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I gave Windows 8 (consumer preview) 3 months, going back to 7

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jobz said:
It makes me wonder if there are 2 teams taking turns creating next version of Windows:

win95/98 - me - xp - vista - win7 - win8 - win9

See the pattern? Surely next version to upgrade is win9. However, win7 works so well I don't plan to upgrade anytime soon. Extended support now in 2020.
Click to expand...

Yeah so true, looks like windows 8 is one to skip.
 
Yeah I like Aero, and I can make W7 "uncheesy" by selecting W7 basic theme. But I like having the option to or not to.
 
I got these links from the latest Building Windows 8 post about Creating the UX.

Do read them:

Windows 7 pre-release
I hate Windows 7: http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=467280
Why I hate Windows 7: http://my.opera.com/serious/blog/why-i-hate-windows-7
7 things we hate about Windows 7: http://gizmodo.com/5150284/7-things-we-hate-about-windows-7
Am I the only one who likes Vista over 7?: http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and...4239/am-i-the-only-one-who-likes-vista-over-7

Windows Vista pre-release
The Vista Start Menu - Yet another Vista disaster: http://www.vistaheads.com/forums/mi...ta-start-menu-yet-another-vista-disaster.html
I hate Vista's Start Menu: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=11547

Windows XP pre-release
WINDOWS XP SUCKS-HARD TRUTH: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/3832-45-windows-sucks-hard-truth
Can you downgrade from XP to 98: http://www.techimo.com/forum/technical-support/34645-can-you-downgrade-xp-98-a.html

Windows 95
Someone complaining that Program Manager is better than Explorer: http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?s="windows+95"

The pattern I notice is that people are resistant to change. And when you've got 1.2 billion users, you are GOING to piss someone off. It's impossible to make everyone happy.

And I've said this before but I'll say it again, until you have apps that would actually be useful to YOU (which won't happen until general availability), there's no point in fully criticizing Metro because you'll end up spending most of your time on the desktop anyway. But the heavy Facebook, Twitter, Netflix, or Amazon user will probably prefer a Metro app to the desktop simply because it removes a ton of clutter.
 
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I'm grateful that they removed Aero, the new cleaner look definitely looks nicer and would run nicer on slower hardware (its the only reason why I have classic theme enabled)
 
I don't really care that they removed Aero, I will never be running this really crappy and not well designed peice of software ever. But Aero looks nice and is not a bad feature.
 
dagamer34 said:
I got these links from the latest Building Windows 8 post about Creating the UX.

Do read them:

Windows 7 pre-release
I hate Windows 7: http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=467280
Why I hate Windows 7: http://my.opera.com/serious/blog/why-i-hate-windows-7
7 things we hate about Windows 7: http://gizmodo.com/5150284/7-things-we-hate-about-windows-7
Am I the only one who likes Vista over 7?: http://www.daniweb.com/hardware-and...4239/am-i-the-only-one-who-likes-vista-over-7

Windows Vista pre-release
The Vista Start Menu - Yet another Vista disaster: http://www.vistaheads.com/forums/mi...ta-start-menu-yet-another-vista-disaster.html
I hate Vista's Start Menu: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=11547

Windows XP pre-release
WINDOWS XP SUCKS-HARD TRUTH: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/3832-45-windows-sucks-hard-truth
Can you downgrade from XP to 98: http://www.techimo.com/forum/technical-support/34645-can-you-downgrade-xp-98-a.html

Windows 95
Someone complaining that Program Manager is better than Explorer: http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?s="windows+95"

The pattern I notice is that people are resistant to change. And when you've got 1.2 billion users, you are GOING to piss someone off. It's impossible to make everyone happy.

And I've said this before but I'll say it again, until you have apps that would actually be useful to YOU (which won't happen until general availability), there's no point in fully criticizing Metro because you'll end up spending most of your time on the desktop anyway. But the heavy Facebook, Twitter, Netflix, or Amazon user will probably prefer a Metro app to the desktop simply because it removes a ton of clutter.
Click to expand...

Historical resistance to change doesn't make the criticisms of Win8 any less legitimate. I think that's the biggest mistake MS is making with Win8, brushing off much of the criticism as simple reactionary angst. There are fundamentally terrible design decisions at work with Win8. You can't please all the people all the time, but MS is potentially alienating an entire swath of their current customer base trying to shoehorn a tablet UI onto a desktop. By their very nature no "app" will be as capable as a proper PC program, and moving to an app-centric OS on the PC is a step backwards in most every conceivable way.
 
Gonad the Barbarian said:
Historical resistance to change doesn't make the criticisms of Win8 any less legitimate. I think that's the biggest mistake MS is making with Win8, brushing off much of the criticism as simple reactionary angst. There are fundamentally terrible design decisions at work with Win8. You can't please all the people all the time, but MS is potentially alienating an entire swath of their current customer base trying to shoehorn a tablet UI onto a desktop. By their very nature no "app" will be as capable as a proper PC program, and moving to an app-centric OS on the PC is a step backwards in most every conceivable way.
Click to expand...

I have never seen Microsoft officially state "we are killing off the desktop". They may say "we see Metro as the future of Windows" because a good chunk of what people do on their computers would easily be done in Metro, but I don't think anyone has ever believed that apps like Photoshop or Premiere Pro will be Metro apps.
 
Gonad the Barbarian said:
Historical resistance to change doesn't make the criticisms of Win8 any less legitimate. I think that's the biggest mistake MS is making with Win8, brushing off much of the criticism as simple reactionary angst. There are fundamentally terrible design decisions at work with Win8. You can't please all the people all the time, but MS is potentially alienating an entire swath of their current customer base trying to shoehorn a tablet UI onto a desktop. By their very nature no "app" will be as capable as a proper PC program, and moving to an app-centric OS on the PC is a step backwards in most every conceivable way.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are brushing it off... they are directly addressing some of the complaints and many of the criticisms found online are due to win8 not being complete (all the multi-monitor issues come to mind as well as metro and aero clashing).

Some people are just not going to be happy because metro is such a change but I expect most of the little usability issues to be remedied by the time it goes final and half of the complaints brought up against win8 will be irrelevant by the time it launches.
 
I'm looking at it with cautious optimism.

I've tested it on a couple different machines, current one being a Dell Inspiron mini. The only thing that I can confidently say Windows 8 will be perfect for is a touchscreen enabled device with a keyboard. Kind of like the Inspiron Duo Dell made a while ago.

Is it impossible to use Windows 8 on the desktop? Definitely not, especially after learning the keyboard shortcuts. The real issue lies in the fact that now your desktop experience as completely lost its fluidity. popping up a little start menu is one thing, flinging another screen at the user is another. I can't imagine how many of the not-so-computer savvy are going to wrestle with that one on its release.

It has promise, it really does, but I feel like they're trying to do way too many things at once, without a proper method of cohesion between the whole system. looking at responses, you can tell that some people are excited about the tablet portion, but the rest of the system (Storage spaces, improved system monitoring, task scheduler upgrades) are all things we could see in windows 7 now.

Regardless of how powerful those new desktop-centric features are, the use of a two pixel pointer on 160 x 40 pixel banners will just feel... wrong.

The nice part is, the developer community has and always will find work arounds to put the OS where it should have been at launch. That's the best part about the multiple releases they've had. Developers have seen most it's tricks for a while now, and we should get a taskbar fix at the very least without too much waiting.

My biggest concern is where they go from here. I don't like Ballmer, and I like Sinofsky even less. They are DECENT at what they do, but looking at what happened with Ballmer, I can only hope they think about it a little harder before handing the company over to Sinofsky.
 
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why are they doing this? win8 should be aero with an option to turn on metro. that way, IF YOU ARE IN FACT RUNNING A MOBILE TOUCHSCREEN DEVICE, then you can have an interface that makes life better.

but calling this shit win8? really? who the hell would want this on their desktop or laptop machine? im sure ms thinks people will never use a pointer mouse again... and maybe their right but i think theyre about 30 years ahead of their time on this one 🙄
 
wirednuts said:
why are they doing this? win8 should be aero with an option to turn on metro. that way, IF YOU ARE IN FACT RUNNING A MOBILE TOUCHSCREEN DEVICE, then you can have an interface that makes life better.

but calling this shit win8? really? who the hell would want this on their desktop or laptop machine? im sure ms thinks people will never use a pointer mouse again... and maybe their right but i think theyre about 30 years ahead of their time on this one 🙄
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Win8 will be popular on tablets, despised on desktops, and a mixed bag on laptops. MS will publicly hail Win8 as the greatest OS ever while fervently working on fixing it in Windows 9. Too many companies and people use desktops or laptops in docking stations to abandon this market.

I don't think Win7 would have been made if not for the lashback from Vista. Hopefully Win8 will create similar lashback and make Win9 the OS we all love.
 
It's about time for the cycle anyway. Shit os -> good os -> shit os -> good os. Windows 7 was great, so its time for a shit OS.
 
lifeblood said:
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Win8 will be popular on tablets, despised on desktops, and a mixed bag on laptops. MS will publicly hail Win8 as the greatest OS ever while fervently working on fixing it in Windows 9. Too many companies and people use desktops or laptops in docking stations to abandon this market.

I don't think Win7 would have been made if not for the lashback from Vista. Hopefully Win8 will create similar lashback and make Win9 the OS we all love.
Click to expand...

It will also usher in an entire new desktop model based around touch.... they even showed off some prototype devices at their consumer preview press conference (the hybrid desktop/slate/draft morphing example right at the link below and the 80 inch tv on the wall a few mins later.... metro is going to play a big role in those new form factors). Windows 8 is very much about forcing oem's to start thinking and creating new types of pc's to fit around this new touch first model. It will be considered a failure now but by getting all this hardware out there over the next few years it will pay big dividends as metro improves and gets more feature complete where you have to move back to the classic desktop less and less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUFv4C4fVzE&t=01h10m10s
 
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For better or for worse, I think MS is going down a road that they won't be able to back out of. I'm worried that they're trying to do too much at once. It is well documented that people don't like change. And they're bringing about a ton of it.
 
gmaster456 said:
For better or for worse, I think MS is going down a road that they won't be able to back out of. I'm worried that they're trying to do too much at once. It is well documented that people don't like change. And they're bringing about a ton of it.
Click to expand...

its been shown time and time again that people eventually adapt
everyone has hated every facebook change now its the norm
people lol'd at the iPad when it was first announced

to me Windows 8 is the next step.
 
Hugo Drax said:
I really wanted to give it a chance, I basically did an upgrade from Windows 7 to windows 8. It worked with no issue.

All my apps worked (ie: Lightroom,office etc..) all good

The Metro interface is the killer, it has some neat features but it is a bear to work with and wears you down over time in terms of usability.

Trying to shoehorn a touch interface on a 24inch 1920x1200 screen with mouse just does not translate.

I would have to say Windows 8 will be a disaster in the corporate world, and it will be disliked by users in general when you need to do the equivalent of gestures with a mouse to do simple things. The multiple steps to put your PC to sleep, find apps etc..
Click to expand...

Nice review

I don't see how MS could have survived this long without you leading the way.

Ditch the attitude, sparky
-ViRGE
 
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lifeblood said:
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Win8 will be popular on tablets, despised on desktops, and a mixed bag on laptops. MS will publicly hail Win8 as the greatest OS ever while fervently working on fixing it in Windows 9. Too many companies and people use desktops or laptops in docking stations to abandon this market.

I don't think Win7 would have been made if not for the lashback from Vista. Hopefully Win8 will create similar lashback and make Win9 the OS we all love.
Click to expand...

I always find it funny because the "good" OS end up being the ones that have relatively little changed to them. Plus, people also have revisionist histories.

Windows 7 was only possible because of the immense amount of work that went into Windows Vista. Practically every substack was changed, from graphics, to sound, to networking, plus an entire security overhaul. While it lost in the court of public opinion, it was a VERY important OS release to Microsoft. Plus, they sold about 380+ million copies and still made a ton of money off of it.

Worse case scenario, businesses avoid it and stick with Windows 7. However, I believe consumers will probably enjoy the Metro apps either on a tablet or home computer. Your average person doesn't have a 24" 1080p monitor and won't complain about fullscreen apps. They'll be happy to install Facebook, Netflix, Amazon, and eBay apps so they can avoid their horrible websites. And remember, those people outnumber us by a HUGE margin.

Windows 8 will be an actual flop if it performs worse than Windows 7. From all I've seen with the fast booting, built-in antivirus, and focus on performance, I strongly doubt that will happen.
 
Modelworks said:
MS screwed up big time with windows 8 and they should have made it two entirely separate products, windows for tablets and windows for desktops. Whoever came up with the idea of metro for desktops needs to be demoted.
Click to expand...

Yes and if windows had proper architecture like linux supplying 2 versions with a different GUI would not be that difficult...

I mean if you read into it you realize metro is a lot more than a GUI...thats why you can't disable it.
 
arod said:
It will also usher in an entire new desktop model based around touch.... they even showed off some prototype devices at their consumer preview press conference (the hybrid desktop/slate/draft morphing example right at the link below and the 80 inch tv on the wall a few mins later.... metro is going to play a big role in those new form factors). Windows 8 is very much about forcing oem's to start thinking and creating new types of pc's to fit around this new touch first model. It will be considered a failure now but by getting all this hardware out there over the next few years it will pay big dividends as metro improves and gets more feature complete where you have to move back to the classic desktop less and less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUFv4C4fVzE&t=01h10m10s
Click to expand...
Do you think businesses are going to run out to replace your computer and with an 80” touchscreen LCD? As I look around my cubicle I have to wonder where they would put it (assuming they even spent the money for it). How will a touchscreen be better running Word or Excel? PowerPoint and Visio have potential, but I don’t use them very often.

When I’m at home, I’m sure Diablo 3 would adapt well to a touch screen, but how will games like Metro or Crysis? I have an iPad and it’s great. I absolutely love it but it’s not good for everything. My wife is getting her PhD. She reads scientific journals using the iPad at night in bed, but when it comes to writing the dissertation she’s at the PC typing. And she has multiple apps open in windowed mode at the same time so she can type while referring back to her data or another article.

At work or home, when typing my arms rest on the desk. With a touchscreen I’m literally going to have to hold my arms up for long periods of time. People will find that very tiring. Yes, a redesigned desk with a touchscreen monitor lying horizontal (or near horizontal) would greatly help, but do you really see businesses running out to replace current cubicles, and office furniture, and monitors to be compatible with Win8? Really? I’m a computer geek and even I don’t want to run out and invest in new touchscreen monitors and redesign my workspace at home to adjust for them.

No, Metro is not the answer for everyone. Win8 needs to accommodate both user types. It needs to support Metro and an Explorer type interface equally. But if the Consumer Preview is any indication, MS has Forsaken the traditional desktop market.
 
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