"I can create a Neanderthal baby"

[darkxshade]

Would this neanderthal be able/allowed to reproduce? Because I'm absolutely sure there will be women that will want a piece of it.

 

[techs]

Since it would not be "human" it would have no human rights.
We could pretty much do whatever we wanted with them, couldn't we?

 

[zinfamous]

LOL. It's an 'update' to a volume that was published years ago. Theories and ideas have changed in light of new data, like the sequencing of the Neanderthal genome. Scientists are pretty notorious for revisioning...it's kinda integral to doing science!

I know, man. I work on the genetics side of evolution. In fact, the majority of what our lab does is whole genome, transcriptome, ChIP-seq...and now riboprofiling (I hope) sequencing.

 

[PokerGuy]

This has all the makings of a movie. Science figures out a way to "clone" a neanderthal back from extinction, only to discover shocking secrets that had remained hidden for 35,000 years. We're doomed!

 

[Broheim]

how about we clean out our own genepool before we start spilling over into one that had the good sense to go exstinct.

 

[Gibsons]

I know, man. I work on the genetics side of evolution. In fact, the majority of what our lab does is whole genome, transcriptome, ChIP-seq...and now riboprofiling (I hope) sequencing.

What do you mean by riboprofiling? Is this a ripseq sort of thing, or arrays....?

 

[Iron Woode]

wait, not one comment along the lines of How is Babby Formed?

OT has let me down.

 

[Drako]

wait, not one comment along the lines of How is Babby Formed?

OT has let me down.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34528112&postcount=16

 

[Broheim]

At least we know how a Neanderthal babby is formed.

wait, not one comment along the lines of How is Babby Formed?

OT has let me down.

NO, YOU HAVE LET OT DOWN!!!

caps

 

[zinfamous]

how about we clean out our own genepool before we start spilling over into one that had the good sense to go exstinct.

lol

What do you mean by riboprofiling? Is this a ripseq sort of thing, or arrays....?

sequencing (Illumina) at the resolution of translation stage. so, the little ~35mer mRNA fragments protected by ribosomes, that are actually being translated at x moment.


super cool.

there are currently 3 papers on it. my first attempt was, well...disaster. starting again next week

 

[Iron Woode]

NO, YOU HAVE LET OT DOWN!!!

caps

I didn't see it.

I feel happy now.

 

[Gibsons]

lol



sequencing (Illumina) at the resolution of translation stage. so, the little ~35mer mRNA fragments protected by ribosomes, that are actually being translated at x moment.


super cool.

there are currently 3 papers on it. my first attempt was, well...disaster. starting again next week

hm. Okay, without googling I'm going to guess - something like a triton lysis, precipitate ribosomes with an antibody or three, digest w/ rnase, then purify intact RNA, RT and sequence what's left?

crap, that sounds difficult as hell. Don't sneeze.

 

[zinfamous]

hm. Okay, without googling I'm going to guess - something like a triton lysis, precipitate ribosomes with an antibody or three, digest w/ rnase, then purify intact RNA, RT and sequence what's left?

crap, that sounds difficult as hell. Don't sneeze.

I can't discuss or show the current protocol, as it is unpublished and I was specifically requested not to, but yeah most of that is about right.

This is one of the papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3225288/

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I can't discuss or show the current protocol, as it is unpublished and I was specifically requested not to, but yeah most of that is about right.

This is one of the papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3225288/

Well fuck, why don't you just clone us a cave man then!?!?! I'm pretty confident we could find an adventurous human female here. Where's Trident?

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I can't discuss or show the current protocol, as it is unpublished and I was specifically requested not to, but yeah most of that is about right.

This is one of the papers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3225288/

Also, as an avid reader of Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH:'( FUCK YOU!

 

[SlitheryDee]

so when the experiment is over will they dissect it?

 

[Geosurface]

If it is ever possible I would like to see a Neanderthal cloned and I would also like to know once and for all whether chimps and humans can interbreed. There are rumors just such a birth took place in the 20's at a university medical lab in the states and was quickly euthanized. I have no idea if that is just a bullshit rumor or true, but whether it is possible through normal means or only through genetic manipulation... I think these sorts of experiments would be very enlightening to humanity about the distinctions between species, would spread understanding of evolution, and advance science in general.

I would also like to see mammoths cloned, etc. I am very much pro-science.

 

[zinfamous]

If it is ever possible I would like to see a Neanderthal cloned and I would also like to know once and for all whether chimps and humans can interbreed. There are rumors just such a birth took place in the 20's at a university medical lab in the states and was quickly euthanize. I have no idea if that is just a bullshit rumor or true, but whether it is possible through normal means or only through genetic manipulation... I think these sorts of experiments would be very enlightening to humanity about the distinctions between species, would spread understanding of evolution, and advance science in general.

I would also like to see mammoths cloned, etc. I am very much pro-science.

--hilariously not possible.

--more or less possible.

 

[Broheim]

--hilariously not possible.

--more or less possible.

yup

chimps and humans can't interbreed, we're too distant genetically speaking.

cloning a mammoth wouldn't be "too hard", and would also not present the ethical issues of cloning a neanderthal.

 

[Geosurface]

--hilariously not possible..

chimps and humans can't interbreed, we're too distant genetically speaking.

This level of chromosomal similarity is roughly equivalent to that found in equines.

In a direct parallel to the chimp-human case, the Przewalski horse (Equus przewalskii) with 33 chromosome pairs, and the domestic horse (E. caballus) with 32 chromosome pairs, have been found to be interfertile, and produce semi-fertile offspring, where male hybrids can breed with female domestic horses.

Humanzee

Oliver the Chimp BBC documentary

My understanding is that the genetic distance between humans and chimps is actually LESS than that between horses and donkeys.

So the question becomes, is it "hilariously not possible" or is it surrounded by so much taboo, fear, and too dangerous to things like religious ideas, etc... that the tests to confirm it's possibility or impossibility just simply aren't done. Or aren't known to the general public?

 

[eits]

i'd be interested to know what the gestation period is for a neanderthal and what the average size of a neanderthal baby is when it's born. i mean, if the gestation period is like 11 months and the baby weights like 15 lbs, it would damn near kill a human surrogate.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

So the question becomes, is it "hilariously not possible" or is it surrounded by so much taboo, fear, and too dangerous to things like religious ideas, etc... that the tests to confirm it's possibility or impossibility just simply aren't done. Or aren't known to the general public?

It's not hilariously not possible. It is entirely plausible. But it is absolutely taboo and monstrously unethical to test, so we'll never know. (Hopefully.)

i'd be interested to know what the gestation period is for a neanderthal and what the average size of a neanderthal baby is when it's born. i mean, if the gestation period is like 11 months and the baby weights like 15 lbs, it would damn near kill a human surrogate.

Same as living humans for both gestation length and birth size.

 

[eits]

It's not hilariously not possible. It is entirely plausible. But it is absolutely taboo and monstrously unethical to test, so we'll never know. (Hopefully.)



Same as living humans for both gestation length and birth size.

how do the know? have they found fossils with babies inside the womb and outside of the womb and made an educated guess based on bone formation rates in humans?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

how do the know? have they found fossils with babies inside the womb and outside of the womb and made an educated guess based on bone formation rates in humans?

The short version is that this research is hampered by the lack of infant fossils in the record; because infant skeletons aren't fully ossified, they preserve neither as well nor as often as adult skeletons. And the enamel in your teeth doesn't remodel constantly through life like the rest of the skeleton, so teeth can yield information on growth rates throughout life. That said, we have a few Neanderthal infant skeletons, and we have a lot of Neanderthal teeth.

We know from their teeth that they grew up a bit faster than most living humans (though there's substantial variation in growth rates of both teeth and skeletons in living humans). And we know from the skeletons about how large they were at birth. I should qualify my earlier statement that they were the same size as us at birth - on average it appears they were a bit bigger, but that's explainable entirely by the fact that they were, as adults, a bit bigger than us, too. Not because they spent more time growing in utero.

Here's the reconstruction of a Neanderthal in utero:

 

[Gibsons]

It's not hilariously not possible. It is entirely plausible. But it is absolutely taboo and monstrously unethical to test, so we'll never know. (Hopefully.)

I can only imagine trying to put something like that through an IRB. They probably don't get past the first sentence before the NO stamp comes out.