I don't see how a question on a standardized test (SAT,GMAT,GRE,etc) could be racially biased

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Dumac

This has been proven false by many studies. The idea that some people are just naturally stupider than others due to their "race" is ridiculous. Go read up on the subject. From the natives of New Zealand to suburban white kids in America, all "races" have a great potential for learning. The sad part is, not all races have the same resources.

You're wrong about this. This seems to be more about you throwing out all studies that disagree with your preconceived notion and accepting logically flawed studies that agree with it.

I believe that when discussing a subject that you must approach it with an open mind. Emotion can be no part of the process. You need to be willing to accept your findings even if that means that your findings disagree with what your previously believed or even with what you want to believe.

The ability (or lack thereof) to set your emotions aside and objectively analyze the subject relying on science is what separates logical thinkers from emotional thinkers.

The bolded statement is exactly what I had to say about your uncalled for theory that intelligence is inherently a product of "race". There have been many, many studies, professors, and research that refutes this idea, yet you still choose to believe it.

The unnecessary lecture in your personal philosophy on logic was uncalled for. Do I need to remind you that liquids are fluid? No. Therefore, don't remind me that logical thinkers objectively analyze. It is common sense.

Present-day IQ tests do tend to find SOME differences in scores between races, although it largely depends on how you define "race" in the particular study, and from what racial population(s) you're drawing your samples.

Also, please keep in mind that the intra-group differences in IQ are much, much greater than any inter-group differences in IQ.

Some scientists choose to believe that there may be underlying racially-poignant reasons (whether they be cultural, biological, or both) for these differences, while others feel that they are simply an artifact of imperfect tests. Whatever the scientist's opinion, you'd be very, very hard pressed to find a single scientist who believes that all an IQ test measures is IQ. Hell, you'd be hard-pressed to find two scientists who completely agree on what the concept of IQ represents, or even if it actually exists as we've formulated it today.

Edit: I suppose the easiest way to summarize what I've said above is this--are there differences in IQ scores across racial groups? Yes. Are they due to racial factors? Depends on who you ask.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Don''t just say "well I'm against racist laws, but the rest is up to them", instead say "I know that the races are equal and that there are still a lot of people harmed by the history of racism, and I want to see everyone have equal opportunity,

I think you're making a bold (and incorrect) assumption when you state that the races are equal. Sure, we're equal as in value as human beings, but not equal in capabilities. There are differences between races of people, and test and competitions all over the world prove this.

Do you really think that Asians can sprint as fast on average as blacks (or blacks descended from those) from Western Africa?

Do you really think that blacks from Western Africa have the build and endurance to compete with blacks from Eastern African countries like Kenya in endurance events?

Do you think that Whites, Asians, and Blacks have the same exact intellect in logical questions?

The fact of that matter is that there are differences. Certain races, on average, have certain advantages in different things. Western Africans have a more powerful build and make the fastest sprinters on Earth. They have completely dominated sprinting competitions since they've been allowed to compete. Eastern Africans are racially different than Western Africans. They have a slighter build and excel at endurance events. People from Ethiopia and Kenya are disproportionately represented in the winner's circle of marathons. Asians have always excelled at math, and SAT scores consistently reflect this from all over the country every single year.

This does not mean that one race is "better" than another. It just means we have measurable differences.

Originally posted by: Craig234
and I understand that that will mean some special efforts for a while to help undo some of those past effects still hurting people now, and that's ok to get us to the point of the 'color blind society' we all want.

This is where you will lose most people. I hasn't alive when slavery existed in the US. My ancestors didn't even live in this country when slavery existed. Why should the white people of today have to be disadvantaged by a system which is designed to lessen the amount of whites in job positions? I agree that the racism must end, but leveling that out with reverse racism is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. The Supreme Court of the United States agrees.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
because blacks are less racist, they have trouble telling the difference between white and black bubbles i guess😛


but seriously, that was bs, and obama choosing a justice that would condone such bs lowers my opinion of him significantly. i'm sick and tired of the media parroting obamas talking point about judicial empathy. does he remember a court filled with men ..white men gave women reproductive rights and blacks their rights as well.

Give it a rest. Everytime someone brings that up, they lose the argument. Diversity is good.

yea they lose because you say so😛

give it a rest, its just too damning for you to deal with is all.

Nah, you lose because it's a thinly veiled call to Racism(keep the White Guy). You have a Diverse Society? You need Diverse Representation, even in the Legal System.

lol you really lose at basic reasoning. the examples in question show that decisions were made in favor of other groups regardless of race of the judges. that you consider that a nonfactor only shows how racist you are. merit, not your skin color should matter more in all cases.

 

[unfalliblekrutch]

The biggest issue is that we're referring to race as "black" "white" "asian" and so forth. In reality, -if- there is a race based difference, it would have to be differences among races that have some sort of homogenous feature set. "White" incorporates people from a multitude of original nations and people groups, as well as plenty of mutts. So does Black, Asian, etc.

On the other hand, while the Black-White IQ gap is steadily declining, it still exists. Sure, intra group differences are larger than inter group differences, but none the less, there is a statistical difference in IQ -scores-.

In my opinion, that's a culturally induced phenomenon. Why? Within a single "race," studies have show steady and yearly increases in IQ as technology and education improve. In the same way, at least in the united states, the technology and education that "blacks" have access to on average is inferior to that of which whites have access to, again, on average.
On the other hand, if it turns out that one people group is innately better on average at a certain skill than another, that's ok too. It doesn't mean anyone is overall more deserving of anything than anyone else. We should be allowed to compete on individual merit, regardless of group superiority or inferiority at any given skill.

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
The biggest issue is that we're referring to race as "black" "white" "asian" and so forth. In reality, -if- there is a race based difference, it would have to be differences among races that have some sort of homogenous feature set. "White" incorporates people from a multitude of original nations and people groups, as well as plenty of mutts. So does Black, Asian, etc.

On the other hand, while the Black-White IQ gap is steadily declining, it still exists. Sure, intra group differences are larger than inter group differences, but none the less, there is a statistical difference in IQ -scores-.

In my opinion, that's a culturally induced phenomenon. Why? Within a single "race," studies have show steady and yearly increases in IQ as technology and education improve. In the same way, at least in the united states, the technology and education that "blacks" have access to on average is inferior to that of which whites have access to, again, on average.
On the other hand, if it turns out that one people group is innately better on average at a certain skill than another, that's ok too. It doesn't mean anyone is overall more deserving of anything than anyone else. We should be allowed to compete on individual merit, regardless of group superiority or inferiority at any given skill.

That's the trouble--when you try to break racial differences/characteristics down to the point of identifying a homogeneous feature set, there really isn't much to be seen other than perhaps locale, or possibly broad terms such as "culture." This is, again, because intra-race/culture/etc. differences are so large.

As for ever-increasing IQ scores, while this effect is generally (to an extent) accepted to exist, its causes and meaning are highly debated (much like racial differences in IQ scores).

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
because blacks are less racist, they have trouble telling the difference between white and black bubbles i guess😛


but seriously, that was bs, and obama choosing a justice that would condone such bs lowers my opinion of him significantly. i'm sick and tired of the media parroting obamas talking point about judicial empathy. does he remember a court filled with men ..white men gave women reproductive rights and blacks their rights as well.

Give it a rest. Everytime someone brings that up, they lose the argument. Diversity is good.

yea they lose because you say so😛

give it a rest, its just too damning for you to deal with is all.

Nah, you lose because it's a thinly veiled call to Racism(keep the White Guy). You have a Diverse Society? You need Diverse Representation, even in the Legal System.

lol you really lose at basic reasoning. the examples in question show that decisions were made in favor of other groups regardless of race of the judges. that you consider that a nonfactor only shows how racist you are. merit, not your skin color should matter more in all cases.

Incorrect, but thanks for playing.

 

[sonambulo]

Directions

The passages below are followed by questions based on their content; questions following a pair of related passages may also be based on the relationship between the paired passages. Answer the questions on the basis of what is stated or implied in the passages and in any introductory material that may be provided.

The questions below are based on the following passage.
"The rock was still wet. The
animal was glistening, like it was
still swimming," recalls Hou
Xianguang. Hou discovered the
Line 5 unusual fossil while surveying rocks
as a paleontology graduate student
in 1984, near the Chinese town of
Chengjiang. "My teachers always
talked about the Burgess Shale
Line 10 animals. It looked like one of them.
My hands began to shake."
Hou had indeed found a Naraoia
like those from Canada. However,
Hou's animal was 15 million years
Line 15 older than its Canadian relatives.

It can be inferred that Hou Xianguang's "hands began to shake" (line 11) because he was
(A) afraid that he might lose the fossil
(B) worried about the implications of his finding
(C) concerned that he might not get credit for his work
(D) uncertain about the authenticity of the fossil
(E) desperate to kill Whitey

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: sonambulo

Directions

The passages below are followed by questions based on their content; questions following a pair of related passages may also be based on the relationship between the paired passages. Answer the questions on the basis of what is stated or implied in the passages and in any introductory material that may be provided.

The questions below are based on the following passage.
"The rock was still wet. The
animal was glistening, like it was
still swimming," recalls Hou
Xianguang. Hou discovered the
Line 5 unusual fossil while surveying rocks
as a paleontology graduate student
in 1984, near the Chinese town of
Chengjiang. "My teachers always
talked about the Burgess Shale
Line 10 animals. It looked like one of them.
My hands began to shake."
Hou had indeed found a Naraoia
like those from Canada. However,
Hou's animal was 15 million years
Line 15 older than its Canadian relatives.

It can be inferred that Hou Xianguang's "hands began to shake" (line 11) because he was
(A) afraid that he might lose the fossil
(B) worried about the implications of his finding
(C) concerned that he might not get credit for his work
(D) uncertain about the authenticity of the fossil
(E) desperate to kill Whitey

(F) Masturbating furiously because he's a wannabe paleontology student who found a fossil.

 

[sonambulo]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
(F) Masturbating furiously because he's a wannabe paleontology student who found a fossil.

No.

 

[Lithium381]

Someone explain to me if they're so racially biased, why we have some smart black people that actually do well on these tests. Obama has an education? Bill Cosby? I went to school with black people, they did better than I did, some didin't, because they just wanted to smoke pot, but that was highschool. The ones that don't do well complain because they didn't do well.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

The other day I saw a question that was class/race inbalanced on some prep materials for the state bar exam. I forget the question, but it had something to do with a type of food and I would not have understood the question if I didn't know that.

But out of the 1000s of multiple choice questions I have taken in my life, I think less than 100 have been even POSSIBLY biased.

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: Lithium381
Someone explain to me if they're so racially biased, why we have some smart black people that actually do well on these tests. Obama has an education? Bill Cosby? I went to school with black people, they did better than I did, some didin't, because they just wanted to smoke pot, but that was highschool. The ones that don't do well complain because they didn't do well.

I'm guessing your one of the ones who didn't do well either? Do you know what bias means? Pointing out examples of success means nothing, you cannot draw conclusions from them. If I said my hispanic friend won the lottery and now he's set for life, it would be just as retarded to conclude that all hispanics don't have financial problems.
If 55% of the people of one race perform above the overall average while another race performs only 45% above average, then the test demonstrates a racial bias.
As others have pointed out, it's likely a cultural or socioeconomic bias, but those are strongly correlated with race, making it about as valid to call it a racial bias.

 

[marvdmartian]

Originally posted by: The_Dude8
What kind of books do they read that prepare them for the english portion of the sat test?

Simply reading ANY book rated for 6th grade level or above will help you out with your vocabulary score on the SAT, by improving reading comprehension, spelling, vocabulary, and writing skills, among other skills.

Until I got my first computer, I was a voracious reader (would rather read than watch the boob tube), and could go through 2-3 books a week, sometimes more. When I re-took my SAT's at the age of 33 (prepping to go back to school, thought I could improve on the combined 1120 I had in high school), I credited 2 things on my improvement. First, my age allowed me to be more comfortable with the test, and more relaxed taking it. Second, the gazillion books I'd read in the interim years gave me a much better chance at scoring well on the vocabulary section of the test.

This was proven true, imho, when I improved my math score by 100 points, and my vocabulary score by 200. :thumbsup:

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
because blacks are less racist, they have trouble telling the difference between white and black bubbles i guess😛


but seriously, that was bs, and obama choosing a justice that would condone such bs lowers my opinion of him significantly. i'm sick and tired of the media parroting obamas talking point about judicial empathy. does he remember a court filled with men ..white men gave women reproductive rights and blacks their rights as well.

Give it a rest. Everytime someone brings that up, they lose the argument. Diversity is good.

yea they lose because you say so😛

give it a rest, its just too damning for you to deal with is all.

Nah, you lose because it's a thinly veiled call to Racism(keep the White Guy). You have a Diverse Society? You need Diverse Representation, even in the Legal System.

lol you really lose at basic reasoning. the examples in question show that decisions were made in favor of other groups regardless of race of the judges. that you consider that a nonfactor only shows how racist you are. merit, not your skin color should matter more in all cases.

Incorrect, but thanks for playing.

playing😛 clearly you've lost the plot. considering what you bolded thinking you were making a point clearly its probably the trolling game.

 

[jjyiz28]

its culture baby. its all culture. asian parents beat their kids till they get good scores. black parents teach their kids to succeed you must be good in basketball, and its cool to be dumb cuz being smart is the opposite of cool. latino's are illegal aliens and don't know or wish to learn english. there... i said it. THE TRUTH HURTS

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

I'm guessing your one of the ones who didn't do well either? Do you know what bias means? Pointing out examples of success means nothing, you cannot draw conclusions from them. If I said my hispanic friend won the lottery and now he's set for life, it would be just as retarded to conclude that all hispanics don't have financial problems.
If 55% of the people of one race perform above the overall average while another race performs only 45% above average, then the test demonstrates a racial bias.
As others have pointed out, it's likely a cultural or socioeconomic bias, but those are strongly correlated with race, making it about as valid to call it a racial bias.

For those who claim that the differences in SAT and IQ test scores are due to socioeconomic factors, explain to me why poor Whites and poor Asians still score higher on those tests than wealthy blacks and hispanics? Sure, within each race, scores do rise with income. But race is a better predictor of test scores than income is. Wealthy Asians score higher than poor Asians. Wealthy blacks score higher than poor blacks. Yet poor Asians still score higher than wealthy blacks.

Everyone knows that the test scores are different among races, but those who want to be politically correct jump to the assumption that it's due to other factors instead of race, when in actuality the results follow race more closely than those other factors.

 

[Safeway]

B.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Safeway
B.

Elitist.

 

[SoulAssassin]

If Leroy had 3 pieces of chicken and he gave Jermaine 2 pieces of chicken. How many pieces of chicken would Leroy have?

The correct answer is 3, there's no way in hell Leroy is giving up his chicken to anyone especially to punk ass Jermaine. Now the white kid who said 1 would be wrong and that, my friends, is an example of a racially biased and completely inappropriate question. 🙂

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

I'm guessing your one of the ones who didn't do well either? Do you know what bias means? Pointing out examples of success means nothing, you cannot draw conclusions from them. If I said my hispanic friend won the lottery and now he's set for life, it would be just as retarded to conclude that all hispanics don't have financial problems.
If 55% of the people of one race perform above the overall average while another race performs only 45% above average, then the test demonstrates a racial bias.
As others have pointed out, it's likely a cultural or socioeconomic bias, but those are strongly correlated with race, making it about as valid to call it a racial bias.

For those who claim that the differences in SAT and IQ test scores are due to socioeconomic factors, explain to me why poor Whites and poor Asians still score higher on those tests than wealthy blacks and hispanics? Sure, within each race, scores do rise with income. But race is a better predictor of test scores than income is. Wealthy Asians score higher than poor Asians. Wealthy blacks score higher than poor blacks. Yet poor Asians still score higher than wealthy blacks.

Everyone knows that the test scores are different among races, but those who want to be politically correct jump to the assumption that it's due to other factors instead of race, when in actuality the results follow race more closely than those other factors.

you're absolutely correct sir. ill cut through the BS PC crap even further. blacks are the dumbest, then hispanics, whites score around 100 in the IQ, asians around 107, and jews are the smartest at 110.

 

[KMFJD]

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

I'm guessing your one of the ones who didn't do well either? Do you know what bias means? Pointing out examples of success means nothing, you cannot draw conclusions from them. If I said my hispanic friend won the lottery and now he's set for life, it would be just as retarded to conclude that all hispanics don't have financial problems.
If 55% of the people of one race perform above the overall average while another race performs only 45% above average, then the test demonstrates a racial bias.
As others have pointed out, it's likely a cultural or socioeconomic bias, but those are strongly correlated with race, making it about as valid to call it a racial bias.

For those who claim that the differences in SAT and IQ test scores are due to socioeconomic factors, explain to me why poor Whites and poor Asians still score higher on those tests than wealthy blacks and hispanics? Sure, within each race, scores do rise with income. But race is a better predictor of test scores than income is. Wealthy Asians score higher than poor Asians. Wealthy blacks score higher than poor blacks. Yet poor Asians still score higher than wealthy blacks.

Everyone knows that the test scores are different among races, but those who want to be politically correct jump to the assumption that it's due to other factors instead of race, when in actuality the results follow race more closely than those other factors.

you're absolutely correct sir. ill cut through the BS PC crap even further. blacks are the dumbest, then hispanics, whites score around 100 in the IQ, asians around 107, and jews are the smartest at 110.

What about black Jews?

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
For those who claim that the differences in SAT and IQ test scores are due to socioeconomic factors, explain to me why poor Whites and poor Asians still score higher on those tests than wealthy blacks and hispanics? Sure, within each race, scores do rise with income. But race is a better predictor of test scores than income is. Wealthy Asians score higher than poor Asians. Wealthy blacks score higher than poor blacks. Yet poor Asians still score higher than wealthy blacks.

Everyone knows that the test scores are different among races, but those who want to be politically correct jump to the assumption that it's due to other factors instead of race, when in actuality the results follow race more closely than those other factors.

You have to control more than simply wealth. You also have to control the level of education when talking about matters like this.

Also, I want to see stats that show that poor whites score higher than wealthy blacks. Poor Asians I can maybe see, as Asians generally emphasize education, regardless of class. However, the poor whites where I grew up were pretty dumb and educated. I'm talking about struggling to get a 21 on the ACT so they can make it into the state university. most of them stagnated around 16-18, though, and had to go to worse schools.

Just because of their socioeconomic class may be similar doesn't mean that they received the same education or that their community resources are similar.

Since Asians score higher than whites on these tests, do you conclude that Asians are inherently smarter than whites?

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: KMFJD

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

I'm guessing your one of the ones who didn't do well either? Do you know what bias means? Pointing out examples of success means nothing, you cannot draw conclusions from them. If I said my hispanic friend won the lottery and now he's set for life, it would be just as retarded to conclude that all hispanics don't have financial problems.
If 55% of the people of one race perform above the overall average while another race performs only 45% above average, then the test demonstrates a racial bias.
As others have pointed out, it's likely a cultural or socioeconomic bias, but those are strongly correlated with race, making it about as valid to call it a racial bias.

For those who claim that the differences in SAT and IQ test scores are due to socioeconomic factors, explain to me why poor Whites and poor Asians still score higher on those tests than wealthy blacks and hispanics? Sure, within each race, scores do rise with income. But race is a better predictor of test scores than income is. Wealthy Asians score higher than poor Asians. Wealthy blacks score higher than poor blacks. Yet poor Asians still score higher than wealthy blacks.

Everyone knows that the test scores are different among races, but those who want to be politically correct jump to the assumption that it's due to other factors instead of race, when in actuality the results follow race more closely than those other factors.

you're absolutely correct sir. ill cut through the BS PC crap even further. blacks are the dumbest, then hispanics, whites score around 100 in the IQ, asians around 107, and jews are the smartest at 110.

What about black Jews?

I guess it would average out to being white.

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: Syringer
The SATs are often cited as being racially biased but Asians do so well on them, explain that!

Is that a joke, or are you contradicting yourself?

By saying that Asians do well just gives more evidence that it is racially biased - toward giving an advantage to Asians.

 

[oogabooga]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Syringer
The SATs are often cited as being racially biased but Asians do so well on them, explain that!

Is that a joke, or are you contradicting yourself?

By saying that Asians do well just gives more evidence that it is racially biased - toward giving an advantage to Asians.

I'm pretty sure it was a joke - or at least not 100% serious.

And I don't think Asians doing well indicates there are questions with a racial bias on standardized exams. Although I don't think that's what this thread is about persay anymore. Certainly there are other factors that matter which everyone else is talking about but I don't think any one question would be easier if you were one race or another.