I dont agree with having to pay to play online.

[Markbnj]

It's almost sad the OP has no grounding in reality whatsoever.

Agreed, and one of the realities in which the OP has no grounding is the technical reality.

Games like Battlefield 2 require almost no database capacity on the server side. Private servers require no database at all. The account servers use databases, but keep only a few bytes of information per character and read/write it infrequently.

A game like World of Warcraft requires truly massive online database capacity, at very high transaction volumes. Much of the world is persistent on the server side: objects are persistent, players are persistent, NPC are persistent, etc., etc.

Let's talk capacity. Assume 25% of the 5m subscribers of WoW are playing at any one time. 1,250,000 people online.

Without getting into specifics of how often the game reads the database for any particular client (i.e. if you are standing in an empty wilderness not moving, then it would only have to read every second or so to detect objects moving into your clipping envelop), it's fair to assume a capacity requirement of 500,000 to 1,500,000 transactions per second, with mean response times < 50-250 ms.

Bandwidth: fair to assume that WoW requires a 32 kbps stream, with higher bursts. You're looking at 48 million kbps. That's something like 38 gigabits of bandwidth. Or really, 76 gigabits, since you need redundant pipes.

What about hardware? Oh boy, they need some hardware . Thousands of servers, hundreds of routers and switches, at least. Storage? Very high throughput SANs with... damn, I have no idea... Terabytes with a capital T.

Datacenters to house all this stuff? Kinda expensive. Air conditioning, generators, people expect these games to be as reliable as Citibank's applications.

Business infrastructure to support it all? Haha. The OP clearly cannot imagine. I don't know Blizzard's monthly overhead costs, but an educated guess would be... umm... bazillions.

So good luck with those free WoW servers .

 

[fishbits]

If you need more money, sue your school district for releasing you into the world with the economic literacy of an eight year old. There are plenty of things in this world that I can't afford, but that doesn't mean there's unfairness, or that I'm entitled to steal them. But if you honestly can't afford fifteen bucks a month, stop spending time posting on forums and get a paper route, cut some lawns, wash some windshields or pick up cans for recycling. Or if you're unwilling to help others by working for that fifty cents a day, then stop assuming you're entitled to the fruits of other people's labor for free.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: fishbits
If you need more money, sue your school district for releasing you into the world with the economic literacy of an eight year old. There are plenty of things in this world that I can't afford, but that doesn't mean there's unfairness, or that I'm entitled to steal them. But if you honestly can't afford fifteen bucks a month, stop spending time posting on forums and get a paper route, cut some lawns, wash some windshields or pick up cans for recycling. Or if you're unwilling to help others by working for that fifty cents a day, then stop assuming you're entitled to the fruits of other people's labor for free.

:Q Pwnd?

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: ciproxr
... but our jobs arent giving us raises...

I hypothesize a direct correlation between this problem and the amount of time you spend playing games.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: fishbits
If you need more money, sue your school district for releasing you into the world with the economic literacy of an eight year old. There are plenty of things in this world that I can't afford, but that doesn't mean there's unfairness, or that I'm entitled to steal them. But if you honestly can't afford fifteen bucks a month, stop spending time posting on forums and get a paper route, cut some lawns, wash some windshields or pick up cans for recycling. Or if you're unwilling to help others by working for that fifty cents a day, then stop assuming you're entitled to the fruits of other people's labor for free.

Well said!

 

[Noema]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: fishbits
If you need more money, sue your school district for releasing you into the world with the economic literacy of an eight year old. There are plenty of things in this world that I can't afford, but that doesn't mean there's unfairness, or that I'm entitled to steal them. But if you honestly can't afford fifteen bucks a month, stop spending time posting on forums and get a paper route, cut some lawns, wash some windshields or pick up cans for recycling. Or if you're unwilling to help others by working for that fifty cents a day, then stop assuming you're entitled to the fruits of other people's labor for free.

:Q Pwnd?

As WTFBBQPWNED as one can get, I assume.

Markbnj also made some great points.

 

[ciproxr]

Originally posted by: fishbits
If you need more money, sue your school district for releasing you into the world with the economic literacy of an eight year old. There are plenty of things in this world that I can't afford, but that doesn't mean there's unfairness, or that I'm entitled to steal them. But if you honestly can't afford fifteen bucks a month, stop spending time posting on forums and get a paper route, cut some lawns, wash some windshields or pick up cans for recycling. Or if you're unwilling to help others by working for that fifty cents a day, then stop assuming you're entitled to the fruits of other people's labor for free.

like you have never downloaded an illegal MP3

 

[Litchfield285]

Originally posted by: fishbits
If you need more money, sue your school district for releasing you into the world with the economic literacy of an eight year old. There are plenty of things in this world that I can't afford, but that doesn't mean there's unfairness, or that I'm entitled to steal them. But if you honestly can't afford fifteen bucks a month, stop spending time posting on forums and get a paper route, cut some lawns, wash some windshields or pick up cans for recycling. Or if you're unwilling to help others by working for that fifty cents a day, then stop assuming you're entitled to the fruits of other people's labor for free.

Amen.

 

[PrayForDeath]

Originally posted by: ciproxr
I dont agree with paying to play a game online ......Theres no reason for it.

Look at battlefield , some manny people have their own servers that you can play on.....i cant see how its that much different than WOW, i mean how much more bandwidth could wow consume ? Theres always people will lots of spare bandwidth that are willing to host servers, or people that would relly on donations alone, that way who ever can afford to donates....Look at all the bittorent sites that rely on donations for dedicated servers......

anyone who sais paying to play wow online is the only way dosent know what hes talking about , theres always ways around things.....your trying to tell me their not making any money off the monthly fee ? its only to maintain servers ? bullsh!t.........

there are tons of free WOW servers you can play on , and as a matter of fact i have played on a few of them for short while.....of course there is a possibility that your character might be lost do to the server going down but hey for free is worth it......most of the time the servers are perfectly stable, I would even post a link to 100's of free servers if anandtech supported warez

Prices are getting higher and higher but our jobs arent giving us raises.....Do you guys honestly believe most people who could afford to pay would choose to pirate something ?

If i told u guys how much I make you would probably laugh ......

Paying for a cellphone , cable, internet, car payment or a gas bill is not the same as paying to play a game online......

So if someone is less fortunate and cant afford to pay to play i guess that just too bad huh ? let me guess, life isnt fair, well you're right life isnt fair thats why people "unfairly" pirate software and games......

please excuse my typos....

A game like WoW cannot rely on customers' servers. First, there's stability and maintenance issues. Everybody will have a different setup, and their servers won't be available 24/7.

And the game does take a TON of bandwidth to synchronize every bit of detail in the world with the servers AND everybody playing, every second!

I have read an article on Maximum PC (or was it PC Gamer?) several months ago that talked in detail about MMO servers and the resources that are needed to keep them running. It's really more than just another BF2 server.

I actually find it cheap entertainment to just pay 15$ (or less) a month and have fun for countless hours.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

I think this has more concrete evidence than the starter of this thread....

http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.jpg

 

[Cander]

Come back when you are succesfully running multiple servers supporting thousands of people using extensive bandwidth 24 hours a day 7 days a week for free. Then you can lecture people on how wrong it is to make people pay to play.

 

[ciproxr]

Originally posted by: Cander
Come back when you are succesfully running multiple servers supporting thousands of people using extensive bandwidth 24 hours a day 7 days a week for free. Then you can lecture people on how wrong it is to make people pay to play.

maybe i will

as for some of the other people that replied, no need to insult someone just for having a different opinion, i have read your post and still believe theres a better way of doing things......

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: ciproxr

Originally posted by: Cander
Come back when you are succesfully running multiple servers supporting thousands of people using extensive bandwidth 24 hours a day 7 days a week for free. Then you can lecture people on how wrong it is to make people pay to play.

maybe i will

as for some of the other people that replied, no need to insult someone just for having a different opinion, i have read your post and still believe theres a better way of doing things......

Hes actually right if you think about it. Advertising sponsorship!!! That would be awsome, i would run out and buy free WOW asap if it was AD sponsored.

 

[Continuity28]

Originally posted by: ciproxr
Paying for a cellphone , cable, internet, car payment or a gas bill is not the same as paying to play a game online......

No, it isn't different. You are paying for a service the seller has deemed to be a worth a certain amount. If you disagree with the amount or idea, then you don't use the service. They are all the exact same thing however.

They deserve compensation, you don't deserve a free ride. Playing on "free" servers just means you don't help share the price of everything involved, the host is taking all the charges to himself. Most don't last, most aren't fast, and most won't care what happens to your account. If you want to play the real game with thousands of people on fast and stable official servers, you'll need to pay up. You could have made enough to support many YEARS worth of subscriptions in the time you spent on these forums alone. Price is no excuse... this is cheap as hell.

 

[Madwand1]

While I think a reasonable public+child protection argument could be made for keeping deliberately addictive and time-consuming + subscription sucking games out of the hands of those who cannot control themselves well enough all the time (like me), um, what was my point. I forgot, yeah, ban them!

 

[JDrake]

Originally posted by: RBachman
Don't pay then, problem solved.

In the meanwhile, I'll continue to enjoy the rich, immersive, persistent world a nominal monthly fee buys, which can't be replicated in any way. I'll continue to pay for it with a fraction of the money I save by not having a cable bill. Not being able to watch people eating slugs is something I can live with.

TV > WoW
variety FTW

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ciproxr

Originally posted by: Cander
Come back when you are succesfully running multiple servers supporting thousands of people using extensive bandwidth 24 hours a day 7 days a week for free. Then you can lecture people on how wrong it is to make people pay to play.

maybe i will

as for some of the other people that replied, no need to insult someone just for having a different opinion, i have read your post and still believe theres a better way of doing things......

"insult"?

a thief should never feel insulted for being called a thief . . .

 

[Oakenfold]

So you aren't willing to pay for WoW?
Have you ever gone to a movie? Ever gone out on a date? I guarantee that most of the time you have spent less on WoW on a monthly basis than the one time to the movie, out on a date, whatever. If you can't scrape together a monthly fee to pay for a videogame you shouldn't be playing in the first place (also how you afforded the software in the first place is beyond me or why you would want to purchase it).

You have no idea what you are talking about with regard to the bandwidth consumption required to host a server of over 1k plus people, you cannot compare this to a BF2 server, and yes heaven forbid Blizzard is making money off their game and business model as I don't think they came into the business of making games just to make sure you had something to do to keep from being bored and whining on BBS forums on the net.

 

[Madwand1]

OK, I remembered my point. It's completely absurd to try to say that companies shouldn't be doing this. Companies exist to make money (sometimes there's a product or service in mind as well, but if there isn't good money involved, there's no conventional company, it's not for profit, charity, whatever, but it's not a commercial company). It's completely pointless to try to say that a company should be doing something for free when it's in-your-face evident that they're making tons of money from doing this, and that there are tons of people willing to pay for it. It really doesn't matter what it costs to make something, the only thing that matters is what they can get for it. WoW for now is getting lots for it, and players are eager willing to do that deal, and are in fact hungry for even more content to be provided as part of that deal down the road, and will even pay for an additional upgrade cost for the next package.

So the OP's point, although perhaps interesting as an abstract point of view, has no relevance whatsoever to what WoW's doing. And the only way this will change, if ever, is if other companies start undercutting WoW's prices with a good product. Doing that is not easy, and really the motivation for providing such very expensive products to build and support while competing with the rest of the world and dealing with players' fickle tastes, competing for the very limited and already stressed personal time of the players is to make tons of money, so the competitors are going to cut prices with great reluctance. Only the losers, who cannot attract enough customers who are willingly parting with their personal time and money on a subscription basis, are going to do so, going on some other money-raising strategy.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: joedrake

Originally posted by: RBachman
Don't pay then, problem solved.

In the meanwhile, I'll continue to enjoy the rich, immersive, persistent world a nominal monthly fee buys, which can't be replicated in any way. I'll continue to pay for it with a fraction of the money I save by not having a cable bill. Not being able to watch people eating slugs is something I can live with.

TV > WoW
variety FTW

Crap is crap, regardless of differing colors and odor signatures.