I hate that my car has daytime running lights.

[jagec]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Ugh, automatic headlights suck. They're always about 5 seconds late. I drive through a couple tunnels on the way to work every morning and you can always tell the cars that have automatic lights because their lights come on lust before they're about to exit the tunnel.

I have a better idea: We teach drivers to turn their headlights on when they're needed and stop mandating things that help stupid people survive.

ZV

You keep saying this but you don't seem to see we don't yet live in a socially responsible culture yet. It's easier to pass the buck then correct the problem from the source. As for DRL goes don't they operate at reduced voltage anyway. It's not the full light. Also if you fully intent of disabling the feature. I'm sure if you ask this online at a car form for your car they may have a tutorial on disabling this.

Fine, how about this. Ever been in a snowstorm or mild drizzle where cars are throwing up lots of mist and visibility is crap, but it's still the middle of the day and there's plenty of *light*? It's very hard to see the cars that don't have their headlights on, yet the automatic headlights won't work because they use a light sensor and there's still plenty of that around. Talk about a safety issue, all because the drivers are being trained to just let the car take care of the headlights.

 

[programmer]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think safe ... but I'm glad I don't have DRLs for when I don't want lights on, but I always turn my headlights on when I drive, no matter what the weather. Never had any "close calls" since I started putting the headlights on all the time now (4+ years).

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Ugh, automatic headlights suck. They're always about 5 seconds late. I drive through a couple tunnels on the way to work every morning and you can always tell the cars that have automatic lights because their lights come on lust before they're about to exit the tunnel.

I have a better idea: We teach drivers to turn their headlights on when they're needed and stop mandating things that help stupid people survive.

ZV

You keep saying this but you don't seem to see we don't yet live in a socially responsible culture yet. It's easier to pass the buck then correct the problem from the source. As for DRL goes don't they operate at reduced voltage anyway. It's not the full light. Also if you fully intent of disabling the feature. I'm sure if you ask this online at a car form for your car they may have a tutorial on disabling this.

Fine, how about this. Ever been in a snowstorm or mild drizzle where cars are throwing up lots of mist and visibility is crap, but it's still the middle of the day and there's plenty of *light*? It's very hard to see the cars that don't have their headlights on, yet the automatic headlights won't work because they use a light sensor and there's still plenty of that around. Talk about a safety issue, all because the drivers are being trained to just let the car take care of the headlights.

Yeah. But does it really hurt you that much if stay cautious when you have DRL? So in a snowstorm with plenty of light it might not work but it probably would work in other situations that you did not list. One scenario doesn't really outweigh the other benefits such as being in a fog or perhaps going through a tunnel when you might forget to turn on your lights.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Yeah. But does it really hurt you that much if stay cautious when you have DRL? So in a snowstorm with plenty of light it might not work but it probably would work in other situations that you did not list. One scenario doesn't really outweigh the other benefits such as being in a fog or perhaps going through a tunnel when you might forget to turn on your lights.

I wasn't referring to DRL. I was referring to automatic headlights, which need work. Unlike ABS, where it may make you lazy about threshold braking, but won't actually put you in greater danger, automatic headlights CAN be dangerous. If you have auto headlights, but not DRL, you learn to never touch the headlights (talked to someone who didn't even know how to turn them on!), which means that you're a danger to everyone else under certain circumstances, like the ones I listed. Maybe they're not common where you are, but here in the PNW we do the light rain/mist in the middle of the day thing a LOT. Driving an invisible car is never good IMHO.

Automatic headlights are designed to turn on when it's dark enough for the driver to need additional light. They don't always work in cases where other drivers need to see YOUR car.

FWIW I don't "forget" to turn on my headlights, and anyone who does shouldn't be driving.

 

[Eli]

They DRLs do operate a tad lower than the regular low beams.. they brighten up a little when I turn the lights on fully.

I still find it annoying, though.

Another annoying thing... I've accidently run my battery down a couple of times. I have spare batteries around, which is easier to hook up than finding another car to jump with. The problem? All of the load on the system when the key is turned to start. I would have thought that the headlights and everything are cut out of the circuit when the key is turned to start, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Both times, I've only initially gotten a click with the second battery hooked up through the jumper cables.

Both times, pulling the DRL fuse out has let the car turn over and start.

I don't know, I tend to agree that any ++safety outweighs any negative fuel economy and such, but I'd still like to be able to turn them on and off if I wish.

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: zoiks

Yeah. But does it really hurt you that much if stay cautious when you have DRL? So in a snowstorm with plenty of light it might not work but it probably would work in other situations that you did not list. One scenario doesn't really outweigh the other benefits such as being in a fog or perhaps going through a tunnel when you might forget to turn on your lights.

I wasn't referring to DRL. I was referring to automatic headlights, which need work. Unlike ABS, where it may make you lazy about threshold braking, but won't actually put you in greater danger, automatic headlights CAN be dangerous. If you have auto headlights, but not DRL, you learn to never touch the headlights (talked to someone who didn't even know how to turn them on!), which means that you're a danger to everyone else under certain circumstances, like the ones I listed. Maybe they're not common where you are, but here in the PNW we do the light rain/mist in the middle of the day thing a LOT. Driving an invisible car is never good IMHO.

Automatic headlights are designed to turn on when it's dark enough for the driver to need additional light. They don't always work in cases where other drivers need to see YOUR car.

FWIW I don't "forget" to turn on my headlights, and anyone who does shouldn't be driving.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with your synopsis about auto headlights.

 

[XZeroII]

That's a stupid thing to be concerned about. Who really cares? Why would you care?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
You keep saying this but you don't seem to see we don't yet live in a socially responsible culture yet. It's easier to pass the buck then correct the problem from the source. As for DRL goes don't they operate at reduced voltage anyway. It's not the full light. Also if you fully intent of disabling the feature. I'm sure if you ask this online at a car form for your car they may have a tutorial on disabling this.

I bolded the area where you essentially explain why society is going down the sh*tter at an increasingly rapid pace.

I don't give a flying f*ck about a "socially responsible" society. I'm simply against anything that helps to protect stupid people while keeping them stupid. The solution is better drivers and vastly more restrictive licensing requirements. People who are too stupid to realise when they need their lights on should simply not be allowed to drive. Finding a "crutch" to compensate for their idiocy is counter-productive; it simply increases the number of drivers who have no business whatsoever behind the wheel of a car.

You may be prepared to compromise on an absolute principle and choose automated things like traction control or automatic headlights. I am not.

Summary: If you're too goddamn stupid to know when you should or shouldn't have your lights on, you need to get the f*ck off the road instead of relying on "safety" devices to do your thinking for you.

ZV

 

[kami333]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Ugh, automatic headlights suck. They're always about 5 seconds late. I drive through a couple tunnels on the way to work every morning and you can always tell the cars that have automatic lights because their lights come on lust before they're about to exit the tunnel.

I have a better idea: We teach drivers to turn their headlights on when they're needed and stop mandating things that help stupid people survive.

ZV

You keep saying this but you don't seem to see we don't yet live in a socially responsible culture yet. It's easier to pass the buck then correct the problem from the source. As for DRL goes don't they operate at reduced voltage anyway. It's not the full light. Also if you fully intent of disabling the feature. I'm sure if you ask this online at a car form for your car they may have a tutorial on disabling this.

Fine, how about this. Ever been in a snowstorm or mild drizzle where cars are throwing up lots of mist and visibility is crap, but it's still the middle of the day and there's plenty of *light*? It's very hard to see the cars that don't have their headlights on, yet the automatic headlights won't work because they use a light sensor and there's still plenty of that around. Talk about a safety issue, all because the drivers are being trained to just let the car take care of the headlights.

Newer ones will turn on if the wipers are activated for more than a few seconds. I think the Ford Fusion does this.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
I hate DRL's. Just implement the automatic lights already.

Toyota has this in all their cars, don't htye? GF's corolla has it, I figure any model on up will too. Except the Yaris, maybe that won't have it.

Ugh, automatic headlights suck. They're always about 5 seconds late. I drive through a couple tunnels on the way to work every morning and you can always tell the cars that have automatic lights because their lights come on lust before they're about to exit the tunnel.

I have a better idea: We teach drivers to turn their headlights on when they're needed and stop mandating things that help stupid people survive.

ZV

Most laws are out there to protect the stupid.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Why all the hatred for having your lights on (besides the negligible fuel economy difference)? I use my headlights most of the time. When I had my Subaru which shut off the headlights when the car was turned off they were on 100% of the time. Now that I have to remember to turn them on I only manage most of the time.

Viper GTS

I had a volvo that way, the switch was always on, and it caused more then one dead battery in my next car.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Eli
They DRLs do operate a tad lower than the regular low beams.. they brighten up a little when I turn the lights on fully.

I still find it annoying, though.

Another annoying thing... I've accidently run my battery down a couple of times. I have spare batteries around, which is easier to hook up than finding another car to jump with. The problem? All of the load on the system when the key is turned to start. I would have thought that the headlights and everything are cut out of the circuit when the key is turned to start, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Both times, I've only initially gotten a click with the second battery hooked up through the jumper cables.

Both times, pulling the DRL fuse out has let the car turn over and start.

I don't know, I tend to agree that any ++safety outweighs any negative fuel economy and such, but I'd still like to be able to turn them on and off if I wish.

that's just bad engineering then. My 1988 VW cuts the headlights (when they are on) when you engage the starter. of course, the Germans have figured out cars a lot better then most countries, I think.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
I hate DRL's. Just implement the automatic lights already.

Toyota has this in all their cars, don't htye? GF's corolla has it, I figure any model on up will too. Except the Yaris, maybe that won't have it.

Ugh, automatic headlights suck. They're always about 5 seconds late. I drive through a couple tunnels on the way to work every morning and you can always tell the cars that have automatic lights because their lights come on lust before they're about to exit the tunnel.

I have a better idea: We teach drivers to turn their headlights on when they're needed and stop mandating things that help stupid people survive.

ZV

Most laws are out there to protect the stupid.

None of which is in the Constitution and are therefore not valid laws, and yet we are threatened with loss of life and freedom if we don't pay for them.

Fun times up ahead... I'm ready. Paper ballots don't work anymore, it's time to vote with something that can be taken more seriously.

 

[Gillbot]

HOORAY for frivolous lawsuits!!! </sarcasm>

 

[Insane3D]

I agree 100% with Zenmervolt. I'm glad my brand new car does not come with DRL OR automatic lights. If it had come with DRL's, I would have probably found a way to disable them by now. I can judge when my lights need to be on...I don't need my car to think for me.

Every day we keep making more and more things automatic, and no one has to think about them anymore. That doesn't strike me as progress most of the time. It's one reason I love my state (NH). These nanny state laws don't apply here. We don't force people over 18 to wear their seatbelts. We don't force people to wear helmets.

I wonder how all those people made it through life without being killed in horrific accidents right and left back in the days when there were no DRL or automatic headlights...

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
I agree 100% with Zenmervolt. I'm glad my brand new car does not come with DRL OR automatic lights. If it had come with DRL's, I would have probably found a way to disable them by now. I can judge when my lights need to be on...I don't need my car to think for me.

Every day we keep making more and more things automatic, and no one has to think about them anymore. That doesn't strike me as progress most of the time. It's one reason I love my state (NH). These nanny state laws don't apply here. We don't force people over 18 to wear their seatbelts. We don't force people to wear helmets.

I wonder how all those people made it through life without being killed in horrific accidents right and left back in the days when there were no DRL or automatic headlights...

So let me get this straight...

You would take extra action to turn off a feature that's purpose is to make your life easier? and the only reason why you would do this is because you think that your car is taking over control of your life?

I can just imagine back when starters first started being put into cars instead of manually cranking them. I can just imagine people getting together and discussing how they don't need some machine telling them how to start their car. They would buy a car with an electric starter and remove it and install a hand crank.

I just don't get it...

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

I did post in this thread early and stand by what I offered.

The only reason to dislike having DRL, is to be able to hide from or not wishing to be spotted by the police.
Example: When I used to canyon race on motorcycles, a switch was inplace to kill the headlight. Simple.

 

[Insane3D]

You obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say, so feel free just to ignore it.

It's clear that because my opinion is different than yours, you are clearly correct while I am clearly wrong.

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Insane3D
I agree 100% with Zenmervolt. I'm glad my brand new car does not come with DRL OR automatic lights. If it had come with DRL's, I would have probably found a way to disable them by now. I can judge when my lights need to be on...I don't need my car to think for me.

Every day we keep making more and more things automatic, and no one has to think about them anymore. That doesn't strike me as progress most of the time. It's one reason I love my state (NH). These nanny state laws don't apply here. We don't force people over 18 to wear their seatbelts. We don't force people to wear helmets.

I wonder how all those people made it through life without being killed in horrific accidents right and left back in the days when there were no DRL or automatic headlights...

So let me get this straight...

You would take extra action to turn off a feature that's purpose is to make your life easier? and the only reason why you would do this is because you think that your car is taking over control of your life?

I can just imagine back when starters first started being put into cars instead of manually cranking them. I can just imagine people getting together and discussing how they don't need some machine telling them how to start their car. They would buy a car with an electric starter and remove it and install a hand crank.

I just don't get it...

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
You obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say, so feel free just to ignore it.

It's clear that because my opinion is different than yours, you are clearly correct while I am clearly wrong.

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Insane3D
I agree 100% with Zenmervolt. I'm glad my brand new car does not come with DRL OR automatic lights. If it had come with DRL's, I would have probably found a way to disable them by now. I can judge when my lights need to be on...I don't need my car to think for me.

Every day we keep making more and more things automatic, and no one has to think about them anymore. That doesn't strike me as progress most of the time. It's one reason I love my state (NH). These nanny state laws don't apply here. We don't force people over 18 to wear their seatbelts. We don't force people to wear helmets.

I wonder how all those people made it through life without being killed in horrific accidents right and left back in the days when there were no DRL or automatic headlights...

So let me get this straight...

You would take extra action to turn off a feature that's purpose is to make your life easier? and the only reason why you would do this is because you think that your car is taking over control of your life?

I can just imagine back when starters first started being put into cars instead of manually cranking them. I can just imagine people getting together and discussing how they don't need some machine telling them how to start their car. They would buy a car with an electric starter and remove it and install a hand crank.

I just don't get it...

You're right, I don't understand what you're saying. I mean, why would you turn that feature off? I can understand how you might not buy a vehicle because of DRL, but why would you turn it off? Just so you can do it manually? Why would you do something manually when it can be done 99% as well automatically?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand your position.

 

[Insane3D]

Yes, I would turn it off because I don't use DRL, or find a need for them. I use my headlights when it's dark..about as simple as that. I don't want my headlights on during the day when there is plenty of light...period. If it's dark enough that headlights are needed, I think I can handle turning a switch.

 

[Demo24]

well you still have to turn the switch or the rears won't illuminate.

I've never understood why people give a crap about it. My car has them and I could easily disable them, but they don't bother me nor do I have a need to think it will help hide me from the police and I see no reason to mess with them. If it gets dark I still turn my lights on, DRL does not change that.

and honestly I do seem to notice DRL cars more than ones without.

 

[Capt Caveman]

DRL is not for you but for others to see.

 

[Insane3D]

Regardless, if you buy a car, it should be a choice if the lights will be on all day....

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Insane3D
You obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say, so feel free just to ignore it.

It's clear that because my opinion is different than yours, you are clearly correct while I am clearly wrong.

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Insane3D
I agree 100% with Zenmervolt. I'm glad my brand new car does not come with DRL OR automatic lights. If it had come with DRL's, I would have probably found a way to disable them by now. I can judge when my lights need to be on...I don't need my car to think for me.

Every day we keep making more and more things automatic, and no one has to think about them anymore. That doesn't strike me as progress most of the time. It's one reason I love my state (NH). These nanny state laws don't apply here. We don't force people over 18 to wear their seatbelts. We don't force people to wear helmets.

I wonder how all those people made it through life without being killed in horrific accidents right and left back in the days when there were no DRL or automatic headlights...

So let me get this straight...

You would take extra action to turn off a feature that's purpose is to make your life easier? and the only reason why you would do this is because you think that your car is taking over control of your life?

I can just imagine back when starters first started being put into cars instead of manually cranking them. I can just imagine people getting together and discussing how they don't need some machine telling them how to start their car. They would buy a car with an electric starter and remove it and install a hand crank.

I just don't get it...

You're right, I don't understand what you're saying. I mean, why would you turn that feature off? I can understand how you might not buy a vehicle because of DRL, but why would you turn it off? Just so you can do it manually? Why would you do something manually when it can be done 99% as well automatically?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand your position.

First off, the starter analogy is a poor one. A remote starter would be better. An electric starter still requires direct human intervention; it saves labor while not trying to be "smart". Now, a car that started automatically by sensing a key fob in my pocket? No way in hell.

Secondly, "99% as well" is still 1% failure. Sorry, but a car should NEVER, not under ANY circumstances, even offer to take decision-making away from the driver. A trained driver will consistently make better decisions than a computer. That's the problem here. Call me a luddite if you must, but I have an innate distrust for un-supervised machinery.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
DRL is not for you but for others to see.

If you cannot see a car in broad daylight, you shouldn't be driving. Period. And if the driver of the other car doesn't know enough to turn his lights on when they need to be on, he shouldn't be driving. Period.

The solution is NOT automated devices. The solution is to remove the incompetent people from the driving population.

ZV