I got a Chrysler 300 rental car...

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
no offense to you, but to pass judgment on american cars from driving just one is a bit unfair 😉

in my experience every american car i've driven was subpar in every aspect. it's sad when I can honestly say that my 1996 camry has a better interior and rides and handles better than most of the junk i've driven that's been made in this decade (G6, cavalier, cobalt, ion)

You've driven the wrong ones. Those are junk.

Try a new Corvette, Cadillac CTS, Mustang GT, 2009 Camaro, Pontiac G8 or GTO. There are probably a few others that are good. I agree that there are a lot that suck. Don't get those. Get a good one.

This is like saying there was no good music in the 70's because they had the Bee Gees. Try Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, etc...

EDIT:
Yes, I'm aware those bands were formed in the 60's. A lot of their best music was made in the 70's though.

those cars are in a totally different category man. if i have to get a high end american sports or luxury car to match my lowly 96 camry econobox, that's saying something right there 😕

and the last corvette i was in 2003ish had a pretty crappy interior although it was hella fast

Well the Camry was a pretty good car at what it was designed for. But still you have to take all of this stuff on a case by case basis.

If the only Japanese car I ever drove was a base Mitsubishi Lancer, would it be fair to say all Japanese cars are complete crapboxes?

I agree that there are a lot of crappy American cars. But there are also crappy Japanese cars, crappy European cars, etc...

I don't really want to defend the base model Chrysler 300, because I don't think it's all that great either. But the performance version is significantly better.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
no offense to you, but to pass judgment on american cars from driving just one is a bit unfair 😉

in my experience every american car i've driven was subpar in every aspect. it's sad when I can honestly say that my 1996 camry has a better interior and rides and handles better than most of the junk i've driven that's been made in this decade (G6, cavalier, cobalt, ion)

Sorry, 11 year old Camry is junk. It was nice for its time but technology and advance marches on. Current domestics are much better.

 

[Gillbot]

I was offered a 300 as a rental while my company van was in for repairs. At the rental counter the rep asked why I needed a rental and I told him my Chrysler van was in for repairs and he said, well then I won't curse you with a 300 then, they are junk.

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
no offense to you, but to pass judgment on american cars from driving just one is a bit unfair 😉

in my experience every american car i've driven was subpar in every aspect. it's sad when I can honestly say that my 1996 camry has a better interior and rides and handles better than most of the junk i've driven that's been made in this decade (G6, cavalier, cobalt, ion)

You've driven the wrong ones. Those are junk.

Try a new Corvette, Cadillac CTS, Mustang GT, 2009 Camaro, Pontiac G8 or GTO. There are probably a few others that are good. I agree that there are a lot that suck. Don't get those. Get a good one.

This is like saying there was no good music in the 70's because they had the Bee Gees. Try Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, etc...

EDIT:
Yes, I'm aware those bands were formed in the 60's. A lot of their best music was made in the 70's though.

Goat, he was comparing his camry to other family sedans and subcompact cars, not super sports cars. I don't think you'll compare a school bus to a ferrari in terms of cornering stability now would you?

I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

BTW, my dad rented a Chervolet Impala a few months ago. He was at the stoplight, and the conditions were slippery cus of the rain. As soon as the light turned green, he floored it, and the so-called traction control was useless. The traction control never cut the throttle or anything, the wheels just kept on spining. Now 2 weeks ago, same weather conditions, differnet road. First he cuts the traction control on the BMW and floored it, and obviously the rear wheels would spin. He turns on the traction control once the car reaches a full stop. He floors it and the traction control instantly intervenes and stops the rear wheels from spinning. That tells a lot on how good American and European cars are.

Just my 2 cents. I'm done now.

The first post was comparing his Altima to a 300, and saying that because his Altima was better than the stripped down 300 that "it's no wonder people buy foreign cars". That seems to be grouping together all American cars to me.

I'm just saying that you have to take this case by case. Not ALL American cars are junk.

Impalas suck and your dad can't drive.

=.=. Heard of testing how good the traction control system is? I fully told you his procedures so if you used your little brain a bit, you would know that he was testing how good the traction control is. My dad can drive better than you blind-folded. Have you tried going down a Canadian highway ramp with 5 full size people in the car doing around 70+ on worn out tires? I don't think so.

What I say is that American cars ARE getting better, but imo, they're still have a lot of catching up to do. Espicially catching up against the Japanese imports. And I'm not saying that the 300 sucks or anything. Wonder why you think that.

 

[maddogchen]

I rented a 300 while I was in Maui. Very comfortable car to sit in. Adequate power, decent steering. Interior felt cheap though, probably since it was for rental.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: GoatMonkey

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
no offense to you, but to pass judgment on american cars from driving just one is a bit unfair 😉

in my experience every american car i've driven was subpar in every aspect. it's sad when I can honestly say that my 1996 camry has a better interior and rides and handles better than most of the junk i've driven that's been made in this decade (G6, cavalier, cobalt, ion)

You've driven the wrong ones. Those are junk.

Try a new Corvette, Cadillac CTS, Mustang GT, 2009 Camaro, Pontiac G8 or GTO. There are probably a few others that are good. I agree that there are a lot that suck. Don't get those. Get a good one.

This is like saying there was no good music in the 70's because they had the Bee Gees. Try Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, etc...

EDIT:
Yes, I'm aware those bands were formed in the 60's. A lot of their best music was made in the 70's though.

Goat, he was comparing his camry to other family sedans and subcompact cars, not super sports cars. I don't think you'll compare a school bus to a ferrari in terms of cornering stability now would you?

I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

BTW, my dad rented a Chervolet Impala a few months ago. He was at the stoplight, and the conditions were slippery cus of the rain. As soon as the light turned green, he floored it, and the so-called traction control was useless. The traction control never cut the throttle or anything, the wheels just kept on spining. Now 2 weeks ago, same weather conditions, differnet road. First he cuts the traction control on the BMW and floored it, and obviously the rear wheels would spin. He turns on the traction control once the car reaches a full stop. He floors it and the traction control instantly intervenes and stops the rear wheels from spinning. That tells a lot on how good American and European cars are.

Just my 2 cents. I'm done now.

😕
a STOCK cobra crustang is faster than a skyline and modding it is even easier than a skyline and seeing as you have to pay out the ass to even import one, you can't even compare the 2

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
no offense to you, but to pass judgment on american cars from driving just one is a bit unfair 😉

in my experience every american car i've driven was subpar in every aspect. it's sad when I can honestly say that my 1996 camry has a better interior and rides and handles better than most of the junk i've driven that's been made in this decade (G6, cavalier, cobalt, ion)

Sorry, 11 year old Camry is junk. It was nice for its time but technology and advance marches on. Current domestics are much better.

sorry, all the money i save driving and minimal upkeep costs will go toward something that ISN'T a car, i wouldn't call that junk, unless if you're one of those people who like to stay in debt and get a new car every year.

anyways i have a 07 accord coupe

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth


2008 Nissan Altima 3.5SE Coupe:

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.7 sec
Street start, 5?60 mph: 6.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.6 sec @ 97 mph

Well I guess an Altima Coupe can beat a 400E, but that wasn't really why I was aiming for.

I guess my whole discussion with GoatMonkey was really inspired by the fact that I loved driving those cars. Generally mid 90's cars kicked ass, they weren't too old they had the technology needed, yet not too modern just right :0
I just wish car manufacturers didn't inflate cars like nowadays 🙁

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
no offense to you, but to pass judgment on american cars from driving just one is a bit unfair 😉

in my experience every american car i've driven was subpar in every aspect. it's sad when I can honestly say that my 1996 camry has a better interior and rides and handles better than most of the junk i've driven that's been made in this decade (G6, cavalier, cobalt, ion)

Sorry, 11 year old Camry is junk. It was nice for its time but technology and advance marches on. Current domestics are much better.

sorry, all the money i save driving and minimal upkeep costs will go toward something that ISN'T a car, i wouldn't call that junk, unless if you're one of those people who like to stay in debt and get a new car every year.

anyways i have a 07 accord coupe

By junk, I was referring to the technology, not the condition of your car. Even if you had a brand new 11 year old Camry with 0 miles and in perfect cosmetic condition, it would be junk compared to the current domestics. It's like saying your pentium II computer from 1996 is better than current Core2 Duo. But you can keep thinking your 125 hp Camry is better than current cars. :laugh:

BTW, your 07 accord coupe is junk. 08 accord coupe is much better. :laugh:

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
no offense to you, but to pass judgment on american cars from driving just one is a bit unfair 😉

in my experience every american car i've driven was subpar in every aspect. it's sad when I can honestly say that my 1996 camry has a better interior and rides and handles better than most of the junk i've driven that's been made in this decade (G6, cavalier, cobalt, ion)

Sorry, 11 year old Camry is junk. It was nice for its time but technology and advance marches on. Current domestics are much better.

sorry, all the money i save driving and minimal upkeep costs will go toward something that ISN'T a car, i wouldn't call that junk, unless if you're one of those people who like to stay in debt and get a new car every year.

anyways i have a 07 accord coupe

By junk, I was referring to the technology, not the condition of your car. Even if you had a brand new 11 year old Camry with 0 miles and in perfect cosmetic condition, it would be junk compared to the current domestics. It's like saying your pentium II computer from 1996 is better than current Core2 Duo. But you can keep thinking your 125 hp Camry is better than current cars. :laugh:

BTW, your 07 accord coupe is junk. 08 accord coupe is much better. :laugh:

I'd rather have a payed off 125hp Camry than payments on mello yello.


Tom

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
no offense to you, but to pass judgment on american cars from driving just one is a bit unfair 😉

in my experience every american car i've driven was subpar in every aspect. it's sad when I can honestly say that my 1996 camry has a better interior and rides and handles better than most of the junk i've driven that's been made in this decade (G6, cavalier, cobalt, ion)

Sorry, 11 year old Camry is junk. It was nice for its time but technology and advance marches on. Current domestics are much better.

sorry, all the money i save driving and minimal upkeep costs will go toward something that ISN'T a car, i wouldn't call that junk, unless if you're one of those people who like to stay in debt and get a new car every year.

anyways i have a 07 accord coupe

By junk, I was referring to the technology, not the condition of your car. Even if you had a brand new 11 year old Camry with 0 miles and in perfect cosmetic condition, it would be junk compared to the current domestics. It's like saying your pentium II computer from 1996 is better than current Core2 Duo. But you can keep thinking your 125 hp Camry is better than current cars. :laugh:

BTW, your 07 accord coupe is junk. 08 accord coupe is much better. :laugh:

you're retarded, have fun staying in debt forever, unless if you're 90% of the ATOT population who makes 200k a year 🙂

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
exactly. The rental 300 has the worst engine and tranny you can get in the car and cheap everything else to boot. What did you expect it to be?

I started replying this morning and lost track of time and was almost late for work. 😀

Anyway... what did I expect? I expected it to feel like a $25k car. It doesn't; here's why...

The seats suck - zero lateral support, they may as well have put a bench seat in it.

The steering sucks - can't feel the road, feedback doesn't feel real, if I didn't know better I'd say it was one of those drive by wire deals. Does have a good turning radius though, just doesn't feel like it's responding to the steering input.

The steering wheel is awkward - reminds me of the huge, thin steering wheel on my mom's old '87 Lincoln Town Car. The one I had could be adjusted up and down, but didn't telescope, and with the seat back far enough that I didn't have to have my knees bent at 60 degree angles to work the gas and brake, I had to stretch my arms out to reach the wheel, and there wasn't an arm rest in reach of my elbow to give me a break... ended up adjusting the wheel all the way down and resting my forearms on my thighs while holding the bottom of the wheel on my 40 minute drive to and from work.

The suspension sucks - this may be the result of an abused rental car, but I doubt it. It doesn't show symptoms of blown shocks like oscillating after going over a bump... it just doesn't smooth our the road at all.

Doesn't drive straight - again, may be the result of being abused and in need of an alignment. Nonetheless, my old 1977 Cutlass Supreme drove straighter than this does.

The LCD in the center console is ridiculous - this model doesn't have any navigation... just a 5 or 6 inch LCD to show what radio station I'm listening to. It's also distracting at night... I'm sure you can adjust the brightness or even turn the LCD off... still, it's an annoyance.

My Altima Coupe was criticized by a couple different reviewers for the fan/temp controls not being infinitely variable... ya know, it "clicks" every 15 degrees or so. If that's a bad feature, the 300 is worse since there's only about 6 positions for fan speed whereas my Altima has 15-20 I would guess.

Aside from the engine being gutless - or at least a bad match for a 2 ton car... it's loud. It makes a whole lot of noise for what it does.

The transmission is what I would expect from a crappy econo-box - it shifts slow but firm. If they're going for luxury, make it slow and smooth so it doesn't jerk passengers. If they're going for sporty, make it shift fast and firm so it just pushes you back into the seat, not throw you forward, then snap you back. I will concede that this may also be the result of rental car abuse... but it's very annoying nonetheless.

I can't imagine anybody buying this car and feeling satisfied. The ride quality is poor enough that an old timer who wants a big car like his old Buick wouldn't like it... it falls WAY short of a luxury car... it's doesn't get good fuel mileage... it's definitely not a sports car... and even with the SRT-8 available, who would want it now that the Charger is available?

By the way... in the past few months I've driven the 2007 Dodge Avenger, Pontiac G6 sedan, 2007 Focus, 2008 Eclipse, my 2008 Altima Coupe, a 2007 Altima Sedan, my brother's 2004 Cadillac CTS, a 2007 Civic Si, my mom's 2001 Sable, and my dad's 1996 Intrepid. This 2007 300 seems to take the worse elements from each of those and combine them into one huge disaster of a car.

*EDIT* Oh, I forgot to mention, with the steering wheel adjusted all the way down, and the seat adjusted all the way down, the top of the steering wheel covers the top of the gauges. I'm 6 feet tall... so it's not like I'm a freak of nature that can't find ANY cars that fit me...

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: geokilla
Goat, he was comparing his camry to other family sedans and subcompact cars, not super sports cars. I don't think you'll compare a school bus to a ferrari in terms of cornering stability now would you?

I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

BTW, my dad rented a Chervolet Impala a few months ago. He was at the stoplight, and the conditions were slippery cus of the rain. As soon as the light turned green, he floored it, and the so-called traction control was useless. The traction control never cut the throttle or anything, the wheels just kept on spining. Now 2 weeks ago, same weather conditions, differnet road. First he cuts the traction control on the BMW and floored it, and obviously the rear wheels would spin. He turns on the traction control once the car reaches a full stop. He floors it and the traction control instantly intervenes and stops the rear wheels from spinning. That tells a lot on how good American and European cars are.

Just my 2 cents. I'm done now.

Well plenty of people have understandably ripped you for this post, but this part here always irritates me. You are using ricer logic to try to cut down American cars which is just stupid. Of course the RB6 motor does respond well to mods (same as the 2JZ, 13B, etc.) but you do realize American engines can be "tuned" as well, right? Sometimes quite a bit more effectively. Saying that a modded Skyline would wipe the floor with a stock American sports car is just plain silly, especially if you consider value to be something required to do some floor wiping.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: geokilla
I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

4-bangers do NOT belong in sports cars. Real sports cars are muscle cars, big engines with real horsepower and the torque to back that horsepower up with (something that 4-bangers do not have).

If you go modding a car then duh you can get it faster than a stock vette. But I can also get a REAL car like a Camaro and mod it and make it faster than either 😀 GTR might be a bit faster off the line due to not having any mass to it but it won't be able to hold it. Could it beat a 9 second quarter mile LS1 powered fbody? I don't think so :evil:



BTW for those that do "appearance mods" to their little civics, neons, cavaliers, escorts, focus, etc: putting fart cans, oversized wings, cheesy body kits, and the like on a ricer then driving like a jerk doesn't give you that extra 50HP or cool factor - just something to laugh at on the road :laugh:

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth


2008 Nissan Altima 3.5SE Coupe:

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.7 sec
Street start, 5?60 mph: 6.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.6 sec @ 97 mph

Well I guess an Altima Coupe can beat a 400E, but that wasn't really why I was aiming for.

I guess my whole discussion with GoatMonkey was really inspired by the fact that I loved driving those cars. Generally mid 90's cars kicked ass, they weren't too old they had the technology needed, yet not too modern just right :0
I just wish car manufacturers didn't inflate cars like nowadays 🙁

Things that inflate. There's another reason that the Chrysler 300 is so bloated and overweight compared to the original Mercedes.

90's cars didn't have side impact standards either. So I'm sure Chrysler added bracing to the frame along with all of those airbags.

I used to be a fan of the AMG Hammer which had a 5.0 V-8 that had roughly the same performance as a Ferrari Testarossa, but with 4 doors and realistic usability. That was an even earlier version though, probably around 1986 to 1988 when those were available.

It's tough to compare cars from different eras though. As government regulations change for emissions (like the 70's), rising CAFE standards, or tougher safety standards, and higher customer expectations, cars are becoming more bloated than ever, but new technologies/materials have allowed cars to maintain reasonable emissions and fuel efficiency.

Overall, I like the progress car companies have made since the 90's. There are not that many current cars that I would trade for its 90's counterpart.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: geokilla
I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

4-bangers do NOT belong in sports cars. Real sports cars are muscle cars, big engines with real horsepower and the torque to back that horsepower up with (something that 4-bangers do not have).

If you go modding a car then duh you can get it faster than a stock vette. But I can also get a REAL car like a Camaro and mod it and make it faster than either 😀 GTR might be a bit faster off the line due to not having any mass to it but it won't be able to hold it. Could it beat a 9 second quarter mile LS1 powered fbody? I don't think so :evil:



BTW for those that do "appearance mods" to their little civics, neons, cavaliers, escorts, focus, etc: putting fart cans, oversized wings, cheesy body kits, and the like on a ricer then driving like a jerk doesn't give you that extra 50HP or cool factor - just something to laugh at on the road :laugh:

I'm not so sure about that. The original sports cars were MGs and Lotus Super 7s, and that sort of small convertible. A lot of those cars were 4 cylinders.

By that original definition a sports car is a convertible or topless entirely, with a very small light weight body, the number of cylinders didn't really have much to do with it.

Now a muscle car is pretty much defined as 8 cylinders, rear drive, large displacement in a smallish body.

And if you want to break it down even more, you have Pony cars, defined by the Mustang, that are kind of a subclass of muscle car. It would have a 6 or 8 cylinder, rear drive, and a slightly smaller body than a muscle car.

Most of the Japanese cars fit more into the category of what they used to call "pocket rocket" cars. That category was originally defined by the VW GTI. Now "pocket rocket" means uh, something else, and they are now usually called "sport compacts". Originally it was a small, front drive economy car, with an upgraded suspension and engine.

The categories are starting to blur now. It all depends on who you ask.

I like Camaros and Corvettes, but I wouldn't say that a Nissan Skyline is not a sports car. The Skyline is too purpose built to be a Sports Compact, and with AWD and no V8 it's clearly not a muscle car. I think Sports Car is the only category that fits the Skyline, even though it's not a convertible.

On the other hand the Corvette is both a Sports Car and a Muscle Car by my definition.

 

[DarkThinker]

I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I need to get this off my chest 🙁

Don't get me wrong, American cars used to be nice, matter of fact everyday after work at 5 PM, I sit on the balcony for a couple of minutes and I admire my neighbors black 1979 6.6 Trans AM, I love those cars amongst other American classics. Some cars are still nice till now, but many American cars are part of shrinking niche markets that doesn't see a lot or no competitors (worldwide), but the majority of American cars have become well, sort of .. CHEESY?

Since the end of the Muscle Era, American cars just headed down a slope. Hence why more and more Americans are willing to pay equally and sometimes more in other cases in order to get a product that lasts and doesn't depreciate in value like hell, a product that feels worth the money, mainly German & Japanese cars as we all know. And the proof is in the plummeting sales of many American brands.

Sure some brands like Cadillac still hold there place, but those are specialty cars, it's to be expected. American SUV and pickup vehicles are still among the best in their category, but hey we are in a gas crisis era, less and less people are willing to cut their mileage in half for the bragging rights. When it comes to the mainstream sedans and coupes, many American cars just can't compete with their counterparts.

Sure some might argue that cars such as German ones are expensive and not in the same category price wise, but hey these are imports in most cases, they don't pay the price premium in Germany, they get dirt cheap prices and the good quality. Matter of fact, after my graduation I am hoping to get my first BMW straight from Germany through the European Delivery Program, I'll get a deal comparable to what Germans get and I get drive in Europe and visit some relatives in Germany and other places.

I would love to see American brands up their quality, hell the more competition the better deals I'll get on the non-American brands, but I just don't see the domestic manufacturers getting their heads out of their asses, although I see some nice RWD moves from Pontiac, but come on had it not been for Holden, you know the rest. I have relatives that are engineers in the auto industry at Ford and GM and they let me in on some of the crap they deal with, it's sad the compromises that need be made with the domestic products and where the industry is heading.

Someone might argue that Corvette this and Corvette that, oh I love the Corvette, it's a bad ass car, but really, think about it, can a Corvette measure up in quality to European cars of the same caliber? I don't believe it can , between used and new Z06 @ $70-85k that's M5/M6 territory, I am pretty sure many agree an M6 or an M5(though a different category) is a higher quality product than a Corvette even though it might be a tad slower or not in the exact category, or maybe Porsche offerings, but come on that's an M6 or Porsche 911 for craps sake it's made in Germany and it's imported to over here.

I hope I got my point across without pissing anyone off, after all to each his own.

I would love to see a reasonable response to what I am stating, even if it disproves my points 🙂

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: geokilla
I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

4-bangers do NOT belong in sports cars. Real sports cars are muscle cars, big engines with real horsepower and the torque to back that horsepower up with (something that 4-bangers do not have).

i'd say this 4-banger is more of a sports car thac lets say... a mustang GT

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I need to get this off my chest 🙁

Don't get me wrong, American cars used to be nice, matter of fact everyday after work at 5 PM, I sit on the balcony for a couple of minutes and I admire my neighbors black 1979 6.6 Trans AM, I love those cars amongst other American classics. Some cars are still nice till now, but many American cars are part of shrinking niche markets that doesn't see a lot or no competitors (worldwide), but the majority of American cars have become well, sort of .. CHEESY?

Since the end of the Muscle Era, American cars just headed down a slope. Hence why more and more Americans are willing to pay equally and sometimes more in other cases in order to get a product that lasts and doesn't depreciate in value like hell, a product that feels worth the money, mainly German & Japanese cars as we all know. And the proof is in the plummeting sales of many American brands.

Sure some brands like Cadillac still hold there place, but those are specialty cars, it's to be expected. American SUV and pickup vehicles are still among the best in their category, but hey we are in a gas crisis era, less and less people are willing to cut their mileage in half for the bragging rights. When it comes to the mainstream sedans and coupes, many American cars just can't compete with their counterparts.

Sure some might argue that cars such as German ones are expensive and not in the same category price wise, but hey these are imports in most cases, they don't pay the price premium in Germany, they get dirt cheap prices and the good quality. Matter of fact, after my graduation I am hoping to get my first BMW straight from Germany through the European Delivery Program, I'll get a deal comparable to what Germans get and I get drive in Europe and visit some relatives in Germany and other places.

I would love to see American brands up their quality, hell the more competition the better deals I'll get on the non-American brands, but I just don't see the domestic manufacturers getting their heads out of their asses, although I see some nice RWD moves from Pontiac, but come on had it not been for Holden, you know the rest. I have relatives that are engineers in the auto industry at Ford and GM and they let me in on some of the crap they deal with, it's sad the compromises that need be made with the domestic products and where the industry is heading.

Someone might argue that Corvette this and Corvette that, oh I love the Corvette, it's a bad ass car, but really, think about it, can a Corvette measure up in quality to European cars of the same caliber? I don't believe it can , between used and new Z06 @ $70-85k that's M5/M6 territory, I am pretty sure many agree an M6 or an M5(though a different category) is a higher quality product than a Corvette even though it might be a tad slower or not in the exact category, or maybe Porsche offerings, but come on that's an M6 or Porsche 911 for craps sake it's made in Germany and it's imported to over here.

I hope I got my point across without pissing anyone off, after all to each his own.

I would love to see a reasonable response to what I am stating, even if it disproves my points 🙂

That's exactly why I didn't go with a domestic like a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. The quality just isn't there. For a given price, you can get more car if you go with a "foreign" car like a Nissan, Honda, Toyota, etc. I wanted a G6... I test drove two different ones from two different dealers... it just didn't compare to the Altima, or even to the Civic Si for that matter.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: geokilla
I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

4-bangers do NOT belong in sports cars. Real sports cars are muscle cars, big engines with real horsepower and the torque to back that horsepower up with (something that 4-bangers do not have).

i'd say this 4-banger is more of a sports car thac lets say... a mustang GT

That thing is, well, ugly. Looks like what the ricers wanna be 😛 Not my cup of tea. I guess I prefer the muscle /"pony" cars.


GoatMonkey, I see your point... but note I said "real sports cars," kind of like how one would say "real men do X or are Y" - it isn't saying that others who aren't doing X or Y aren't men since you can't change the fact that they are but more of the "tough guys" are the "real men." That's what I meant by "real sports cars."

Shoot reading over that I think it doesn't quite make sense clearly...

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I need to get this off my chest 🙁

Don't get me wrong, American cars used to be nice, matter of fact everyday after work at 5 PM, I sit on the balcony for a couple of minutes and I admire my neighbors black 1979 6.6 Trans AM, I love those cars amongst other American classics. Some cars are still nice till now, but many American cars are part of shrinking niche markets that doesn't see a lot or no competitors (worldwide), but the majority of American cars have become well, sort of .. CHEESY?

Since the end of the Muscle Era, American cars just headed down a slope. Hence why more and more Americans are willing to pay equally and sometimes more in other cases in order to get a product that lasts and doesn't depreciate in value like hell, a product that feels worth the money, mainly German & Japanese cars as we all know. And the proof is in the plummeting sales of many American brands.

Sure some brands like Cadillac still hold there place, but those are specialty cars, it's to be expected. American SUV and pickup vehicles are still among the best in their category, but hey we are in a gas crisis era, less and less people are willing to cut their mileage in half for the bragging rights. When it comes to the mainstream sedans and coupes, many American cars just can't compete with their counterparts.

Sure some might argue that cars such as German ones are expensive and not in the same category price wise, but hey these are imports in most cases, they don't pay the price premium in Germany, they get dirt cheap prices and the good quality. Matter of fact, after my graduation I am hoping to get my first BMW straight from Germany through the European Delivery Program, I'll get a deal comparable to what Germans get and I get drive in Europe and visit some relatives in Germany and other places.

I would love to see American brands up their quality, hell the more competition the better deals I'll get on the non-American brands, but I just don't see the domestic manufacturers getting their heads out of their asses, although I see some nice RWD moves from Pontiac, but come on had it not been for Holden, you know the rest. I have relatives that are engineers in the auto industry at Ford and GM and they let me in on some of the crap they deal with, it's sad the compromises that need be made with the domestic products and where the industry is heading.

Someone might argue that Corvette this and Corvette that, oh I love the Corvette, it's a bad ass car, but really, think about it, can a Corvette measure up in quality to European cars of the same caliber? I don't believe it can , between used and new Z06 @ $70-85k that's M5/M6 territory, I am pretty sure many agree an M6 or an M5(though a different category) is a higher quality product than a Corvette even though it might be a tad slower or not in the exact category, or maybe Porsche offerings, but come on that's an M6 or Porsche 911 for craps sake it's made in Germany and it's imported to over here.

I hope I got my point across without pissing anyone off, after all to each his own.

I would love to see a reasonable response to what I am stating, even if it disproves my points 🙂

That's exactly why I didn't go with a domestic like a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. The quality just isn't there. For a given price, you can get more car if you go with a "foreign" car like a Nissan, Honda, Toyota, etc. I wanted a G6... I test drove two different ones from two different dealers... it just didn't compare to the Altima, or even to the Civic Si for that matter.

I think the same as you two. American cars just don't have the build quality. There's a reason why the Accord was ranked 10Best on Car and Driver's list for many years. They have the technology to build excellent overall cars.

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: geokilla
I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

4-bangers do NOT belong in sports cars. Real sports cars are muscle cars, big engines with real horsepower and the torque to back that horsepower up with (something that 4-bangers do not have).

i'd say this 4-banger is more of a sports car thac lets say... a mustang GT

That thing is, well, ugly. Looks like what the ricers wanna be 😛 Not my cup of tea. I guess I prefer the muscle /"pony" cars.


GoatMonkey, I see your point... but note I said "real sports cars," kind of like how one would say "real men do X or are Y" - it isn't saying that others who aren't doing X or Y aren't men since you can't change the fact that they are but more of the "tough guys" are the "real men." That's what I meant by "real sports cars."

Shoot reading over that I think it doesn't quite make sense clearly...

Actually, the skyline has an I6 Twin Turbo engine. And you're wrong that 4 bangers don't have real horespower and torque like muscle cars. Look at the Lancer Evolution and STI. 2 litre engines (JDM STI are 2 litre, not 2.5) that make 300hp and 300lb of torque at just over $30k. Plus, they can reach 0-100km/h in under 5 seconds. Great bang for buck anyone? These cars will outperform the muscle cars on the track thanks to it's awesome cornering ability.

I think that exige looks pretty nice btw. We all have our different opinions, and the posts that I made here were my opinions.

Oh, and what happened to the Chrysler 300 rental car. This thread got turned from a rental car topic to like the comparison of sports cars.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: geokilla
I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

4-bangers do NOT belong in sports cars. Real sports cars are muscle cars, big engines with real horsepower and the torque to back that horsepower up with (something that 4-bangers do not have).

i'd say this 4-banger is more of a sports car thac lets say... a mustang GT

That thing is, well, ugly. Looks like what the ricers wanna be 😛 Not my cup of tea. I guess I prefer the muscle /"pony" cars.


GoatMonkey, I see your point... but note I said "real sports cars," kind of like how one would say "real men do X or are Y" - it isn't saying that others who aren't doing X or Y aren't men since you can't change the fact that they are but more of the "tough guys" are the "real men." That's what I meant by "real sports cars."

Shoot reading over that I think it doesn't quite make sense clearly...

Actually, the skyline has an I6 Twin Turbo engine. And you're wrong that 4 bangers don't have real horespower and torque like muscle cars. Look at the Lancer Evolution and STI. 2 litre engines (JDM STI are 2 litre, not 2.5) that make 300hp and 300lb of torque at just over $30k. Plus, they can reach 0-100km/h in under 5 seconds. Great bang for buck anyone? These cars will outperform the muscle cars on the track thanks to it's awesome cornering ability.

I think that exige looks pretty nice btw. We all have our different opinions, and the posts that I made here were my opinions.

Oh, and what happened to the Chrysler 300 rental car. This thread got turned from a rental car topic to like the comparison of sports cars.

True, my Altima's 2.5L I4 makes 175 HP. That's 70 HP per liter... compare that a 4.6L V8 from the mustang GT which makes 300 HP... 65 HP per liter. It also makes 180 lbs/ft torque, and it's naturally aspirated.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: geokilla
I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

4-bangers do NOT belong in sports cars. Real sports cars are muscle cars, big engines with real horsepower and the torque to back that horsepower up with (something that 4-bangers do not have).

i'd say this 4-banger is more of a sports car thac lets say... a mustang GT

That thing is, well, ugly. Looks like what the ricers wanna be 😛 Not my cup of tea. I guess I prefer the muscle /"pony" cars.


GoatMonkey, I see your point... but note I said "real sports cars," kind of like how one would say "real men do X or are Y" - it isn't saying that others who aren't doing X or Y aren't men since you can't change the fact that they are but more of the "tough guys" are the "real men." That's what I meant by "real sports cars."

Shoot reading over that I think it doesn't quite make sense clearly...

Actually, the skyline has an I6 Twin Turbo engine. And you're wrong that 4 bangers don't have real horespower and torque like muscle cars. Look at the Lancer Evolution and STI. 2 litre engines (JDM STI are 2 litre, not 2.5) that make 300hp and 300lb of torque at just over $30k. Plus, they can reach 0-100km/h in under 5 seconds. Great bang for buck anyone? These cars will outperform the muscle cars on the track thanks to it's awesome cornering ability.

I think that exige looks pretty nice btw. We all have our different opinions, and the posts that I made here were my opinions.

Oh, and what happened to the Chrysler 300 rental car. This thread got turned from a rental car topic to like the comparison of sports cars.

True, my Altima's 2.5L I4 makes 175 HP. That's 70 HP per liter... compare that a 4.6L V8 from the mustang GT which makes 300 HP... 65 HP per liter. It also makes 180 lbs/ft torque, and it's naturally aspirated.

LOL, sorry I just had to quote this for sheer humor

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: geokilla
I agree that American SPORTS cars are good, but imports such as Japanese ones wipe the floor with them. Take the Skyline GTR (R34) for example. The car had only 280hp but with a little tuning, it can be faster than the Corvette.

4-bangers do NOT belong in sports cars. Real sports cars are muscle cars, big engines with real horsepower and the torque to back that horsepower up with (something that 4-bangers do not have).

If you go modding a car then duh you can get it faster than a stock vette. But I can also get a REAL car like a Camaro and mod it and make it faster than either 😀 GTR might be a bit faster off the line due to not having any mass to it but it won't be able to hold it. Could it beat a 9 second quarter mile LS1 powered fbody? I don't think so :evil:



BTW for those that do "appearance mods" to their little civics, neons, cavaliers, escorts, focus, etc: putting fart cans, oversized wings, cheesy body kits, and the like on a ricer then driving like a jerk doesn't give you that extra 50HP or cool factor - just something to laugh at on the road :laugh:

You sound like what people make fun of, don't dock other peoples cars and say certain cars are not real just because you don't like them. You are biased