I grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church. Here's why I left | Megan Phelps-Roper

[Amused]

This video is a mere 15 minutes. But it is the most insightful example and explanation of how even the most polarized people can come together and change minds, and hearts. I wanted to share this with all of you because I think we all can learn from this.

Thank you for watching.

 

[werepossum]

Leaving that church is not exactly something for which people need explanations. Not exactly one of life's great mysteries.

 

[Amused]

Leaving that church is not exactly something for which people need explanations. Not exactly one of life's great mysteries.

You should probably listen to her.

 

[desura]

Meh. It's really easy to give up beliefs.

What is more interesting to me is how vibrant, healthy, and happy those kids look, despite the odious theology of the Westboro church. She and her family are picturesquely a healthy functioning unit.

 

[Amused]

Meh. It's really easy to give up beliefs.

What is more interesting to me is how vibrant, healthy, and happy those kids look, despite the odious theology of the Westboro church. She and her family are picturesquely a healthy functioning unit.

That's not the point of her talk.

It will be easy to see who actually listened and who did not.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Thanks for the post, marked for later

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Thanks for posting. Timely too given what has transpired in another recent thread here.

 

[Amused]

Thanks for posting. Timely too given what has transpired in another recent thread here.

Exactly! But so much more, too.

She only proves and shows how to avoid the pitfall of the backlash effect.

 

[Moonbeam]

Meh. It's really easy to give up beliefs.

What is more interesting to me is how vibrant, healthy, and happy those kids look, despite the odious theology of the Westboro church. She and her family are picturesquely a healthy functioning unit.

That's interesting. How is it that you conclude from a picture of bodies a healthy functioning unit when her whole talk was about how much better her life is psychologically, after transforming what her family instilled into her, at great mental anguish, into what she now considers a real mentally healthy state. Apparently she found that the hate for the other isn't a happy mental state. Do you have some reason for ignoring what was clearly to me her message? Perhaps you're still in the state she feels lucky to have escaped from.

 

[Amused]

That's interesting. How is it that you conclude from a picture of bodies a healthy functioning unit when her whole talk was about how much better her life is psychologically, after transforming what her family instilled into her, at great mental anguish, into what she now considers a real mentally healthy state. Apparently she found that the hate for the other isn't a happy mental state. Do you have some reason for ignoring what was clearly to me her message? Perhaps you're still in the state she feels lucky to have escaped from.

Thank you for getting it Moonie!

 

[Meghan54]

Do you have some reason for ignoring what was clearly to me her message? Perhaps you're still in the state she feels lucky to have escaped from.

It's rather simple....they just don't want to get it. Period.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Explain it to me because I don't get it either. She grew up, grew a brain and escaped from religious idiocy. So what? There are a whole shitload of us who eventually managed to say "what a load of nonsense, I'm not going to be a part of this any more".

She was not in country where changing religions is illegal or grounds for death. She was not in a religion that held her captive and tried to re-indoctrinate her against her will. She just heard both sides and decided that their message was not her message. Untold millions upon millions have rejected religion after getting a little education. Why is she special?

 

[1prophet]

Should be mandatory viewing for all the students and faculty staff of our so called liberal colleges and universities in the news recently who have allowed the "hecklers veto" to shut down free speech by using the fear of violence as an excuse.

 

[brycejones]

Should be mandatory viewing for all the students and faculty staff of our so called liberal colleges and universities in the news recently who have allowed the "hecklers veto" to shut down free speech by using the fear of violence as an excuse.

My original reply wasn't really appropriate given the subject of the thread.

Serious question to you 1prophet is that really the only group who you think could benefit from watching or listening to this TED talk? Why single out liberals? I know there are some unfortunately are unable to listen to opposing views. However do you think that behavior is only limited to liberals?

 

[Amused]

Explain it to me because I don't get it either. She grew up, grew a brain and escaped from religious idiocy. So what? There are a whole shitload of us who eventually managed to say "what a load of nonsense, I'm not going to be a part of this any more".

She was not in country where changing religions is illegal or grounds for death. She was not in a religion that held her captive and tried to re-indoctrinate her against her will. She just heard both sides and decided that their message was not her message. Untold millions upon millions have rejected religion after getting a little education. Why is she special?

She's not. Her experience is. Her explanation of how and why she changed is. As I said, her experience is precisely how the backlash effect is overcome.

Maybe, just maybe you should listen to it with an open, objective mind? Try it, and tell me what you take away from it.

 

[Amused]

I'll take Derp for $500 Alex.

 

[brycejones]

Watched it, thanks for posting. Certainly something to think about there.

 

[Moonbeam]

Thank you for getting it Moonie!

Actually I cannot claim to get what I cannot explain. She listed four things that helped her arrive in a different place somewhat analogous to my own experience and somewhat different. We seem to share these things.

1. We grew up believing in the good and that we knew what it is. Dialog with others put cracks in her certainty and made her question. I dialoged with myself and failed to convince myself that what I believed could be proved.

2. We both experienced deep anguish at the loss of our beliefs.

3 She found love exists in 'those evil others' she thought were full of hate. I found love is the ground of being, that it just is and requires no justification.

4. Your truths are the product of unlearning unexamined unconscious beliefs, that what we are is the result of our experience, our indoctrination.

5. We both found that joy of being is in the emptiness of opinion, deep humility, lack of ego.

But why we see things others do not is beyond me. Why did we die and others still cling? It has to do with honesty of some kind or another but how do you come by that? The best I have heard is that it requires either deep curiosity or deep need. She may have been intensely curious as an extreme outsider. I was drowning in pain. Clearly she also knew pain.

Anyway, as the conservative world view crumbles before our eyes, I find myself rather appalled by the

 

[Moonbeam]

Explain it to me because I don't get it either. She grew up, grew a brain and escaped from religious idiocy. So what? There are a whole shitload of us who eventually managed to say "what a load of nonsense, I'm not going to be a part of this any more".

She was not in country where changing religions is illegal or grounds for death. She was not in a religion that held her captive and tried to re-indoctrinate her against her will. She just heard both sides and decided that their message was not her message. Untold millions upon millions have rejected religion after getting a little education. Why is she special?

i suppose I missed the part where I was to feel left out because, somehow, she's special, but since you bring it up let me ask you, what price did you pay for atheist sophistication? And how big of a religious nut bag were you before you found , what looks to me to be indistinguishable from the very certainty she abandoned at great emotional cost, i.e., her genetic family's love?

 

[sandorski]

Good talk.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

i suppose I missed the part where I was to feel left out because, somehow, she's special, but since you bring it up let me ask you, what price did you pay for atheist sophistication? And how big of a religious nut bag were you before you found , what looks to me to be indistinguishable from the very certainty she abandoned at great emotional cost, i.e., her genetic family's love?

Is that the criteria? Well, since I seem to have struck a nerve, one that has twisted your panties into a bunch and led you to make a bigger fool of yourself...

Was she in a religion that holds people captive and re-indoctrinates subversives? Others have managed to shake off the shackles (quite literally in some cases) and escape circumstances like that.

Was she in a society that restricts information and makes it nearly impossible to hear opposing viewpoints? Others have managed to discover the truth when it was being actively hidden. And you believe this video is special because she found the truth by clicking her phone screen? What a martyr!!!

Was she risking her life and her freedom by walking away? Many great leaders have truly put themselves on the line to try to escape a religion, doing so in places and at moments in history where summary execution was a real threat. But they thought the message was more important than their own lives and risked EVERYTHING to help it spread. Did she risk anything?

Does she continue to live under a yolk of oppression? Doe she face torture, economic ruin and hit squads that will go after her entire family for saying that Westboro is bad? Others have faced those circumstances and found the courage to fight against religious zealotry.

Has she in fact done anything other than wake up one morning and understand that she was lied to by a bunch of idiots? If I have not earned the right to feel special for freeing myself from a religious upbringing where I was forced to participate in rituals and activities that were not my choice (and for the record, I most certainly have not earned anything, I merely grew a brain and walked away) then neither has she. She's just a person who saw through the rhetoric of a gang of idiots and decided she wanted no part of that. Good for her. She's just like millions and millions and millions of others who simply said "nope, this isn't for me" and walked away.

So I'll ask again, why is she special for deciding she wanted to stop being aligned with a tiny collection of religious nuts and why are you and Amused acting so childishly about anyone who asks that simple question rather than falling to their knees to worship her as some paragon of going clear? So she quit a religion. So what? Happens every day in every country and it happens to people who are a hell of a lot more worthy of admiration. Quitting Westeros is easier than quitting a contract at a gym.

 

[Amused]

Is that the criteria? Well, since I seem to have struck a nerve, one that has twisted your panties into a bunch and led you to make a bigger fool of yourself...

Was she in a religion that holds people captive and re-indoctrinates subversives? Others have managed to shake off the shackles (quite literally in some cases) and escape circumstances like that.

Was she in a society that restricts information and makes it nearly impossible to hear opposing viewpoints? Others have managed to discover the truth when it was being actively hidden. And you believe this video is special because she found the truth by clicking her phone screen? What a martyr!!!

Was she risking her life and her freedom by walking away? Many great leaders have truly put themselves on the line to try to escape a religion, doing so in places and at moments in history where summary execution was a real threat. But they thought the message was more important than their own lives and risked EVERYTHING to help it spread. Did she risk anything?

Does she continue to live under a yolk of oppression? Doe she face torture, economic ruin and hit squads that will go after her entire family for saying that Westboro is bad? Others have faced those circumstances and found the courage to fight against religious zealotry.

Has she in fact done anything other than wake up one morning and understand that she was lied to by a bunch of idiots? If I have not earned the right to feel special for freeing myself from a religious upbringing where I was forced to participate in rituals and activities that were not my choice (and for the record, I most certainly have not earned anything, I merely grew a brain and walked away) then neither has she. She's just a person who saw through the rhetoric of a gang of idiots and decided she wanted no part of that. Good for her. She's just like millions and millions and millions of others who simply said "nope, this isn't for me" and walked away.

So I'll ask again, why is she special for deciding she wanted to stop being aligned with a tiny collection of religious nuts and why are you and Amused acting so childishly about anyone who asks that simple question rather than falling to their knees to worship her as some paragon of going clear? So she quit a religion. So what? Happens every day in every country and it happens to people who are a hell of a lot more worthy of admiration. Quitting Westeros is easier than quitting a contract at a gym.

In the time it took to write all that you could have watched it and listened to her.

The irony is, the message she has would most benefit you.

 

[Moonbeam]

Is that the criteria? Well, since I seem to have struck a nerve, one that has twisted your panties into a bunch and led you to make a bigger fool of yourself...

Those weren't criteria, those were questions that I asked of you to answer from your own personal experience. The tangent you went off on may indicate whose panties got in a bunch, but no matter. You, you as a person, what price did YOU pay for your self assured atheism. I think it rather likely that you are dismissive of what she achieved because you never really achieved it. You are still bitter and angry that there are people of faith in the world. Have you ever noticed that the things in the world that most offend you are those things that remind you of yourself. You were told you'd be condemned to Hell of you don't believe and it looks like those religious nuts were right. You are them in the mirror.

Suppose you had an empty storage jar around somewhere put away in case you need one for something and I came along and told you that there's no money in that jar. You would look at me funny and comment, perhaps, that you already knew that. You wouldn't get up on a soap box and give a big speech condemning people who believe that jars randomly fill up with money. And that is because you have never been emotionally damaged by such a belief. But you still carry the scars of faith, it would seem. Do you see that as a possibility?[/QUOTE]

 

[interchange]

There are people out there that are narcissists and sociopaths who lack meaningful interpersonal connection. And there are people who act like them because it feels too vulnerable to be open.

In my experience as a psychiatrist, I've met a few of the former and a whole lot of the latter.

Basically, and rarely otherwise, everyone is just human. All we want is to be respected for who we are. For most of us, our fear of being vulnerable prevents us from connecting with people different than us. For some of us, it prevents us from connecting to anyone at all. But if we can admit that deep down inside we still want to, maybe that can change.

 

[PlanetJosh]

I wondered if the the main social issues would be a part of the video. And there were some like whether or not Muslims are bad people and other issues on which people have sharply opposing stances.

And those signs with the name calling printed on them, man that was kind of shocking. I saw reports of protest signs like that in religious groups in the U.S. many months ago. But had forgotten about them until now.