I don't see how a question on a standardized test (SAT,GMAT,GRE,etc) could be racially biased

[AccruedExpenditure]

Or at least explain the rationale of people who suggest standardized tests are biased. (Outside of the achievement gap)
-AE

 

[zerocool84]

It's the name on the test, not the test itself.

 

[Ronstang]

Some minorities are not willing to compete on a level playing field, because many of them cannot. It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with culture. Since everyone pretty much goes through the public school system to get to the point where a standardized test is administered any lack of performance is due to the individual....not the answer they want so it has to be racially biased to explain the lack of performance.

 

[Kanalua]

One I heard was a black lady complaining about a question that involved a regatta... she was like: no black kids knows what a regatta is. But the question was about distance and time, the regatta was just the scene (like a train leaving City A traveling to city B at 40 mph at 9 pm, etc)...

I think it is baloney. I'm a racial minority (more of a minority than blacks in America), my people's land was stolen, their Kingdom trashed, and I did just fine on ever single standardized test I've ever taken, from PSAT, to SAT, ACT, LSAT and BAR... The results on test are a measure of preparation more than anything...

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Kanalua
One I heard was a black lady complaining about a question that involved a regatta... she was like: no black kids knows what a regatta is. But the question was about distance and time, the regatta was just the scene (like a train leaving City A traveling to city B at 40 mph at 9 pm, etc)...

I think it is baloney. I'm a racial minority (more of a minority than blacks in America), my people's land was stolen, their Kingdom trashed, and I did just fine on ever single standardized test I've ever taken, from PSAT, to SAT, ACT, LSAT and BAR... The results on test are a measure of preparation more than anything...

<--- doesn't know what a regatta is. 🙁

 

[Mo0o]

yeah the racial thing is retarded. but theres a big economic disadvantage but that's true for all things in life.

 

[mugs]

A question on a standardized test can be racially biased if one race is substantially more or less likely to know the answer for reasons that are unrelated to what is being tested. Example SAT question:

Jay Z : Eminem :: P. Diddy : ______

Perhaps a bad example since so many white people listen to rap music, but you get the point - the test isn't supposed to be testing your knowledge of rap music, but answering that question correctly requires knowledge of rap music.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure
Or at least explain the rationale of people who suggest standardized tests are biased. (Outside of the achievement gap)
-AE

the example used in my psych class a few years ago was a SAT question that involved mortgages. The argument was that minorities (particularly inner city minorities) were less likely to know what a mortgage was than suburban whites. I'm not sure exactly how essential the meaning of a mortgage was to solve the problem though.

 

[IEC]

I hate it when I see bullshit like this and the New Haven firefighters' promotion exam fiasco. Thankfully the Supreme Court affirmed that New Haven's decision was not wrong.

The Supreme Court (barely) made the right decision.

I was just meh about Sotomayor until I actually started reading some of her decisions, in particular her summary affirmation of the district court ruling in this case. Now I think she's a poor excuse for a judge and has no business being on the Supreme Court.

Washington v. Davis is conspicuously absent from Sotomayor's ruling.

She and others like her advocate distributive justice (equal outcomes) in the guise of equal opportunity. Equal opportunity is NOT equal to equal outcomes.

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: mugs
A question on a standardized test can be racially biased if one race is substantially more or less likely to know the answer for reasons that are unrelated to what is being tested. Example SAT question:

Jay Z : Eminem :: P. Diddy : ______

Perhaps a bad example since so many white people listen to rap music, but you get the point - the test isn't supposed to be testing your knowledge of rap music, but answering that question correctly requires knowledge of rap music.

An example would be alluding to a fable or allegory that is told predominantly in some subset of cultures. If a question in the English section said a boy was known to cry wolf or that his reaction to a friend's success was sour grapes, a person who hadn't heard those tales would be at a disadvantage.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Kanalua
One I heard was a black lady complaining about a question that involved a regatta... she was like: no black kids knows what a regatta is. But the question was about distance and time, the regatta was just the scene (like a train leaving City A traveling to city B at 40 mph at 9 pm, etc)...

I think it is baloney. I'm a racial minority (more of a minority than blacks in America), my people's land was stolen, their Kingdom trashed, and I did just fine on ever single standardized test I've ever taken, from PSAT, to SAT, ACT, LSAT and BAR... The results on test are a measure of preparation more than anything...

<--- doesn't know what a regatta is. 🙁

It's a fancy schmancy variety of cottage cheese.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: mugs
A question on a standardized test can be racially biased if one race is substantially more or less likely to know the answer for reasons that are unrelated to what is being tested. Example SAT question:

Jay Z : Eminem :: P. Diddy : ______

Perhaps a bad example since so many white people listen to rap music, but you get the point - the test isn't supposed to be testing your knowledge of rap music, but answering that question correctly requires knowledge of rap music.

An example would be alluding to a fable or allegory that is told predominantly in some subset of cultures. If a question in the English section said a boy was known to cry wolf or that his reaction to a friend's success was sour grapes, a person who hadn't heard those tales would be at a disadvantage.

and I'm sure that some kids in disadvantaged areas would know what that is cus they either read or watch movies.

 

[Syringer]

The SATs are often cited as being racially biased but Asians do so well on them, explain that!

 

[episodic]

Testing companies tend to go to great lengths to avoid bias.

I get tired of the whole race thing, too. I think we are all people. Some people are very intelligent - some are not. . . why can't it be that simple.

I come from a very documented Irish family that came over during the potato famine. Our family scrapped themselves up from absolutely nothing. Have no idea when my lineage decided to stop in the south central USA - that is my only complaint 🙂

My mother was a sharecropper (read slave for all practical purposes) and her mother was as well. I was the first person in my family event to go to college. Having been born and raised in a land locked state and never in 15 years of growing leaving the small rural city of 8,000 where I was born - I knew what a regatta was - why? Because I read books. They are even free at the library.


Read.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: mugs
A question on a standardized test can be racially biased if one race is substantially more or less likely to know the answer for reasons that are unrelated to what is being tested. Example SAT question:

Jay Z : Eminem :: P. Diddy : ______

Perhaps a bad example since so many white people listen to rap music, but you get the point - the test isn't supposed to be testing your knowledge of rap music, but answering that question correctly requires knowledge of rap music.

An example would be alluding to a fable or allegory that is told predominantly in some subset of cultures. If a question in the English section said a boy was known to cry wolf or that his reaction to a friend's success was sour grapes, a person who hadn't heard those tales would be at a disadvantage.

and I'm sure that some kids in disadvantaged areas would know what that is cus they either read or watch movies.

Way to completely miss the point, which is that tests should minimize reliance on knowledge of outside information that is unrelated to what is being tested. The SAT is not intended to measure your knowledge of fables.

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: mugs
A question on a standardized test can be racially biased if one race is substantially more or less likely to know the answer for reasons that are unrelated to what is being tested. Example SAT question:

Jay Z : Eminem :: P. Diddy : ______

Perhaps a bad example since so many white people listen to rap music, but you get the point - the test isn't supposed to be testing your knowledge of rap music, but answering that question correctly requires knowledge of rap music.

An example would be alluding to a fable or allegory that is told predominantly in some subset of cultures. If a question in the English section said a boy was known to cry wolf or that his reaction to a friend's success was sour grapes, a person who hadn't heard those tales would be at a disadvantage.

and I'm sure that some kids in disadvantaged areas would know what that is cus they either read or watch movies.

Wow, do you even know what predominantly means? Obviously some kids will know it. The entire point is if it's an equitable percent across racial groups.

 

[imported_Imp]

They probably confused racial bias with cultural bias. According to my anthropology class, the SATs are biased against people who aren't brought up to learn in the traditional western classroom (i.e. listen to teacher, shut up, read book, do homework). These people prefer more discussion, and hands on learning styles because that's how they are brought up. And thus, they are programmed to fail at doing SATs that are based on western studying techniques.

That's all I remember from the chapter about that (not even sure I got it right), do some googling.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Chronoshock

Originally posted by: mugs
A question on a standardized test can be racially biased if one race is substantially more or less likely to know the answer for reasons that are unrelated to what is being tested. Example SAT question:

Jay Z : Eminem :: P. Diddy : ______

Perhaps a bad example since so many white people listen to rap music, but you get the point - the test isn't supposed to be testing your knowledge of rap music, but answering that question correctly requires knowledge of rap music.

An example would be alluding to a fable or allegory that is told predominantly in some subset of cultures. If a question in the English section said a boy was known to cry wolf or that his reaction to a friend's success was sour grapes, a person who hadn't heard those tales would be at a disadvantage.

and I'm sure that some kids in disadvantaged areas would know what that is cus they either read or watch movies.

Way to completely miss the point, which is that tests should minimize reliance on knowledge of outside information that is unrelated to what is being tested. The SAT is not intended to measure your knowledge of fables.

I kind of disagree. We all need to understand western culture. The fact that this knowledge may make some people not perform as well should be something that a college knows about a potential applicant. Lots of classes require a wide swath of background knowledge that only comes from understanding culture and a wide minutia of seemingly unrelated facts.

Now, I agree the math section should be straight forward - the English section may indeed be tough for someone that has not availed themselves of the opportunity to read classic works. English isn't so much just form and function - it has a 'spirit' as well which comes from repeated allusions to works of fiction which have helped to form the language. It is similar to the feelings I get from the word "shrew" because I have read and comprehended "The Taming of the Shrew". It wasn't required of me in school, I made it a point to read the collected works of William Shakespeare? Why? I knew that understanding great works of fiction would help me to understand the language better than the 20 vocabulary words that my English teacher assigned every week ever would.

So I probably have a deeper understanding of the word "shrew" and "shrewd" than one of my classmates that spent all of their time playing (at the time) their atari 7800 or listening to the latest Guns and Roses album. . . (I'm really dating myself here).


I was a self starter though and I felt a deep appreciation for learning what I could on my own.

My opinion isn't worth alot - but I think that people (all people) should be more willing to appreciate that their personal effort is what drives their success or lack of it.

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: episodic
I kind of disagree. We all need to understand western culture. The fact that this knowledge may make some people not perform as well should be something that a college knows about a potential applicant. Lots of classes require a wide swath of background knowledge that only comes from understanding culture and a wide minutia of seemingly unrelated facts.

Now, I agree the math section should be straight forward - the English section may indeed be tough for someone that has not availed themselves of the opportunity to read classic works. English isn't so much just form and function - it has a 'spirit' as well which comes from repeated allusions to works of fiction which have helped to form the language. It is similar to the feelings I get from the word "shrew" because I have read and comprehended "The Taming of the Shrew". It wasn't required of me in school, I made it a point to read the collected works of William Shakespeare? Why? I knew that understanding great works of fiction would help me to understand the language better than the 20 vocabulary words that my English teacher assigned every week ever would.

So I probably have a deeper understanding of the word "shrew" and "shrewd" than one of my classmates that spent all of their time playing (at the time) their atari 7800 or listening to the latest Guns and Roses album. . . (I'm really dating myself here).


I was a self starter though and I felt a deep appreciation for learning what I could on my own.

My opinion isn't worth alot - but I think that people (all people) should be more willing to appreciate that their personal effort is what drives their success or lack of it.

I understand your point, there are some who put a heavy emphasis on a classical western literary education. Is the English portion of the SATs testing that? I wouldn't necessarily say so. What standardized testing should address is a separate topic though. My opinion is that currently, the SAT is attempting to gauge reading comprehension, basic understanding of English grammatical structures, and reading and writing persuasive essays. There really isn't a heavy emphasis on factual knowledge (derived from a classical western education), only an incidental connection that they are trying to eliminate.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Originally posted by: episodic
Testing companies tend to go to great lengths to avoid bias.

I get tired of the whole race thing, too. I think we are all people. Some people are very intelligent - some are not. . . why can't it be that simple.

I come from a very documented Irish family that came over during the potato famine. Our family scrapped themselves up from absolutely nothing. Have no idea when my lineage decided to stop in the south central USA - that is my only complaint 🙂

My mother was a sharecropper (read slave for all practical purposes) and her mother was as well. I was the first person in my family event to go to college. Having been born and raised in a land locked state and never in 15 years of growing leaving the small rural city of 8,000 where I was born - I knew what a regatta was - why? Because I read books. They are even free at the library.


Read.

"Once you learn to read, you will forever be free."

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: episodic
I kind of disagree. We all need to understand western culture. The fact that this knowledge may make some people not perform as well should be something that a college knows about a potential applicant. Lots of classes require a wide swath of background knowledge that only comes from understanding culture and a wide minutia of seemingly unrelated facts.

Requiring knowledge of western culture is fine if the SAT claims to test your math and verbal skills and your knowledge of western culture. But the SAT only claims to test your math and verbal skills.

You can test whatever you want, but if you want to effectively test what you claim to test, you need to design your questions to only test what you're trying to test. Test test.

Imp made a good point - it's cultural bias, not racial bias.

It is not my opinion that any of the tests the OP referenced ARE biased, I'm merely stating how they could be biased. As you said, testing companies are very careful to design effective questions.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: episodic
I kind of disagree. We all need to understand western culture. The fact that this knowledge may make some people not perform as well should be something that a college knows about a potential applicant. Lots of classes require a wide swath of background knowledge that only comes from understanding culture and a wide minutia of seemingly unrelated facts.

Requiring knowledge of western culture is fine if the SAT claims to test your math and verbal skills and your knowledge of western culture. But the SAT only claims to test your math and verbal skills.

You can test whatever you want, but if you want to effectively test what you claim to test, you need to design your questions to only test what you're trying to test. Test test.

Imp made a good point - it's cultural bias, not racial bias.

It is not my opinion that any of the tests the OP referenced ARE biased, I'm merely stating how they could be biased. As you said, testing companies are very careful to design effective questions.

Then why do Asians, Indians, and other races do so well?

Cus they read

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Then why do Asians, Indians, and other races do so well?

Cus they read

You have once again completely missed the point. And you even made the same mistake as the last time. :thumbsup:

 

[The_Dude8]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: episodic
I kind of disagree. We all need to understand western culture. The fact that this knowledge may make some people not perform as well should be something that a college knows about a potential applicant. Lots of classes require a wide swath of background knowledge that only comes from understanding culture and a wide minutia of seemingly unrelated facts.

Requiring knowledge of western culture is fine if the SAT claims to test your math and verbal skills and your knowledge of western culture. But the SAT only claims to test your math and verbal skills.

You can test whatever you want, but if you want to effectively test what you claim to test, you need to design your questions to only test what you're trying to test. Test test.

Imp made a good point - it's cultural bias, not racial bias.

It is not my opinion that any of the tests the OP referenced ARE biased, I'm merely stating how they could be biased. As you said, testing companies are very careful to design effective questions.

Then why do Asians, Indians, and other races do so well?

Cus they read

What kind of books do they read that prepare them for the english portion of the sat test?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: Kanalua
One I heard was a black lady complaining about a question that involved a regatta... she was like: no black kids knows what a regatta is. But the question was about distance and time, the regatta was just the scene (like a train leaving City A traveling to city B at 40 mph at 9 pm, etc)...

I think it is baloney. I'm a racial minority (more of a minority than blacks in America), my people's land was stolen, their Kingdom trashed, and I did just fine on ever single standardized test I've ever taken, from PSAT, to SAT, ACT, LSAT and BAR... The results on test are a measure of preparation more than anything...

<--- doesn't know what a regatta is. 🙁

isn't it like a boat thing?