I don't think I have keystone jacks in my cat6 install...more like cheapstone.

[imagoon]

I never suggested running both ethernet and phone on same run. Only that using 568A makes it possible to easily use the run for _either_ one.

I think you need to expand on this because I have been using 568B for years in environments with multipair phone lines without an issue. Why is it easier again? Realize the only difference in the standards are orange and green being swapped.

IE: (568A)
Pair1: (4/5) Blue/BlueW
Pair2: (3/6) OrangeW/Orange
Pair3: (1/2) GreenW/Green
Pair4: (7/8) BrownW/Brown
(568B)
Pair1: (4/5) Blue/BlueW
Pair2: (3/6) GreenW/Green
Pair3: (1/2) OrangeW/Orange
Pair4: (7/8) BrownW/Brown

This works fine for anything that is flat cable 8P8C because even though line3 and line4 straddle pairs, it is fine because analog never expected twists.

IE (RJ-61 etc)
L1: (4/5) B/BW
L2: (3/6) OW/O or GW/G
L3: (2/7) G/BnW or O/BnW
L4: (1/8) GW/Bn or OW/Bn

 

[imagoon]

What?? No, do not do that.

If the jacks are wired 568B and the OP doesn't want to fiddle with the jacks yet, then yes, use 568B at the patch panel. However, if rewiring both, I would use 568A.

So I just realized you are in Paris... that explains it. 568B is the [defacto] "standard" in the US.

T568A is more Euro exclusive.

Really in the long run it doesn't matter. If there is existing structured cabling I pop a could of jacks and match that. IE if the building is already 568A I will terminate the new cables to 568A and vis versa for 568B.

 

[ScottMac]

So I just realized you are in Paris... that explains it. 568B is the [defacto] "standard" in the US.

T568A is more Euro exclusive.

Really in the long run it doesn't matter. If there is existing structured cabling I pop a could of jacks and match that. IE if the building is already 568A I will terminate the new cables to 568A and vis versa for 568B.

568A has been a Telco standard forever ... even before it was 568A ...

 

[imagoon]

568A has been a Telco standard forever ... even before it was 568A ...

So was 568B. It stems from the ATT Merlin and much older 1A2 Key systems. (AT&T 258A)

 

[ScottMac]

I think you need to expand on this because I have been using 568B for years in environments with multipair phone lines without an issue. Why is it easier again? Realize the only difference in the standards are orange and green being swapped.

IE: (568A)
Pair1: (4/5) Blue/BlueW
Pair2: (3/6) OrangeW/Orange
Pair3: (1/2) GreenW/Green
Pair4: (7/8) BrownW/Brown
(568B)
Pair1: (4/5) Blue/BlueW
Pair2: (3/6) GreenW/Green
Pair3: (1/2) OrangeW/Orange
Pair4: (7/8) BrownW/Brown

This works fine for anything that is flat cable 8P8C because even though line3 and line4 straddle pairs, it is fine because analog never expected twists.

IE (RJ-61 etc)
L1: (4/5) B/BW
L2: (3/6) OW/O or GW/G
L3: (2/7) G/BnW or O/BnW
L4: (1/8) GW/Bn or OW/Bn

The above is called / also called "USOC" and was the way most switchboard-controlled / PBX controlled phones were rigged oh, so long ago ...

 

[drebo]

What?? No, do not do that.

If the jacks are wired 568B and the OP doesn't want to fiddle with the jacks yet, then yes, use 568B at the patch panel. However, if rewiring both, I would use 568A.

I was simply pointing out that there was no luck involved with the fact that his reterminated cables worked properly.

If one side is A and the other side is B, that's a crossover cable. All modern equipment is auto-MDIX and will accomodate either straight-through patch or crossover.

Would I ever wire my house that way? No. But, there's no mystery as to why it worked.

 

[imagoon]

The above is called / also called "USOC" and was the way most switchboard-controlled / PBX controlled phones were rigged oh, so long ago ...

Does it bring back memories of 25[24] pair D-subs? Some of those old 1A2's were exciting to install lol.

 

[frowertr]

I've always used 568B as well as that was what I was taught to use.

It's semantics anyway as it all does the same thing. Hell you could make up your own spec and wire the pins anyway you want so long as the opposite end is wired the same way.

I don't even wire crossover cables anymore as all modern switches can do auto MDIX. It's all 568B for me...

 

[imagoon]

I've always used 568B as well as that was what I was taught to use.

It's semantics anyway as it all does the same thing. Hell you could make up your own spec and wire the pins anyway you want so long as the opposite end is wired the same way.

I don't even wire crossover cables anymore as all modern switches can do auto MDIX. It's all 568B for me...

Not quite, you would have to match the pairs for it to work as Ethernet at least. Some older cat 3 cable also had differing twist / inch on blue and brown pairs.

 

[Papa Hogan]

Now I found this site, but is there an official site where it details what the cat6 specification is, like you talked about, ScottMac? I'll probably need some links to convince my contractor to pay me because his electrician's work was garbage.

Thank you guys for all your help!

 

[frowertr]

Not quite, you would have to match the pairs for it to work as Ethernet at least. Some older cat 3 cable also had differing twist / inch on blue and brown pairs.

Huh?

Straight through cables are straight through no matter what colors go to what pins. You just have to make sure both ends of the cable are wired the same way...

To be clear, I'm not telling anyone do to this because its silly to not follow the standard. But it will work.

 

[drebo]

Huh?

Straight through cables are straight through no matter what colors go to what pins. You just have to make sure both ends of the cable are wired the same way...

To be clear, I'm not telling anyone do to this because its silly to not follow the standard. But it will work.

Not really. Straight through != straight through.

 

[imagoon]

Huh?

Straight through cables are straight through no matter what colors go to what pins. You just have to make sure both ends of the cable are wired the same way...

To be clear, I'm not telling anyone do to this because its silly to not follow the standard. But it will work.

wire it up four solids then 4 whites and get back to me how that worked. The twists are there for noise canceling, out of order pairing [somewhat] would work since all pairs are matched with their counterparts however a random mix wouldn't work well.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Always use B, it's faster.

 

[ScottMac]

I've always used 568B as well as that was what I was taught to use.

It's semantics anyway as it all does the same thing. Hell you could make up your own spec and wire the pins anyway you want so long as the opposite end is wired the same way.

I don't even wire crossover cables anymore as all modern switches can do auto MDIX. It's all 568B for me...

RE: " Hell you could make up your own spec and wire the pins anyway you want so long as the opposite end is wired the same way."

No sir, this is wrong.

Yes, colors don't matter, but pin positions do; they're critical for optimum throughput. Doing a <pair><pair><pair><pair> in any color combination will cause a split pair on pins 3&6, and the crosstalk (especially in full duplex) goes through the roof, causing high re-transmissions and "slow" traffic. The hallmark symptom is better performance in 10/half (10BASE-T) than 100/full (100/half will do better).

Up to Cat5, only the orange and green pair tended to be fully certified, so using the blue or brown pair performed sub-optimally because they were not necessarily engineered and produced to carry high speed data (they were there more for terminal traffic or signaling). As of 5e, all four pair needed to be fully qualified to cover the GigE implementation, which uses all four pair).

Since you have to maintain pin position for optimum performance, why not do it according to an established spec, so the person behind you doesn't call you all sorts of names and insult your family (or lack of family) heritage?

It takes no more effort to do it right. SO follow the spec, please.

 

[ScottMac]

Always use B, it's faster.

Please don't troll Squirrel, you know better.

(Some folks don't ... please don't add to their confusion) ;-} )
Thanks!

 

[ScottMac]

Not quite, you would have to match the pairs for it to work as Ethernet at least. Some older cat 3 cable also had differing twist / inch on blue and brown pairs.

Actually, nearly all Category rated cables have different twists on each pair; it's one of the ways to help reduce coupling and crosstalk.

In addition, each manufacturer has their own formulas for insulation, insulator thickness, pair lay, sheath , conductor diameter, and some other parameters they use to hit the category rating they are pursuing.

They only need to hit the electrical spec; how they do it is up to them.

 

[frowertr]

I'm wondering if you guys have ever seen "out of spec" wiring at a job site. When I say "out of spec" neither end of the cable was wired "A" or "B". I don't remember the order. We couldn't believe it when we saw it either but it was done by the prior admin. And guess what? It worked fine.

/shrugs

At any rate, do it the right way and this problem will never develop.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'm wondering if you guys have ever seen "out of spec" wiring at a job site. When I say "out of spec" neither end of the cable was wired "A" or "B". We couldn't believe it when we saw it either but it was done by the prior admin. And guess what? It worked fine...

lol I've seen cat5 punched to a BIX panel, then another piece BIXed to the patch panel. The colors did not match anywhere, but because of the BIX panel it got crossed around enough times that both ends of the run matched, or I think you still had to use a cross over cable or something, I forget. That building was a mess. Electricians... Oh, did I mention that they stripped the insulation on all runs up to the ceiling? There was basically a hole in the wall in the ceiling and all the individual strands came down, all bundled together, to the BIX panel. They basically treated it like it was phones or something.

That building had lot of unexplained network issues. Well, maybe explained... lol

Ethernet is harder to interfere with than most people think though. I've tried all sorts of things such as magnets, transformers and I've never been able to slow down a file transfer. Even wrapped a 50 footer around a UPS once just for kicks. I wanted to see what it takes to cause serious interference and was never able to. Perhaps I'd need more powerful magnetic fields.

 

[imagoon]

Actually, nearly all Category rated cables have different twists on each pair; it's one of the ways to help reduce coupling and crosstalk.

In addition, each manufacturer has their own formulas for insulation, insulator thickness, pair lay, sheath , conductor diameter, and some other parameters they use to hit the category rating they are pursuing.

They only need to hit the electrical spec; how they do it is up to them.

That is a given, my point was that in the older cat 3 / 5 days it was pretty drastic. As for the cables many of them are certified as a system so there is variation. System as in if you use hubble cable, you should be using hubble keystones and patch panels.

 

[imagoon]

I'm wondering if you guys have ever seen "out of spec" wiring at a job site. When I say "out of spec" neither end of the cable was wired "A" or "B". I don't remember the order. We couldn't believe it when we saw it either but it was done by the prior admin. And guess what? It worked fine.

/shrugs

At any rate, do it the right way and this problem will never develop.

I have seen cat5 wire tapped on to cat1 because it was "to hard" to pull the cable through the interbuilding pipes. Seen colors wrong like using the grey wiring and 25 pair cables used for inter building runs. That would work if the 25 pair was more than cat1...

 

[ScottMac]

I have seen cat5 wire tapped on to cat1 because it was "to hard" to pull the cable through the interbuilding pipes. Seen colors wrong like using the grey wiring and 25 pair cables used for inter building runs. That would work if the 25 pair was more than cat1...

I was at a Sun Solaris 8 System Admin class and the school was using silver satin; in the walls, and for jumpers. I laughed at 'em, and later took a NetGen protocol analyzer in and showed them how crappy their network was and o the evaluation told them I wouldn't come back (or anyone else from my organization).

 

[ScottMac]

I'm wondering if you guys have ever seen "out of spec" wiring at a job site. When I say "out of spec" neither end of the cable was wired "A" or "B". I don't remember the order. We couldn't believe it when we saw it either but it was done by the prior admin. And guess what? It worked fine.

/shrugs

At any rate, do it the right way and this problem will never develop.

Getting data through is one thing, getting optimum performance (which is assumed you want wen you pay for it) is another. Some folks get a link light and think they're golden; it just ain't so.

Do whatever you want at home but for commercial installs, you gotta do it right or see your profit margin shrink or disappear.

 

[ScottMac]

I never suggested running both ethernet and phone on same run. Only that using 568A makes it possible to easily use the run for _either_ one.

It's one of those things that has to be said, even when it doesn't need to be said ...

Someone always "needs" to do it their own special way ...

 

[frowertr]

We de-railed the OP enough here I think. He may have to start a new thread!

Sorry Papa. Carry on!