I did it! I changed my tires myself!

[Titan]

I don't drive a lot so have had the snow tires on the Jeep for a bit. I have a big trip coming up and have to swap the all seasons on, all mounted up and ready to go.

Last winter, I had the local tire shop put my winters on.

So I go to change the tires, and I get a good size 4-way i got from a yard sale for a dollar, and go to the right-rear wheel. The first nut won't budge, or the second. My nuts have capped ends so rust doesn't get in there. I go get my big pigskin gloves for some padding and I start bending the 4-way. I go to the garage and get the black 4-way I got from wal-mart last year for changing breaks.

I get down in a low stance. I am 6'4, 360 pounds, and heaving on the wheel. I go put the e-break on in addition to it being in gear to stop the Jeep from rolling as I tug. Using both arms on the 4-way and using my whole body, back and legs, with all my might, I barely manage to crack one nut. It cracks with a loud metal-grinding sound.

They are all like this.

Some of them I fail because I can't work as hard, and have to take a breather until after the 5th try I get it going. I wd-40 the studs when I put the new tires on to avoid rusting in the future. then I realize this isn't rust, this was over-tightening by an air gun. I have broken 4-ways before because of rusted nuts (two in 1 week!), and have more strength than the tool. This is ridiculous.

I felt like going down to the tire shop and demanding them changing them for free since they over-tightened in the first place.

On the third wheel, one of them is really bad and I finally crack the nut. Smoke. SMOKE comes wisping off the nut and stud for 10 seconds like a cigarette.

Then getting the wheels off required some serious kicking after the nuts were off. I kicked the shit out of wheel three and nothing. I had to break out the tae kwon do and after a few failed short kicks, did a 60% of my power stepping side kick (the kind you kick metals doors down with) and the wheel came off.

20 nuts, 4 wheels, I have completed the trial of hercules. I am changing my own tires from now on.

Aren't tire places supposed to put wheels on at a correct torque?

/rant

 

[JulesMaximus]

Dude, use a breaker bar. Leverage is your friend, the longer the bar, the less effort it will take you to loosen the nut.

You really should get a torque wrench and torque them to the correct spec per your owner's manual. They may have been on at the correct spec.

 

[radioouman]

Using WD40 to put the lug nuts back on will cause this problem again in the future. By spraying them down, you lowered the friction force. Engineers set critical torque specs taking into account the lubricant that is used. Due to the decreased friction, you tightened them too much. This isn't a huge deal, except that WD40 will evaporate very quickly leaving you with dry, overtightened nuts.

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Dude, use a breaker bar. Leverage is your friend, the longer the bar, the less effort it will take you to loosen the nut.

You really should get a torque wrench and torque them to the correct spec per your owner's manual. They may have been on at the correct spec.

I've used breaker bars in the past (used to change a lot of rusty volvo tires with my dad) and the 4-ways are better because I can push and pull at the same time. With the breaker bar I'd find that the socket would stick out too far and sticking a pipe on the end for a cheater bar would cause the socket to fall off, or strip the nut cuz it's a bad angle.

I should get a torque wrench. A good rule of thumb I've heard from mechanics is once you tighten the nuts to where they feel "on" just give a good 1/4 turn tug on the end and you're good. I've found that works for me.

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: radioouman
Using WD40 to put the lug nuts back on will cause this problem again in the future. By spraying them down, you lowered the friction force. Engineers set critical torque specs taking into account the lubricant that is used. Due to the decreased friction, you tightened them too much. This isn't a huge deal, except that WD40 will evaporate very quickly leaving you with dry, overtightened nuts.

ahh, that is good to know. They weren't WD'd by the shop before I took them off. That explains why my friend was recommending a brand-name product for putting on the studs. I should get some and go to each nut, loosen, and re-apply.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Titan

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Dude, use a breaker bar. Leverage is your friend, the longer the bar, the less effort it will take you to loosen the nut.

You really should get a torque wrench and torque them to the correct spec per your owner's manual. They may have been on at the correct spec.

I've used breaker bars in the past (used to change a lot of rusty volvo tires with my dad) and the 4-ways are better because I can push and pull at the same time. With the breaker bar I'd find that the socket would stick out too far and sticking a pipe on the end for a cheater bar would cause the socket to fall off, or strip the nut cuz it's a bad angle.

I should get a torque wrench. A good rule of thumb I've heard from mechanics is once you tighten the nuts to where they feel "on" just give a good 1/4 turn tug on the end and you're good. I've found that works for me.

I have a breaker bar in my tool box that's about 2' long and I've never had to add a pipe to get more leverage. One hand supports the socket and the other provides the force to remove the nut. I've never stripped a nut.

Edit-Most shops use a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts. If your shop isn't doing this find another mechanic because they should be. Overtightened lugs can damage the studs and possibly cause them to fail.

Oh, one more thing. If you do end up buying a torque wrench don't EVER use it to loosen tight fasteners or as a breaker bar. This will screw up the calibration of your torque wrench.

 

[JDub02]

you should have assumed the stance of dominance ... the lug nuts would have loosened themselves in fear.

/atot

with that said, i've run across a few situations like that. it's a PITA. once instance had all 230 lbs of me jumping on a breaker bar before it finally let go .. thinking back on it, i probably should have just grabbed a pipe, but jumping seemed more appropriate given the frustration level at the time.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: radioouman
...leaving you with dry, overtightened nuts.

Nobody wants that. Nobody.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: radioouman
...leaving you with dry, overtightened nuts.

Nobody wants that. Nobody.

:thumbsup::laugh:

 

[IlllI]

wow.. so many uses of the word nuts in this topic

 

[njmodi]

I'm surprised the studs survived such an assault by nuts.

 

[sdifox]

damn, can't use nut jokes since my car uses bolts...

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I get that the toughest part of this job was loosening the lug nuts, but IMO it doesn't make sense to pry the wheels themselves off once you have the nuts free - just loosen the nuts a few turns (do NOT remove them altogether!) and roll the car back and forth a few feet, and the wheels will break free easily.

 

[Vetterin]

Another tip to loosen rusted nuts is to wack them with a hammer before attempting to remove. You can also place a jack under your breaker bar and use the jack to apply pressure on the bar. Just make sure the bar is on the nut real good.

 

[Thump553]

I agree with you Titan. People should have to have a license before being allowed to operate an airgun. I am hardly a strong man, but I bent my 4-way last weekend taking the wheels off a new to me used car.

One trick I used long ago on a stubborn nut was to heat it up with a blow torch.

BTW I think anti-seize compound is a lot better to put on than WD-40 to help prevent the problem in the future.

 

[IlllI]

Originally posted by: Vetterin
Another tip to loosen rusted nuts is to wack them with a hammer before attempting to remove. You can also place a jack under your breaker bar and use the jack to apply pressure on the bar. Just make sure the bar is on the nut real good.

lol that was great

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Thump553

One trick I used long ago on a stubborn nut was to heat it up with a blow torch.

:Q

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Thump553

One trick I used long ago on a stubborn nut was to heat it up with a blow torch.

:Q

Yeah I broke down in the parking lot of a hardware store in the winter up here one time, and stripped a nut. Guy from the store comes out to help, we torch the nut, I think maybe he didn't have a torch, but some kinda leaf burner. Anyways, it gets red hot but we can't get a grip on this badly stripped nut. So we get a one size smaller socket and hammer the thing on there with a mallet, mashing the drive of the socket, which we then have to file out to fit the ratchet in there. Then we get the nut off.

Maybe I just have some kindof tire curse.

 

[AMCRambler]

The hard part isn't getting your nuts off. It's getting the rim loose from the hub. I've had cars where I kicked the crap out of the tire and rim to try and get it loose. They corrode and bond themselves right to the hub and it's like they're welded on. I've found the only cure is an 8 pound sledge hammer and a block of wood against the inside of the rim to bust it loose. I'd have to wail on it, then rotate the wheel, then wail again. That will usually get it.
Worst part is when you've gotten a flat and you can't get the rim off. I'm thinking about putting a sledge hammer and block of wood in my trunk just for that. I had 1 time where I got a flat and couldn't get the rim off. Fortunately there was a Mavis discount tire right across the street. Drove it over there on the flat.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
The hard part isn't getting your nuts off. It's getting the rim loose from the hub. I've had cars where I kicked the crap out of the tire and rim to try and get it loose. They corrode and bond themselves right to the hub and it's like they're welded on. I've found the only cure is an 8 pound sledge hammer and a block of wood against the inside of the rim to bust it loose. I'd have to wail on it, then rotate the wheel, then wail again. That will usually get it.
Worst part is when you've gotten a flat and you can't get the rim off. I'm thinking about putting a sledge hammer and block of wood in my trunk just for that. I had 1 time where I got a flat and couldn't get the rim off. Fortunately there was a Mavis discount tire right across the street. Drove it over there on the flat.

Try just loosening the lug nuts then driving the car back and forth a few feet. This will normally loosen even the most stuck-on wheels, without the risk of damaging your car with an off-target blow from a sledgehammer. The weight of your car far exceeds any force you can reasonably apply by hand.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Titan

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Dude, use a breaker bar. Leverage is your friend, the longer the bar, the less effort it will take you to loosen the nut.

You really should get a torque wrench and torque them to the correct spec per your owner's manual. They may have been on at the correct spec.

I've used breaker bars in the past (used to change a lot of rusty volvo tires with my dad) and the 4-ways are better because I can push and pull at the same time. With the breaker bar I'd find that the socket would stick out too far and sticking a pipe on the end for a cheater bar would cause the socket to fall off, or strip the nut cuz it's a bad angle.

I should get a torque wrench. A good rule of thumb I've heard from mechanics is once you tighten the nuts to where they feel "on" just give a good 1/4 turn tug on the end and you're good. I've found that works for me.

A breaker bar with the proper sized extension and socket should provide TONS more force than a 4 way. Most don't use them right though.

Personally I feel lugs should never be tightened without a torque wrench. If you have rust, I'd just wire brush the studs and pick up some new lugs. Overtightening also fatigues the fasteners so the studs really should be replaced if it's as bad as you say it was.

 

[spidey07]

Just a tip - it's much easier to push it DOWN with your foot then try to lift UP with your arms. Gravity is your friend, not your enemy.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Just a tip - it's much easier to push it DOWN with your foot then try to lift UP with your arms. Gravity is your friend, not your enemy.

yes, especially if your 340lbs. OP could have saved himself a lot of time and effort.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: radioouman
Using WD40 to put the lug nuts back on will cause this problem again in the future. By spraying them down, you lowered the friction force. Engineers set critical torque specs taking into account the lubricant that is used. Due to the decreased friction, you tightened them too much. This isn't a huge deal, except that WD40 will evaporate very quickly leaving you with dry, overtightened nuts.

My owner's manual states boldly(and the Haynes) DO NOT use ANY type of oil, WD40 on lug nuts! doing so might cause the nuts not to torque properly and have them loosen during driving..

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: spidey07
Just a tip - it's much easier to push it DOWN with your foot then try to lift UP with your arms. Gravity is your friend, not your enemy.

yes, especially if your 340lbs. OP could have saved himself a lot of time and effort.

Which is why I use two arms on the 4-way, one pulling up, one pushing down. More shifting my weight forward and down, than anything.

I still maintain from experience that breaker bars will cause stripping, at least on the ratty old volvo lugs I am so familiar with. Just from the handle being at angle outside the wheel-well. The 4-way keeps equal force on both sides, so all the torque is centered in the middle of the nut.