I didn't know Amazon could remotely wipe your Kindle clean of all content

[lxskllr]

The only problem is that the facts aren't properly appreciated by the customers. I suspect most people don't realise they aren't buying the book (or software etc) but are only renting it. Hence the price is probably being set much too high at present.

That's because mainstream news fails in it's task to educate the population. They're more concerned with some stupid Hollywood bitch's tits, than anything that actually affects people, and the important decisions people need to make.

 

[Cerb]

Surely there's a strong argument for saying the market just needs to find its own level? That is, nobody forces anyone to accept these contracts, if people don't like it they don't have to buy (or 'rent') the item. Prices should adjust downwards to make up for the reduced utility these things offer.

There is that argument, but in practice, it often doesn't work, because there's price-fixing and an inability to make truly fair comparisons. Hence, regulating markets.

FI, there might be much more money to be made by a flat 1/2 paperback price on any and all e-books, than by pricing esoteric authors at near nothing, and popular authors, or text books, at similar prices to a real book. But, that's not going to happen unless the providers of the content are pushed into it, because they want to maximize margins, and want to avoid the risk that low e-book prices may negatively effect their real book business.

And of course companies like Amazon are in no hurry to make the true situation clear (hence the references to 'buy', and the licencing stuff being hidden away in tiny print on EULAs that nobody reads).

No doubt about it.

I mean, I don't know about ebooks, but for software it makes me laugh how not only are the EULA's (probably deliberately) made long and unreadable, but often they deliberately force you to read them in a tiny, unresizable, scrolling window, where you can only see a small part of it at a time, presumably so as to further discourage you from bothering to read them at all.

Also, large portions are not enforceable, sometimes including the whole agreement.

 

[natto fire]

my point is if you don't like the terms, don't sign the deal.

Careful using rational thought around all these entitlement impaired posters...

 

[lxskllr]

Careful using rational thought around all these entitlement impaired posters...

Yea, fuck those people expecting their longstanding rights to be upheld. Heil Amazon!

 

[natto fire]

Yea, fuck those people expecting their longstanding rights to be upheld. Heil Amazon!

I was actually referring to what I was quoting. Not understanding a contract does not give you extra rights in how it is bound to you. As far as I know, Amazon, or any DRM shitshow operation, is not forcing anyone to agree to their contracts. There are, and probably always will be, alternatives to "the new digital life" or whatever f'd, twitted, zombie media is calling it these days, the question is how far do you go with avoiding retarded contracts. You are posting on this forum, so obviously not too extreme.

My point is not to submit to any central draconian authority, it is to take personal responsibility for your own actions. Or basically what CPA said in his first post:

Look, if you don't want their service and play by their rules, don't accept their offer to use their service.

The problem of course is that most people do not want inconvenience themselves enough to boycott a product or company, because so many people think the world revolves around them, conflicts and poor decisions are someone else's fault. So the closest I would ever get to Heiling would probably be Ron Paul, and even then it would not be blindly.

 

[shadow9d9]

When you buy an ebook from amazon, you are renting it. That is why I will not do so!

 

[lxskllr]

I was actually referring to what I was quoting. Not understanding a contract does not give you extra rights in how it is bound to you. As far as I know, Amazon, or any DRM shitshow operation, is not forcing anyone to agree to their contracts. There are, and probably always will be, alternatives to "the new digital life" or whatever f'd, twitted, zombie media is calling it these days, the question is how far do you go with avoiding retarded contracts. You are posting on this forum, so obviously not too extreme.

My point is not to submit to any central draconian authority, it is to take personal responsibility for your own actions. Or basically what CPA said in his first post:

The problem of course is that most people do not want inconvenience themselves enough to boycott a product or company, because so many people think the world revolves around them, conflicts and poor decisions are someone else's fault. So the closest I would ever get to Heiling would probably be Ron Paul, and even then it would not be blindly.

Fair enough. I can appreciate that :^)

 

[Cerb]

When you buy an ebook from amazon, you are renting it. That is why I will not do so!

It is why I will not do so at the current price levels. While I'm generally anti-DRM, for enough of a price cut, I would be willing to accept the risks. As things stand, there seem to be authors with cheap books that just aren't getting published physically (I can think of a couple I wish had this opportunity, actually), and then e-books that are so close to physical book prices I just don't see it being worth it. I like the technology, but it's going to take either across-the-board price drops, or a color e-ink tablet, to get me on board (and, the color e-ink would just be for the tablet part, as that would make the 'reader' worth it without anything to read on it).

While Steam may do something similar with everyday prices, they have tons of sales going on, all the time, so it's usually a waiting game with them, if you have similar view; and old titles tend to be cheap enough every day not to really care.

 

[pmv]

While Steam may do something similar with everyday prices, they have tons of sales going on, all the time, so it's usually a waiting game with them, if you have similar view; and old titles tend to be cheap enough every day not to really care.

Yeah, I was always "I'm never buying anything on Steam, what a terrible deal, everything you buy forever at the mercy of their deciding to rescind it? And no fixed-media backup you have to labouriously download stuff if you lose it or get a new PC? Terrible, terrible deal, not for me...Wait? What's this...a sale you say? Um, oh, er well tha's damn cheap, just this once then...um..."

Now have oodles of Steam games bought dirt-cheap on sales which I'm never going to get round to playing.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I buy most of my ebooks from Baen.com, which charges $6 for new releases and offers bundles on older books. Many authors even have the first book of a series available for free.

Amazon wasn't able to offer good prices because of the publishers "allegedly" colluding with Apple to fix retail prices. Now that the cartel is being busted by the DoJ we should start seeing some better prices.

Yes, Steam has prices set by the software publishers too, but they act independently instead of as a cartel, and there is no "Most Favored Nation" clause where Steam can never offer a game for less than Apple does. Software publishers also have realized that low prices on older titles helps them make more money, while book publishers are still clinging to 20th-century pricing models based on dead tree costs.

Once Amazon is able to offer decent sale prices, they can hopefully show the publishers that they shouldn't try to charge $8 for a 5-year old novel.

 

[Cerb]

Now have oodles of Steam games bought dirt-cheap on sales which I'm never going to get round to playing.

I don't use Steam, but it's entirely because I know I will do the exact same thing, and it's easier to just not ever set up an account than it is to resist the temptation through any other means (since it is impossible to visit gaming websites and forums, and not constantly see the latest Steam sales).

 

[DucatiMonster696]

If i buy a MOVIE and take it home it should me MINE. If I rent a movie, that's another matter. But at least I would know I rented and not bought.

God there are some stupid analogies in this thread.

You completely avoided addressing his point. You don't own the movie itself even if you do buy physical copy. All you own is the physical media on which that movie is recorded on along with the license to view that movie which is only provided to you up until you violate copyright laws (i.e. you start making and selling copies of the movie you never really owned) and then your "right to view" that movie is null and void. The same goes for "buying" a movie ticket in which you buy the right to view a movie in a theater but you don't own the theater or movie itself.

 

[Northern Lawn]

I buy most of my ebooks from Baen.com, which charges $6 for new releases and offers bundles on older books. Many authors even have the first book of a series available for free.

That seems like a crap store. I went there and searched for two books, Caliban's War and Wool omnibus. They had neither.

 

[Northern Lawn]

You completely avoided addressing his point. You don't own the movie itself even if you do buy physical copy. All you own is physical media and the right to view that movie is only extended to the consumer up until you violate the copyright laws (i.e. you start making and selling copies of the movie you never really owned) which are designed to protect the movie producers and their works.

Yeah, I realized when I bought all the Star Wars movies I don't actually own Lucas Arts.

Any other insights?


Hey i bought a NY Times Newspaper... I must own NY Times...

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Yeah, I realized when I bought all the Star Wars movies I don't actually own Lucas Arts.

Any other insights?


Hey i bought a NY Times Newspaper... I must own NY Times...YOUR'E point is fricken retarded.

So why can you not understand that the nature of digital media makes this point more evident and clear than purchasing a physical copy?

P.S. A point being "obvious" still makes it very relevant to the conversation and still must be addressed by those claiming otherwise.

 

[lxskllr]

That seems like a crap store. I went there and searched for two books, Caliban's War and Wool omnibus. They had neither.

Instead of looking for a specific book, checkout what they have. You can find a lot of good stuff by going in without preconceived notions, or plans. I don't know anything about this book store, but I got hipped to a lot of good music through Emusic. When I joined, they didn't have any major labels, but I got stuff that was better than iTunes, for a cheaper price, and no DRM.

 

[Northern Lawn]

So why can you not understand that the nature of digital media makes this point more evident and clear than purchasing a physical copy?

P.S. A point being "obvious" still makes it very relevant to the conversation and still must be addressed by those claiming otherwise.

Digital media is going to be movies, music, books, games, text books, probably art and what else?

You want them to make the rules of who owns what? and what we can do with it? They are always redrawing the line in the sand and it's never to the consumers benefit.

What is their next step? I'm thinking they put time limits... You buy all led zeppelin music, 5 years later or 20 listens later, you don't own it anymore.

Or perhaps they can try what Micro Soft tried with banking (I think it was), they could monitor every single usage and charge you accordingly. Say 5 cents a play on a song or a 2 dollars every time you watch yours.. I mean their movie. How about this, you can't play your music unless you are online, you can't read your book unless you are online. Then someone like you will come along and say, "If you don't like it, you don't have to read" etc.

I want to own what I bought within limits of course, if I'm not plagiarizer or selling boot leg copies or whatever, its mine and they should keep their nose out of my business.

 

[DaveSimmons]

> I buy most of my ebooks from Baen.com, which charges $6 for new releases and offers bundles on older books. Many authors even have the first book of a series available for free.

That seems like a crap store. I went there and searched for two books, Caliban's War and Wool omnibus. They had neither.

Baen is a publishing house for fantasy and SF. They have their own books and are partnered with a few others, but they aren't a general book store.

Wiki: "Baen Books is an American publishing company established in 1983 by science fiction publisher and editor Jim Baen. It is a science fiction and fantasy publishing house that emphasizes space opera, hard science fiction, military science fiction, and fantasy. "

Their ebooks are cheap, DRM-free and available in several formats.

 

[Northern Lawn]

Instead of looking for a specific book, checkout what they have. You can find a lot of good stuff by going in without preconceived notions, or plans. I don't know anything about this book store, but I got hipped to a lot of good music through Emusic. When I joined, they didn't have any major labels, but I got stuff that was better than iTunes, for a cheaper price, and no DRM.

I get turned onto through forums or podcasts.

For instance in this very forum I heard of the book Leviathans Wake, so I went to Amazon and read the reviews. Bought it, loved it and just as a coincidence the follow up book to the series, Caliban's War was just released. I went and bought that one too in trade paper back.

Same thing with Wool omnibus. Turns out it's one of the best sci fi books ever.

Also, someone posted a video of a group called Die Antwoord. Never head of them, Now I'm just a huge fan boy. For the last 3 weeks I listened to them more then anyone.

I guess one of the reasons I posted this thread was I absolutely love Amazon.com. I've bought lots of books from them, never an Ebook though. Since I live in Canada I usually wait till i want 5-10 books for the specials on shipping or whatever.

But now I have a kindle and this whole "Renting" books thing is the first thing negative I ever head of related to Amazon. I'm a little disappointed in them, they even used to help Jullian ASsange with servers etc till threatened by homeland security.

 

[Northern Lawn]

Baen is a publishing house for fantasy and SF. They have their own books and are partnered with a few others, but they aren't a general book store.

Wiki: "Baen Books is an American publishing company established in 1983 by science fiction publisher and editor Jim Baen. It is a science fiction and fantasy publishing house that emphasizes space opera, hard science fiction, military science fiction, and fantasy. "

Their ebooks are cheap, DRM-free and available in several formats.

The two books I searched for are both science fiction and newer releases.

They don't seem to charge tax either, I read that Amazon charges everyone tax now (that was in another thread here I think).

I would defiantly go for the cheaper option, non DRM is a bonus. I think I'll keep this site bookmarked.

 

[Red Squirrel]

That's because mainstream news fails in it's task to educate the population. They're more concerned with some stupid Hollywood bitch's tits, than anything that actually affects people, and the important decisions people need to make.

Yeah what's up with that, at work we have a TV and we always leave it on the news as if something catastrophic was to happen which could affect us we might hear about it on the news first. Ex: huge storm taking out phone poles and causing other damage.

But all they ever talk about all day is celebrity bullshit or other crap that makes us go "who cares?". Who freaking cares if some person I never heard of had an affair with some other person I never heard of, and even if I did hear of them, who cares anyway, I don't know them and probably never will. Next, sports. Hockey is still out, next, weather, it's nice out, ok now back to this same old story about some celebrity scandal. There's also a huge hurricane, we'll cover that later. Tune in at 6:00.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Digital media is going to be movies, music, books, games, text books, probably art and what else?

You want them to make the rules of who owns what? and what we can do with it? They are always redrawing the line in the sand and it's never to the consumers benefit.

What is their next step? I'm thinking they put time limits... You buy all led zeppelin music, 5 years later or 20 listens later, you don't own it anymore.

Or perhaps they can try what Micro Soft tried with banking (I think it was), they could monitor every single usage and charge you accordingly. Say 5 cents a play on a song or a 2 dollars every time you watch yours.. I mean their movie. How about this, you can't play your music unless you are online, you can't read your book unless you are online. Then someone like you will come along and say, "If you don't like it, you don't have to read" etc.

I want to own what I bought within limits of course, if I'm not plagiarizer or selling boot leg copies or whatever, its mine and they should keep their nose out of my business.

You need to reconcile the fact that all you own is a container (be it a physical or digital) and not the material recorded on that container which has a user licensed attach to it that the owner of the ip can revoke. The container is yours the content rights and license privileges are still held by the publisher, artists, etc. All physical media does is make it harder for publishers, recording companies, etc to enforce those rights where digital media allows them more leverage to actually enforce their rights at the benefit of providing a highly mobile digital media content that consumers see as being worth the trade off in many cases.

Edit: As for the case brought up by the originally linked blog account in the OP well I can see why Amazon may have acted to protect itself and publishers who have allowed their material to be sold in the UK but not Norway. They acted to ensure that they do not get sued by companies or governments operating in Norway and to prevent publishers outside of Norway from also having their rights violated and thus possibly pulling their wares off their site if they don't act to protect the material being accessed from a account in violation with their TOS in UK belonging to some chick in Norway where they do not operate.

 

[Northern Lawn]

Yeah what's up with that, at work we have a TV and we always leave it on the news as if something catastrophic was to happen which could affect us we might hear about it on the news first. Ex: huge storm taking out phone poles and causing other damage.

But all they ever talk about all day is celebrity bullshit or other crap that makes us go "who cares?". Who freaking cares if some person I never heard of had an affair with some other person I never heard of, and even if I did hear of them, who cares anyway, I don't know them and probably never will. Next, sports. Hockey is still out, next, weather, it's nice out, ok now back to this same old story about some celebrity scandal. There's also a huge hurricane, we'll cover that later. Tune in at 6:00.

Honestly, I'd rather hear celebrity gossip than conspiracy theories. On this other forum (a business forum) there is a guy that listens to Alex Jones. He's trying to say that this FrankinStorm is being caused by something called HAARP in Alaska. It's a government conspiracy.

I told him that our Prime Minister Stephan HARPer destroyed HAARP this mourning using a Canadian Earthquake and Tsunami Maker Machine. We destroyed HAARP and just missed Hawaii with an Tidal wave. I told him Harper did that because he thought the Americans were mocking his name. LOL.

I think I freaked him out.

 

[lxskllr]

Honestly, I'd rather hear celebrity gossip than conspiracy theories. On this other forum (a business forum) there is a guy that listens to Alex Jones. He's trying to say that this FrankinStorm is being caused by something called HAARP in Alaska. It's a government conspiracy.

There's a lot of news out there that isn't conspiracy related, but you'll never hear it on national news. If you do hear it, it's a brief mention, with government approved spin so you hardly hear it go by. You can get a lot of news online, but there needs to be something for Kansas Katie so she can know what's going on too.

 

[Northern Lawn]

There's a lot of news out there that isn't conspiracy related, but you'll never hear it on national news. If you do hear it, it's a brief mention, with government approved spin so you hardly hear it go by. You can get a lot of news online, but there needs to be something for Kansas Katie so she can know what's going on too.

I had that RT channel for a while (I think it stood for Russian Television) they had quite a different take of todays headlines, LOL, but it seems they had about the same amount of integrity as FOX. I got rid of that channel.

During the Arab spring in Egypt, on CNN... when that woman reporter was raped...Cooper Anderson on air in an interview with her a few days after she was rape, LIVE ON AIR, she said she was raped by the pro democracy protesters in that square. That they ripped her cloths off and was raped by hundreds of people with their hands, they kept passing her around until the Army (the bad guys) saved her.

I was shocked by this, this is the real muslim people. Then it was never mentioned again and she was not on air again for months.. recovering apparently.

I remember thinking this was such a blatant attempt to make these protesters look like the good guys that they could ignore such a crime that was committed by hundreds of them not just a "few bad apples".

Then a year later when that Ambassador was killed, I never heard that he was actually raped himself while still alive by these freedom fighters till I read it here on this forum. I didn't believe it at first and had to google it. Muslims are literally disgusting.

I haven't watched CNN in a year, Fox is joke, I generally rely on huffington post (not a great site either imo) and The Young Turks (you tubers).