I did my homework for a build! PLEASE GRADE ME!

[cuthulas]

Hi guys,

I did this once four years ago and the feedback I received from this forum and several others was priceless. So priceless that the two rigs I built still hold their own and have had almost no problems at all. But the time has come for me to bite the bullet and build another rig.

I spent the past week combing through forums and have come up with a basic build. I am trying to stay around the $2500 mark and currently I am coming in closer to $3000. I would like to take the price down a bit if possible to do so without sacrificing performance. My guess is changing the Ram, the HD's, the soundcard, and the CPU are the easiest and most obvious choices, but what do you think? Heck, even if you know places to get deals on any of these ... most of the prices listed are newegg.com ... links are even included for convenience. Thanks for the help guys.

Case - Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $154.99 I don't want a full tower. Just won't fit where I want it and this one seemed well received.

PS - PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad $199.99 Not much to say here other than I want enough power for an additional video card later so here we go.

OS - Microsoft Windows XP Professional with SP2B 1 Pack - OEM $129.99 AVOIDING Vista for the time being.

Sound Card - Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail $182.99
Quite a bit of heartburn about this one ... I don't want crappy sound and I want the ability to have a 7.1 system in the future. Besides the control panel on this one is cool. Alternatives?

HSF - ZALMAN 9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler $59.99 Been happy with Zalman in the past. Both PC's I have now use their HSF. Seemed like a good fan for air OC'ing. I would LOVE to watercool, but I want to do that after I get a system up and running on air. I've never done WC'ing before and am anxious about doing it right off the build. I have no idea what pump/rad/tubes/fluid/blocks to get and it seems to get pricey. I chickened out!

Case Fans - Yate Loon 120mm Case Fan - DS12L - 12 $3.00 each I plan on replacing the fans in the P182 with these for a quieter rig without paying a ton on fans.

Fan Controller - Zalman MFC2 Multi Fan and Temperature Monitor and Control Drive Bay Device $54.99 I love the look of this controller ... even though I will have to wait for it to come into stock again. Anyone recommend a similarly sweet fan control panel. I have Zalman MFC on my two PC's and I love to be able to turn things up and down depending on what my needs are.

OS/Game Hard Drives - WD Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA 150 HD - OEM $199.99 HELP NEEDED ... I want fast load times. But would it be better to find a mobo that permits Intel Matrix Raid and get some simpler drives? Numbers I saw on those looked impressive; especially considering price/performance ratio. 200 dollars for a raptor really gives me heartburn as well.

Storage Hard Drives - Seagate Barracude 7200.10 ST33220620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0GB/S Hard Drive - OEM $79.99 Gonna run two of these in Raid1 for safety sake.

DVD Burner - Sony NEC Optiarc Black AD-7170S-0B 18X SATA $33.99 Open to better ideas ...

Motherboard - EVGA 122-CK-NF68-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $249.99 $250.00 board ... but good OC'ing and all the bells and whistles. But no Intel chipset so no Intel Matrix Raid ... and not sure what I really need here. I could save $100 if I went with a different board but I'm scared of hosing myself in such a way that I can't RAID/SLI/OC, etc.

CPU - Intel Core 2 Extreme Processor X6800 BX80557X6800 $495.00 No link here but I can get an Intel processor for about half retail. So why NOT go with the best out there ... other than it would save me an additional $250-$300 dollars. I just can't decide. Also ... wondering if I should grab the similarly priced quad core instead and just take the performance hit for the sake of future proofing as more software is tweaked to use multiple procs.

RAM - Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 PC2-8500 Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AL1065 - Retail $224.99 I was planning on getting 4gb total. I know xp only sees 3, but 4 seems good if I move to Vista by the end of the year. However, I want them to be good for OC'ing ... but I imagine I could save a lot in this area. Recommendations?

Floppy Drive - MITSUMI Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal USB 2.0 digital card reader with Floppy Drive Model FA404M BLK - OEM $18.99 Thought if I'm getting a 3.5 why not get one that can read other things.

Video Card - EVGA 769-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail $559.99 I didn't want to skimp much here. I decided against SLI on two GTS's as it seems the GTX just rocks their number by itself. I intend to SLI another in the future if any future games give my PC the hiccups. I decided against SLI for now since I am going to be running at 1600x1200 resolution and this should more than suffice.

Speakers - Logitech THX Z-5300e 280 Watts RMS 5.1 Speaker - Retail $134.99 I want GOOD surround sound. I couldn't bring myself to dumping another $150 for the top of the line Logitech, but these seem great.

Other thoughts ... I want a good microphone. I'm using a mic that came with a 90Mghz Gateway I got in the 1990's!!! It sucks. Help me out here. Also looking for a good set of headphone/mic combo. I got my tool kit, my arctic silver 5, and I'm ready to order ... but I want to knock the price on my build down another $500 dollars or so if possible without really sacrificing performance. And I sure hope I didn't forget anything. Thanks again and thanks in advance for your expertise!

 

[Ichigo]

1. You are spending more on your sound card than your speakers, which is usually a bad idea. Even if you don't get a sound card, $300 speakers would sound better than the setup you have right now.
2. RAID1 is not useful for the average consumer. 320GB is going to run out really quickly.
3. You will likely (as others do) decided in the end not to go with SLI, as if you don't do it in the beginning, its value diminishes as an upgrade option. Most people opt to buy an 8800 series card instead of going SLI with the 7900 series, for example. Either go SLI now or don't. A GTX will likely be fine for you.
4. If you're not going SLI, there's no point to a 680i, $250 motherboard. Get a P35. Maybe the Gigabyte one that supports DDR2 and DDR3. It's more future-proof, if anything.
5. Get a quad-core. Why spend $500 otherwise? You won't notice the slight performance decrease now (less so if you overclock), but you likely will notice its usefulness in the future.
6. +$200 for only 2GB of RAM? You can probably do better, though I can't think of anything off the top of my head.
7. Again, get better speakers. Either Logitech Z-5500's or maybe the Klipsch series(even better). Of course, with your money, you could go with an HT setup... (cue Yoyo)
8. Where's the monitor? A kitty will die if you buy all that to play on a monitor that's not 24" or the NEC 20.1". I've always held the firm belief that there is far more value in spending more on the components that actually interact with you (speakers, monitors, etc.). Additionally, they depreciate at a far slower rate than internal components.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

yeah, i don't know if you wanna spend that much on your sound card.

 

[elevator]

That particular sony drive has trouble writing DVD's playable on DVD players from what I have heard

 

[MrDudeMan]

Ichigo, how can you say something like that? (number 2) that is the most subjective thing ever. i have 2 raptor74s in RAID0 and ive used probably 40GB, leaving 90+ GB empty. how on earth do you know what he will or wont do with 320GB?

you can do way better on ram. you could get some decent OCing ram for <$130. corsair/crucial comes to mind.

the mobo is a waste IMO. if you want to future proof, get the GA-P35C-DS3R. it supports DDR2 and DDR3, 65nm and 45nm CPUs, and has raid since you seem to want it. it doesnt have SLI, though, but imo that is still pointless. 550W would power this system; 700W is way overkill. corsair PSUs are great as well as PCP&C. huge PSUs are marketing hype - you will definitely not run out of power even with a quad core, 8800ultra, and tons of hard drives on 550W.

you must be an intel employee, because that is the exact same price i get it for if i were you, id get the $28 celeron and use that until the price drops next month. build the whole rig and just wait for july 23rd. it would save you a lot of money and it really wouldnt be that much time, plus you would get to build now.

 

[cuthulas]

Thanks for the feedback. I really respect your opinions and want to hear more. I'm going to reply in the order Ichigo listed the items.

1. Hmm ... perhaps I should cut down to a simple 7.1 soundcard ... i.e. Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail I'm just dreading buying it and regretting not having gone with the Fatal1ty version with the panel (it just looks sooo cool). Also ... I would like to eventually move to a 7.1 setup, but any of you have link on how people setup THAT many speakers. I'm struggling now with where I am gonna put the 5.1 rear speakers much less the 7.1 speakers all around. Would love to see some pictures on how that has been done CLEANLY.

2. Hmm ... possibly just Raid0 the 320's instead of just go for a Terabyte of storage. Not bringing the price down, but would be nice. Just thought of Raid1 so I don't lose data ... unless you have a better means of backing up data.

3. Hmm ... linked to below...

4. Interesting thoughts on 3 and 4. I'm not convinced I won't SLI with another GTX in a year or so ... but that chance certainly hangs over my head as technology continually changes, etc. Hmm ... what a dilema ... cause my adopting a P35 totally hinges on that. Why aren't there any P35 SLI boards? Didn't find any on my cursory glance at newegg.

5. Good idea ... I think I'm gonna go quad-core with a minor performance hit now for the sake of futureproofing.

6. I just went with the Crucial Ballistix series cause it was recommended elsewhere. I want to OC a bit so any RAM out there that will give me quick timings is good. But I will end up spending 450 on 4gb of ram at the price I got listed. Ugh ... probably a big money saver here.

7. Better speakers once I get a better location for my desk I think. I feel like I practically have to build a room to house my speakers and PC. Ideas on how to do this well? And WHAT is an HT setup that you referred to?

8. OK ... I hope no kittens die because of this. I "think" I have a pretty good monitor. It's a few years old, but I got a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070sb. It's probably comparable (I hope) to the NEC you listed. I've thought about buying a 24" Dell LCD ... but my screen will run 1600x1200 spectacularly so not sure ... you're the expert.

Hmm ... so still not sure where I can save money on any of this. Price has only gone up instead of down! hehe. More feedback please!

 

[MrDudeMan]

get this

and wait a few weeks to save $200+ dollars. i normally would say screw it but thats a lot of money to waste.

 

[cuthulas]

MrDudeMan! You outted me! Heh ...

So yeah ... in terms of Raid1 ... I might just stick with that ... my wife would kill me if her stuff was lost. Unless there is a more effective way to backup data. Should I go with RAID 0 on two 320's for OS and games or just stick with a raptor?

RAM ... any specific recommendations (i.e. newegg links) ... I want to make sure they OC easily, but don't want to waste $ for nothing.

OK ... gonna go check on cheaper PSU's by PCP&C.

MrDudeMan, great idea on the cheap celeron. I can actually get a Presler 3.73/1066 Extreme Edition Dual Core (965) as a loaner chip and use that in the meantime. Then I will hit up the chips again when prices change ... that way I don't have to wait.

 

[eggrolls]

You can get this RAM instead:

http://www.buy.com/prod/crucia...loc/101/202541818.html

800mhz instead of 1066mhz ones you listed, but far cheaper. Maybe Crucial will offer another rebate soon

 

[Ichigo]

I just think you should choose your speakers first, then decide what soundcard to get, if you get one at all.

What does your wife do? Depending on how much space she needs, you can get a cheap external drive and backup to that once in a while. I feel that with your budget, a Raptor and a 500GB drive would be fine. You'll get great speeds with the former (not that the latter is shabby at all) and the latter will last you for a while. Hard drives don't have a very high failure rate at all, but I guess you could go RAID1 if you're very, very concerned.

I haven't yet heard of a person happy with their deision to upgrade to SLI months after their initial purchase as an option against buying a newer, better card. Your mileage may vary. It's jsut the general consensus around here.

I see your Mitsubishi is a CRT, which I guess should be fine. Not that I have any experience with that monitor specifically, but as long as you're happy with its image quality, all is fine.

 

[notanotheracct]

it really is worth your while to buy cheaper crucial ballistix since they pretty much all OC the same. 667 and 800Mhz RAM should get just as high, and i mean this specifically for crucial ballistix, no idea if this applies to any other memory makers. i bought these for cheap with rebate and got an OC of 1117 with no voltage increase (2.2 default). note though, these don't have such great timings but they don't seem to matter very much with ddr2 compared to ddr1, and also i've heard rumors about RAM with LEDs not OCing as great as those without but it could well be just that, rumor.

i'll echo further that SLI is a waste unless you use it from the start, prices only keep dropping and by the time you get around to finally SLI'ing, you'd probably get much better performance from just selling your old card and buying a newer single card, and if you don't SLI no need to waste all that cash on that mobo.


but really, it looks like you want a bit of flash to your build and you're always gonna have to pay for that

 

[gus6464]

Diamond Pros are awesome CRTs. They are up there with the Sony F500 CRTs. My F500 died a couple of weeks ago but it lasted 10 years so I got my money's worth for it.

 

[fishmonger12]

If you're using xp, get 2 gigs of ram instead of 4. You'll save a bucketload on that alone, and you won't ever need the extra 2 gigs for your uses.

And listen to notanotheracct.

Also, in my experience, the raptors aren't really worth the price. A couple seconds load time difference from a large 16 MB cache NCQ seagate, with a lot less storage space.

For the price of that zalman I would get a tuniq tower or something similiar. It will perform much better for the same price.

Your psu is overkill. SLI is a waste of money when it comes to an upgrade path. By the time you will need that extra juice an 8800gtx wont be worth buying. Buy a (one) 8800 gtx now, play with it, and when you become dissatisfied with it (4 years later, like your last build) buy a better video card. Invest the 500$ you saved.

Save money on your board by not getting an sli one. 120-140$ should be enough for a good, solid overclocking board.

Get a different sound card as suggested.

These are all suggestions for lowering cost, without losing much performance.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

you might wanna look at a sound card that has hardware dolby encoding ability.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: cuthulas
MrDudeMan! You outted me! Heh ...

So yeah ... in terms of Raid1 ... I might just stick with that ... my wife would kill me if her stuff was lost. Unless there is a more effective way to backup data. Should I go with RAID 0 on two 320's for OS and games or just stick with a raptor?

RAM ... any specific recommendations (i.e. newegg links) ... I want to make sure they OC easily, but don't want to waste $ for nothing.

OK ... gonna go check on cheaper PSU's by PCP&C.

MrDudeMan, great idea on the cheap celeron. I can actually get a Presler 3.73/1066 Extreme Edition Dual Core (965) as a loaner chip and use that in the meantime. Then I will hit up the chips again when prices change ... that way I don't have to wait.

i would just stick with a single raptor150. they are screaming fast and its a lot less of a hassle to just have a single drive for the OS. i have raid right now and i would give anything to trade my 2 raptor74s for a single raptor150. they are fast, but its just a hassle. plus you have 2x the chance of your OS drive crapping out, which is again a hassle.

RAID1 for data drives isnt a bad idea, though. personally i dont have anything that important, but if you do then go for it.

btw, a presler 3.73 is actually decently fast, but man you will be screaming when you get your new CPU. not only will you appreciate having more money, but you will really appreciate the speed of your new CPU after using the presler for a while.

i said it earlier and ill say it one more time for some extra emphasis, get a single, faster video card instead of 2 slower ones. SLI was around 10 years ago and the market strayed from it, but now its back for whatever reason. you could use the money you saved on your CPU by waiting and get an 8800ultra. now that would be better use of that $

 

[zagood]

Buy an X-fi Xtreme Music, best price/performance...and if you really want the I/O panel down the road, buy it seperately...

http://www.google.com/products...Search&hl=en&scoring=p

Too many good comments on the other hardware, nothing else to add.

-z

 

[Roguestar]

Don't RAID-0. Just don't.

And the Gigabyte DS3R doesn't support both DDR2 and DDR3 at the same time, you have to choose which flavour you want.

 

[Roguestar]

Arg. "major packet loss issues" on work connection to internet = double post.

 

[Gootch]

First, you can't really future proof nowadays with the leaps and bounds in technology. If you are in o/c ing, 680i is a good choice, if not it's waisted money. The X6800 is waisted money, since an X6600 will o/c to the same speed. besides, if you haven't already bought, I suggest you go quad now for the same cash.

Fans are fans unless you o/c. The cpu cooller is fine for stock stuff, but again, you don't specify what you want to do with it, so who knows. I prefer the Tuniq 120 ( for o/c ing)

As for the MoBo, I went with the P5N32-E SLI, a short version of the Striker Extreme. Check it out.

Crusial or Corsair, stocks speeds, samo samo. Both are good solid rams with reasonable o/c capabilities. Your drive choices are fine. The raptor is the fastest drive out there for running your OS and the rest depends on how much storage you need. Seagate is a good brand, but check the bang for your buck. Big drives are now cheap, so buy as big as you can afford. Forget RAID, the price you pay for the set-up is not worth the performance increase, unless you want the best of the best and looking at the rest of your system, you won't be able to afford that. Stick with the Raptor and one other big drive.

I don't buy sound cards, I buy mobo's with intergrated sound. Unless you are capable of hearing the difference ( which most folks are not, either due to the speakers or the hearing devices on both sides of their head) it's a waste of money to buy an add-on. JMHO.

Overall, I give you a 7 out of 10. Some waisted cash, no monitor to evaluate. Oh and the mic, I suggest to save some money on some of your other components and buy this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...n=172282&s=electronics

Here's my set-up


Asus P5N32-E SLI
700 W Game Extreme
1 Raptor/ 1 SE16 500 Gb Sata2
Tuniq 120/ E6600
XP Pro
2 G Dominator PC-8500
1 8800 GTS OC
2 Samsung SyncMasters 225BW
Altec Speakers/ PC150 Headset/mic
Dragon case/5 fans

Yep I waisted some cash too. Good luck on yours.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Gootch
First, you can't really future proof nowadays with the leaps and bounds in technology. If you are in o/c ing, 680i is a good choice, if not it's waisted money. The X6800 is waisted money, since an X6600 will o/c to the same speed. besides, if you haven't already bought, I suggest you go quad now for the same cash.

Fans are fans unless you o/c. The cpu cooller is fine for stock stuff, but again, you don't specify what you want to do with it, so who knows. I prefer the Tuniq 120 ( for o/c ing)

As for the MoBo, I went with the P5N32-E SLI, a short version of the Striker Extreme. Check it out.

Crusial or Corsair, stocks speeds, samo samo. Both are good solid rams with reasonable o/c capabilities. Your drive choices are fine. The raptor is the fastest drive out there for running your OS and the rest depends on how much storage you need. Seagate is a good brand, but check the bang for your buck. Big drives are now cheap, so buy as big as you can afford. Forget RAID, the price you pay for the set-up is not worth the performance increase, unless you want the best of the best and looking at the rest of your system, you won't be able to afford that. Stick with the Raptor and one other big drive.

I don't buy sound cards, I buy mobo's with intergrated sound. Unless you are capable of hearing the difference ( which most folks are not, either due to the speakers or the hearing devices on both sides of their head) it's a waste of money to buy an add-on. JMHO.

Overall, I give you a 7 out of 10. Some waisted cash, no monitor to evaluate. Oh and the mic, I suggest to save some money on some of your other components and buy this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...n=172282&s=electronics

Here's my set-up


Asus P5N32-E SLI
700 W Game Extreme
1 Raptor/ 1 SE16 500 Gb Sata2
Tuniq 120/ E6600
XP Pro
2 G Dominator PC-8500
1 8800 GTS OC
2 Samsung SyncMasters 225BW
Altec Speakers/ PC150 Headset/mic
Dragon case/5 fans

Yep I waisted some cash too. Good luck on yours.

i agree with everything you said except for that. why would he buy the CPU now when there will be a 50% price drop in 1 month and he has a loaner CPU i the meantime? that is just wasted money.

edit: nevermind. i see what you are saying. yeah i definitely agree with you. he should go quad for sure.

 

[Gootch]

Glad you agree Mr Dudeman. You seem to have your head screwed on straight so I appreciate your comments. Just trying to help. I am suprised nobody picked up on my spelling errors though. Maybe I was the one waisted. LOL

 

[jpeyton]

Case - Looks good. Shop around to get a better deal (I paid $80 for mine).
PSU - Get a Corsair 620HX instead; a better PSU for less money.
OS - Looks good.
Sound Card - Waste of money; a basic X-Fi sounds exactly the same for half the price.
HSF - Good cooler; a bit expensive for what you get. A Scythe Ninja can be had for half the price and give you the same performance.
Case Fans - Looks good.
Fan Controller - These things are usually a waste of money. Just buy a Zalman Fan Mate for each fan ($4/each) and set each fan on low permanently. If your setting up your components correctly, you shouldn't need to ever raise your fan speed below the lowest setting.
OS/Game Hard Drives - Raptors are loud, offer a paltry performance increase over newer 7200RPM drives, and are a bad value in general. Axe this.
Storage Hard Drives - Looks good; shop around for a better deal.
DVD Burner - Looks good.
Motherboard - Get a cheaper P35 based motherboard.
CPU - If you're overclocking, there is no reason to get the highest end CPU. Buy a E6320/6420 instead.
RAM - Another complete waste of money. Just get quality DDR2 800 for $40-$50/GB instead.
Floppy Drive - Looks good.
Video Card - Looks good.
Speakers - Looks good.

 

[MrDudeMan]

jpeyton, raptors do not offer paltry performance over 7200rpm drives. have you ever used one? you can read reviews and specs all day, but you can feel the difference when you sit down and use it. btw, raptors are not loud. you are stuck on the 36gb drives apparently.

cuthulas, if it means anything to you, my boss did some testing on his computer with some pretty sophisticated equipment to measure actual power usage of his computer, and it doesnt use anywhere CLOSE to the wattage you might think it does. in windows with a c2d, 2 hard drives, 3 fans, 1 cd-rom, 2gb of ram, and a sound card, his computer was using 95W at idle and 125W under load. this was without a video card, so add 125-200W for a video card, but even when the video cards say 350W, they definitely do not hit that. the point is, people with power supplies over 500W are wasting a lot of power unless they actually have like 5 hard drives, SLI with 8800ultras, quad core, 8gb of ram, 5 fans, etc.

the big power supplies are turning into marketing hype, and while they will obviously work and do the job well, they are extreme overkill. you could run this system off of 450W easily, so 520W would be safe. lastly, the PSU cant deliver nearly the wattage it says it can and none of the rails can deliver their max current if any of the others are in use. i.e., if the 12V rail says it can deliver 50A, it can only do that if the 5V and 3.3V are not in use, which is never the case. based on this, i would go with something a little cheaper like the Corsair CMPSU-520HX for 85 dollars AR from newegg, but you cant go wrong with something bigger.

 

[Roguestar]

Often the PSUs can actually deliver more than their rated wattage. What you said about amps is largely true but on, for example, a 520W power supply you can expect to get 520, 530, 540 watts but at a reduced efficiency.

 

[Cogman]

Second the motion to go with a corsair PSU, Ranked number one almost everywhere and for less then you are paying. don't go with zalman, Thermalright, Tuniq and Sythe with preform better at lower noise levels, all you have to do is select the right fan.

Thats my input.