i created the greatest steak marinade ever

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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
49,992
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Dale's + worcestershire sauce is the best. I used it on costo ribeye cap.

https://www.amazon.com/Dales-Steak-Seasoning-16oz-Bottle/dp/B0057P11CE/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1471920951&sr=8-1&keywords=dale's+steak+seasoning

salt and pepper snobs can suck it

If you don't have Dale's available near you, here's the copycat recipe: (it actually mixes pretty well into ground beef for tasty pan-fried burgers!)

http://www.cdkitchen.com/recipes/recs/13/dales-seasoning158330.shtml

It actually includes Worcestershire sauce in the homemade version, so you're basically just amping up that flavor by adding more of it. If you want to get really creative, you can make your own Worcestershire sauce:

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/242401/homemade-worcestershire-sauce/

Lots of crossover in the ingredients if you want to try making a brainhulk-designed custom steak sauce yourself:
  • Water
  • Soy sauce
  • Apple cider vinegar
  • Liquid smoke
  • Ground ginger
  • Salt
  • Sugar
  • Brown sugar
  • Mustard powder
  • Onion powder
  • Garlic powder
  • Black pepper
  • Parika
  • Cinnamon
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,556
30,775
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Steak alone, I usually only add horseradish if anything. For some cuts, I like to make a butter/shallot/cilantro/lime spread.

recently, with the sous vide/smoked brisket that I attempted, I reserved the juice from the sous vide bag, combined in a sauce pan with cider vinegar, crushed red pepper, garlic powder salt and pepper, and a wee bit of grey poupon and reduced. That was glorious. The brisket was perfectly fine without it, but I liked the sauce with potatoes and nearly anything else. But it did help to cut down on the uber smokiness of the brisket.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
49,992
6,300
136
Steak alone, I usually only add horseradish if anything. For some cuts, I like to make a butter/shallot/cilantro/lime spread.

recently, with the sous vide/smoked brisket that I attempted, I reserved the juice from the sous vide bag, combined in a sauce pan with cider vinegar, crushed red pepper, garlic powder salt and pepper, and a wee bit of grey poupon and reduced. That was glorious. The brisket was perfectly fine without it, but I liked the sauce with potatoes and nearly anything else. But it did help to cut down on the uber smokiness of the brisket.

Like Spam, I avoided Grey Poupon for years, mostly because I always thought the commercials were a joke. Didn't try it until a few years ago. Oh man. Why oh why did I wait so long! It was the equivalent to discovering pesto on sandwiches.
 

LevelSea

Senior member
Jan 29, 2013
942
53
91
Like Spam, I avoided Grey Poupon for years, mostly because I always thought the commercials were a joke. Didn't try it until a few years ago. Oh man. Why oh why did I wait so long! It was the equivalent to discovering pesto on sandwiches.
I go through Grey Poupon like crazy. It's pretty good mixed with gochujang as a vinegar base for various meats.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
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Ohman, the steak purists here are sad."Why change the flavor of the meat?" (Proceeds to extoll how they only use salt and pepper, both which heaily change the flavor of the meat".

While I'm not a fan of the sweeter sauces, a nice reduction glaze its quite amazing on a steak and amplifies the flavor like crazy. Sous Vide is amazing for getting a perfect steak with no effort required. None of the pseudo-science with letting the meat come up to room temperature or anecdoctal grill shenanigans.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
49,992
6,300
136
I go through Grey Poupon like crazy. It's pretty good mixed with gochujang as a vinegar base for various meats.

I just barely got into Korean food, so I'll have to try that!

So far tho, not a fan of anything other than beef bulgogli. Have tried both authentic & Americanized restaurants.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,599
126
No, I kept having issues and wild variance in my steak until I learned that it needs to sit and warm up before being grilled. Taking a 38° steak from the fridge and putting it right on the grill is a bad idea.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/06/the-food-lab-7-old-wives-tales-about-cooking-steak.html

The Theory: You want your meat to cook evenly from edge to center. Therefore, the closer it is to its final eating temperature, the more evenly it will cook. Letting it sit on the counter for 20 to 30 minutes will bring the steak up to room temperature—a good 20 to 25°F closer to your final serving temperature. In addition, the warmer meat will brown better because you don't need to waste energy from the pan to take the chill off of its surface.

The Reality: Let's break this down one issue at a time. First, the internal temperature. While it's true that slowly bringing a steak up to its final serving temperature will promote more even cooking, the reality is that letting it rest at room temperature accomplishes almost nothing.

To test this, I pulled a single 15-ounce New York strip steak out of the refrigerator, cut it in half, placed half back in the fridge, and the other half on a ceramic plate on the counter. The steak started at 38°F and the ambient air in my kitchen was at 70°F. I then took temperature readings of its core every ten minutes.

After the first 20 minutes—the time that many chefs and books will recommend you let a steak rest at room temperature—the center of the steak had risen to a whopping 39.8°F. Not even a full two degrees. So I let it go longer. 30 minutes. 50 minutes. 1 hour and 20 minutes. After 1 hour and 50 minutes, the steak was up to 49.6°F in the center. Still colder than the cold water comes out of my tap in the summer, and only about 13% closer to its target temperature of a medium-rare 130°F than the steak in the fridge.

You can increase the rate at which it warms by placing it on a highly conductive metal, like aluminum,* but even so, it'd take you at least an hour or so to get up to room temperature—an hour that would be better spent by, say, actively warming your steak sous-vide style in a beer cooler.

*protip: thaw frozen meat in an aluminum skillet to cut your thaw time in half!

After two hours, I decided I'd reached the limit of what is practical, and had gone far beyond what any book or chef recommends, so I cooked the two steaks side by side. For the sake of this test, I cooked them directly over hot coals until seared, then shifted them over to the cool side to finish.* Not only did they come up to their final temperature at nearly the same time (I was aiming for 130°F), but they also showed the same relative evenness of cooking, and they both seared at the same rate.

*Normally I'd start them on the cool side and finish them on the hot like in this recipe, but that method would have obscured the results of this test.

The cooking rate makes sense—after all, the room temperature-rested steak was barely any warmer on the inside than the fridged-steak, but what about the searing? The outer layer of the rested steak must be warm enough to make a difference, right?

It takes five times more energy to convert a single gram of water into steam than it does to raise the temperature of that water all the way from ice cold to boiling hot.

Here's the issue: Steak can't brown until most of the moisture has evaporated from the layers of meat closest to the surface, and it takes ahell of a lot of energy to evaporate moisture. To put it in perspective. It takes five times more energy to convert a single gram of water into steam than it does to raise the temperature of that water all the way from ice cold to boiling hot. So when searing a steak, the vast majority of energy that goes into it is used to evaporate moisture from its surface layers. Next to that energy requirement, a 20, 30, or even 40 degree difference in the temperature of the surface of the meat is a piddling affair.

The Takeaway: Don't bother letting your steaks rest at room temperature. Rather, dry them very thoroughly on paper towels before searing. Or better yet, salt them and let them rest uncovered on a rack in the fridge for a night or two, so that their surface moisture can evaporate. You'll get much more efficient browning that way.
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Ohman, the steak purists here are sad."Why change the flavor of the meat?" (Proceeds to extoll how they only use salt and pepper, both which heaily change the flavor of the meat".

Actually I think most of the salt/pepper crowd said that using anything else ruins the flavor. Of course anything added will change or enhance the flavor.

I'm no purist though. I have even been known to eat mine with ketchup from time to time.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,556
30,775
146
Like Spam, I avoided Grey Poupon for years, mostly because I always thought the commercials were a joke. Didn't try it until a few years ago. Oh man. Why oh why did I wait so long! It was the equivalent to discovering pesto on sandwiches.

Dijon mustard is great for mixing into all sorts of sauces. I guess GP is just easier to find everywhere. I bought the large-sized 2 pack (I think 32 oz each?) at Costco a few months ago for $7 and that pretty much sits in the fridge as something I take out when I want to make some sort of sauce: "Well, I'll add some dijon, I guess, because it already has most of what I want when making any sauce."


Plebs: Dijon is not to be confused with Yellow mustard. Yellow mustard has its uses, but it is not a versatile tool that you really ever want to mix into a sauce.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,556
30,775
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That's fine, you can take his word and his single test under one set of possible conditions as the holy gospel of steak. I will continue to experiment for myself and do what makes a better steak for me.

sounds like you are unfamiliar with Kenji. He doesn't do "one single test" ever. He goes over these little experiments multiple times over various variables every time he publishes a method.

Not to say you shouldn't do what you prefer, but his guides are probably better than any comparable guides out there right now. The goal for his methods is the ability to reproduce them simply, and he always seems to nail it
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,599
126
//edit

ah fuck it, let the man cook his steak however he wants.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,724
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sounds like you are unfamiliar with Kenji. He doesn't do "one single test" ever. He goes over these little experiments multiple times over various variables every time he publishes a method.

Not to say you shouldn't do what you prefer, but his guides are probably better than any comparable guides out there right now. The goal for his methods is the ability to reproduce them simply, and he always seems to nail it

I don't see a single shred of evidence he has more data that the single test he describes in the article.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,724
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//edit

ah fuck it, let the man cook his steak however he wants.

I don't really see a debunking of the practice in the amazingribs article, more like a debunking that it only takes an hour to bring a whole roast or shoulder up to room temperature.

That, and a warning about the dangers of letting raw meat sit at room temperature, which everyone should take into account.

Edit: And neither of these articles make any comment whatsoever on the end result of the taste and texture of the steak.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,599
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I don't really see a debunking of the practice in the amazingribs article, more like a debunking that it only takes an hour to bring a whole roast or shoulder up to room temperature.

That, and a warning about the dangers of letting raw meat sit at room temperature, which everyone should take into account.

Why don't we flip the script then and try to provide the facts/data that leaving your steak out for an hour will bring it to room temperature.


or we can just agree to disagree. i will happily change my opinion if you can provide the facts/data.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,761
4,282
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I don't see a single shred of evidence he has more data that the single test he describes in the article.
Heat conduction is a fairly simple math problem (especially since we can safely consider just 1-dimensional heat conduction in a typical steak). Feel free to do the calculations and post them here that disprove that article. I'll wait.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,724
3,004
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Why don't we flip the script then and try to provide the facts/data that leaving your steak out for an hour will bring it to room temperature.


or we can just agree to disagree

Amazing Ribs said:
I tried it with a 3/4" steak and a really accurate thermocouple. It took just more than an hour for the center to come to room temp.

Serious Eats said:
After the first 20 minutes—the time that many chefs and books will recommend you let a steak rest at room temperature—the center of the steak had risen to a whopping 39.8°F. Not even a full two degrees. So I let it go longer. 30 minutes. 50 minutes. 1 hour and 20 minutes. After 1 hour and 50 minutes, the steak was up to 49.6°F in the center. Still colder than the cold water comes out of my tap in the summer, and only about 13% closer to its target temperature of a medium-rare 130°F than the steak in the fridge.

These are actually pretty contrasting for both being done in a scientific manner, however I have a feeling the Serious Eats steak, with bone in and being much thicker is the reason for this disparity.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,556
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I don't see a single shred of evidence he has more data that the single test he describes in the article.

In this case, you're referring to the time it takes x dimension of steak to rise y degrees F at z ambient temperature? That's a general chemistry/physics problem.

also: lol, didn't read (that specific article/know that was the test you wanted repeated multiple times, for reasons.) :p

But probably like you, I tend to stick with what has usually worked for me unless I see something there that is not only more efficient, but improves on the way I do things significantly enough that it's worth adopting.

For example, while I'm really interested in sous vide eggs, I'm not going to bother with this 3-28 hour insanity when I am perfectly happy with my over-easy or fried eggs that take roughly 2-3 minutes prep & cook time total.
 
Last edited:

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,761
4,282
126
what kind of pussy cooks a 3/4" steak?
I do all the time. Try to expand your thoughts beyond just beef. Just based on the geometry of different animals, sometimes you can only butcher certain cuts in a thinner slice.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,599
126
I do all the time. Try to expand your thoughts beyond just beef. Just based on the geometry of different animals, sometimes you can only butcher certain cuts in a thinner slice.

that's not my problem, the store has many different sized cuts for me to choose from. as somebody who is not a pussy, I like my steaks thick (similar to bull penis).

I guess I leave the 3/4" cuts for pussies who marinate their steak in Worcestershire and leave that shit sitting out for 20 minutes as if it'll make some sort of fucking difference.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
49,992
6,300
136
Dijon mustard is great for mixing into all sorts of sauces. I guess GP is just easier to find everywhere. I bought the large-sized 2 pack (I think 32 oz each?) at Costco a few months ago for $7 and that pretty much sits in the fridge as something I take out when I want to make some sort of sauce: "Well, I'll add some dijon, I guess, because it already has most of what I want when making any sauce."


Plebs: Dijon is not to be confused with Yellow mustard. Yellow mustard has its uses, but it is not a versatile tool that you really ever want to mix into a sauce.

To me at least, GP tastes different than regular dijons. In my fridge, I have yellow mustard, honey dijon, regular dijon, and GP. Been getting back into paninis lately...seriously considering a heavy-duty panini press because I've been having smashed sandwiches nearly every day for lunch. It's amazing how much a thin layer of a good spread can affect the taste, especially stuff like pesto or GP, even on something as simple as a grilled cheese!

As far as sandwiches go, generally-speaking, I've found that bread is by far the most critical component. You can have crap ingredients like packaged deli meats & cheeses (the kind that are really only 51% cheese) & still have a great sandwich if the bread is really awesome. Lately I've been on the search for good cheese...so may cheeses have like no flavor to my palette. I actually like stuff like Kraft more than a lot of real cheeses simply because you can actually taste it! So basically good bread + a good spread = 80% of the sandwich imo so far.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,556
30,775
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To me at least, GP tastes different than regular dijons. In my fridge, I have yellow mustard, honey dijon, regular dijon, and GP. Been getting back into paninis lately...seriously considering a heavy-duty panini press because I've been having smashed sandwiches nearly every day for lunch. It's amazing how much a thin layer of a good spread can affect the taste, especially stuff like pesto or GP, even on something as simple as a grilled cheese!

As far as sandwiches go, generally-speaking, I've found that bread is by far the most critical component. You can have crap ingredients like packaged deli meats & cheeses (the kind that are really only 51% cheese) & still have a great sandwich if the bread is really awesome. Lately I've been on the search for good cheese...so may cheeses have like no flavor to my palette. I actually like stuff like Kraft more than a lot of real cheeses simply because you can actually taste it! So basically good bread + a good spread = 80% of the sandwich imo so far.

well, for a straight up comparison of dijon for GP, try Maille if you haven't, which is easier to find these days. I prefer it but iirc, it is a bit pricier than GP, but both are interchangeable.

yeah good bread is critical, but you also don't want too much of it. It needs to be crispy and soft--crumbly with a soft inner texture and while a great Italian or french sd loaf is great on its own for bread purposes, those can break your jaw when applied to sandwiches.