I can't squat, anyone else?

[darkxshade]

No, this is not about the barbell squat at the gym. I'm talking about plain squatting. Maybe it's my bodyframe or weight distribution but if I try to squat low flatfooted, I will fall backwards onto my ass, best I can do is parallel. In order for me not to fall over, I have to be on my toes and heel off the ground[like a baseball catcher] or lean against the wall. I don't know why, I'm fairly flexible since I stretch after every workout, maybe I'm just not flexible at the hips/ankle? Is there anything I can do, it bothers me because it makes me think my weighted barbell squats could be a lot better if I had balance to begin with.

I'm fine with barbell squats though since I can distribute more weight toward the front to keep my center of gravity even.

 

[BlackTigers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAnPwJPb3Fk

Hi there, weak hip flexors. <3

 

[brikis98]

It could be a flexibility issue in your hamstrings, hips or ankles. Alternatively, your technique might just suck, such as having your legs too close together, not pushing your knees out, etc. Post a video.

 

[darkxshade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAnPwJPb3Fk

Hi there, weak hip flexors. <3

Interesting, I'll have to give that a try... I never thought about using a kettleball as counterweight. I figured my normal squatting routine would eventually make me able to do it without weights. :\

/headsmack

 

[darkxshade]

It could be a flexibility issue in your hamstrings, hips or ankles. Alternatively, your technique might just suck, such as having your legs too close together, not pushing your knees out, etc. Post a video.

No camera so I have been going by instincts. I'm almost certain it's a flexibility thing since I do the barbell squats just fine all the way down with the proper arch. However without weights, when I try to lean forward more to balance my way down, first area I feel the most strain on are my ankles followed by the hips.

As a side note, not sure if knees have anything to do with it but I did fracture my tibia when I was in HS and have a surgical screw in place.

 

[HN]

as you're looking into doing crossfit WODs, you're gonna need to learn these. they come up every once in awhile (<-- *edit* wtf is this? that doesn't look like a wink)

some more vids for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOdwETDQXCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1FpWEfJW1s

 

[darkxshade]

well I didn't say I was looking to do CF WODs but I was quite interested in a few of the videos I saw with CF routines that did require squatting like the overhead barbell squats which is why I started this thread.

 

[Hecubus28]

Not sure if you read this article over at Tmag but it really helped me with my squats.

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_thirdworld_squat

 

[brikis98]

A few more useful resources for learning to squat properly:

Starting Strength: best tutorial I've seen for all the major barbell lifts
Dan John FitCast
Squat Rx (watch the whole series)
Stronglifts squat tutorial

 

[HN]

A few more useful resources for learning to squat properly:

Starting Strength: best tutorial I've seen for all the major barbell lifts
Dan John FitCast
Squat Rx (watch the whole series)
Stronglifts squat tutorial

I think darkxshade is looking into air squats.

well I didn't say I was looking to do CF WODs but I was quite interested in a few of the videos I saw with CF routines that did require squatting like the overhead barbell squats which is why I started this thread.

sorry, misinterpreted comment from the spotter thread.
but, i think once you do try some out, you might just get hooked

 

[brikis98]

I think darkxshade is looking into air squats.

The technique for them and the exercises to develop the requisite flexibility are largely the same.

 

[darkxshade]

Well I just got back from the gym... as far as depth go, I'm pretty much ass to ground holding a 10lb weight out in front but as soon as I dropped the weight, I fell backwards.

The great thing about it was that when I went to my actual squat routine with the barbell, I felt my form was a bit better[that's not to say it was bad to begin with but there was always room for improvement]... got more ROM and squatted lower with less strain on my knees and quads, also felt my hips and upper back picking up more of the slack as a result... basically the weight felt more evenly distributed across my body.

I normally don't do this[10 lb counterweighted air squat] as part of my workout but I did it a few more times with each succession I was able to hold my stance a split second longer so I guess it'll be the "warmup" to my actual squats until I can properly stay up on my own. Not to mention it sort of helped improve my actual weighted squats.

On the topic of CF(Grace?), I also tried the clean & jerk today for the first time. Man that was fun... I was only able to do 10 @ 95 lbs. I did 3 sets though. My form also left a lot to be desired. Something new to work on I guess.

 

[alkemyst]

Smith machine and a bench to 'sit' on is something that can work for you. You need a low enough bench to get you to at least parallel. The smith machine will keep you from falling.

Do these for a while then graduate to free squats.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Smith machine and a bench to 'sit' on is something that can work for you. You need a low enough bench to get you to at least parallel. The smith machine will keep you from falling.

Do these for a while then graduate to free squats.

Nope. Worst advice ever. Start with body weight squats. Do a lot of stretching. He can't be so inflexible that squatting with a free bar and bench is impossible. The smith machine will teach bad habits, including poor gluteal drive and no stabilizer utilization. I don't care what you say. The smith machine can go die in a fire.

 

[alkemyst]

lol yeah smith machines are worthless.

man your advice keeps getting better.

OP, if you want to get big, lift. If you want to play Billy Blanks, get a broomstick and dance, dance, dance.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

lol yeah smith machines are worthless.

man your advice keeps getting better.

OP, if you want to get big, lift. If you want to play Billy Blanks, get a broomstick and dance, dance, dance.

Bahahahaha. Useless for anything having to do with a squatting motion, unless you have a severe injury that's being rehabbed by a professional. Go talk to any serious strength and conditioning coach - whether it's track, football, powerlifting, soccer, etc. You'll find that, as experience increases, hatred for the smith machine also increases.

Would you care to explain why using the smith machine would be more beneficial than practicing body weight squats, doing stretching, and utilizing weights for counterbalance?

 

[alkemyst]

Smith machines are great for a lot of things...once you are past the initial training or injury phase not so great.

I am using a smith machine for presses right now due to being able to keep my range of motion just inside where I have pain.

 

[Howard]

Could be the inflexibility of your ankles. Leaning forward at the hips should prevent backwards falling, but you won't be able to do that unless the tops of your feet can't come closer to your shins. Do you do any calf stretches?

EDIT: Just checked and my shin gets about 45 degrees to the floor, feet flat, using just my body weight.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Could be the inflexibility of your ankles. Leaning forward at the hips should prevent backwards falling, but you won't be able to do that unless the tops of your feet can't come closer to your shins. Do you do any calf stretches?

EDIT: Just checked and my shin gets about 45 degrees to the floor, feet flat, using just my body weight.

Very, very infrequently is the flexibility of ankles anything to worry about. If you can walk, your ankles can typically get down into the squat. The heel comes up off the floor frequently due to inflexibility in the iliopsoas (hip flexors) or the glutes. He said holding a weight out for counter-balance worked. That hints that it's posterior chain that's giving him problems (hamstring and glutes).

 

[brikis98]

lol yeah smith machines are worthless.

man your advice keeps getting better.

OP, if you want to get big, lift. If you want to play Billy Blanks, get a broomstick and dance, dance, dance.

The technique for a squat on a smith machine is VASTLY different than what you do with free weights. Compare these images:

Smith machine squat
Free weight back squat

On the smith machine, you essentially squat your ass behind your legs with the back leaning against the bar for support. This largely removes the participation of the back, hamstrings, glutes and adductors from the squat and makes it a quad exercise; I also suspect that without the hamstring involvement, this style of squatting will put unhealthy stress on the knees. Finally, it also makes it nearly impossible to go below parallel, so this doesn't help the OP's flexibility/technique issues at all. On the other hand, in a free weight squat, you squat between your legs, below parallel, with your back supporting the weight. This allows the entire posterior chain to participate in the exercise, providing a significantly better training effect.

In short, alkemyst's advice is terrible, as usual.

 

[Pantlegz]

when I air squat I always put my arms out in front of my to keep my balance. If I try to keep them at my side I always get too back heavy and have to pick my heels up. Might want to try that? Other than that, just stretch a lot I think SL has stretches to do if you're not able to do squats correctly. Might want to check them out too.

 

[gramboh]

The technique for a squat on a smith machine is VASTLY different than what you do with free weights. Compare these images:

Smith machine squat
Free weight back squat

On the smith machine, you essentially squat your ass behind your legs with the back leaning against the bar for support. This largely removes the participation of the back, hamstrings, glutes and adductors from the squat and makes it a quad exercise; I also suspect that without the hamstring involvement, this style of squatting will put unhealthy stress on the knees. Finally, it also makes it nearly impossible to go below parallel, so this doesn't help the OP's flexibility/technique issues at all. On the other hand, in a free weight squat, you squat between your legs, below parallel, with your back supporting the weight. This allows the entire posterior chain to participate in the exercise, providing a significantly better training effect.

In short, alkemyst's advice is terrible, as usual.

Pisarenko FTW.

OP, listen to brikis and SC they are spot on (as usual). One thing that might help you that I haven't heard mentioned yet, think about shoving your knees out as you descend (knees should track over toes, which are pointed out ~30 degrees or whatever is comfortable for you).

 

[RESmonkey]

I have this problem, too. It's only when I have a barbell on me that I can go fully deep and keep balance. I haven't squated in a while, but I fall into the full front squat position from doing olympic cleans and I'm able to naturally fall into (or what I think is) the proper position.

I am also wearing weightlifting (slightly heeled) shoes when I lift.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Pisarenko FTW.

OP, listen to brikis and SC they are spot on (as usual). One thing that might help you that I haven't heard mentioned yet, think about shoving your knees out as you descend (knees should track over toes, which are pointed out ~30 degrees or whatever is comfortable for you).

What do you mean by "shoving your knees out?" Do you mean forward or laterally? It might be a bad cue if you mean forwards, just because that would put him in a spot where he'd put his weight on his toes. Typically, I tell people to push their hips back and bend at their knees the same time their hips "break." This gets them to keep their weight on their toes, and hopefully gets them to use their posterior chain a bit more.

 

[alkemyst]

The technique for a squat on a smith machine is VASTLY different than what you do with free weights. Compare these images:

snip

In short, alkemyst's advice is terrible, as usual.

as is yours.

I never said it was the same movement. I said it would help him and it would.