linux a task_struct is 960 bytes, I can't imagine the NT one would be a whole helluva lot bigger.

Fact is, several unnecessary processes WILL take up more than just a few bytes, or even kilobytes for that matter, and they end up using other resources as well; whether it be for starting, stopping, or even while it's seemingly sitting idle. Resources such as: I/O reads/writes, processor time, threads, handles, etc. This doesn't amount to just "a handful of bytes".

Fact is, you havn't done any kernel development so you don't know any of that for sure. When the service starts, yes it will use some resources. But after it sits idle for a bit they will be reused by the NT VMM.

I/O reads/writes are a one time thing, at request of an I/O the kernel will perform the action and free the memory to be used for I/O for another process.
No CPU time will be allocated to a sleeping process. Unless the process has a reason to activate it will sit 100% idle.
A thread is a lightweight process, it takes even less memory to track one of those.
File handles are normal integers on unix, even if the NT ones are twice as big for some unknown reason they'll using a whole 8 bytes of memory.
 
ugh. I have about 50 at startup, but that includes:

6 Konfabulator.exe's
3 Intel Proset wireless utility's (requried)
1 Objectdock
1 Trillian
1 outlook
1 word.exe (launches with outlook won't die even if i exit outlook)
4 Asus hotkey utilities (required)
3 Bluetooth stack (required)
5 or 6 svchost.exe (why do i have that many??)
 
Originally posted by: makken
ugh. I have about 50 at startup, but that includes:

6 Konfabulator.exe's
3 Intel Proset wireless utility's (requried)
1 Objectdock
1 Trillian
1 outlook
1 word.exe (launches with outlook won't die even if i exit outlook)
4 Asus hotkey utilities (required)
3 Bluetooth stack (required)
5 or 6 svchost.exe (why do i have that many??)[/q]

I have a few SVchost.exe also...same with CLI.exe
 
Processes and services is not he same.

The number of processes depends on what is running on the computer.

Read this short page and download the program that is linked to in the middle of the page, this free program would show you what the running processes are and how much they take in resources. http://www.ezlan.net/svchost.html

If you have applications that run and you do not need them disable them at StartUp.

However, do not be surprise if you would spend hours on this project, you might even Trash your computer in the process, and then when the all thing is done you would discover that you gained Nothing in terms of more functionality.

:sun:
 
Originally posted by: Powermoloch
I like to get as much performance in my rig (at the sig). Hopefully can grab some precious ram out of it. But...I would like to know if there is any guides at all to do some tweaking in the ms.config or something in similar. Anyone knows?
btw,
I got a laptop back from bestbuy (after repairs) and surprised it has 30 processes running instead of 48 :Q ! I'm amazed, so I would like to do the same for my gaming rig 😛
Any replies are appreciated.


You probably have lots of processes on your taskbar which you don't need.
It means disabling nvidia desktop manager, creative junk, nero drivespeed, etc.
I keep mine to the minimum - anti-virus, agnitum firewall, messenger and p2p if I'm dl'ing, around 25 processes usually at bootup.
 
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