I bought a stick car...and never drove stick before :(

[amdhunter]

I traded in my Civic in because of piss-poor quality issues, and decided to go with some German engineering, and ended up with a 2007 Jetta GLi.

I decided to go ahead and get a manual because I have always wanted to learn, and so far I seem to be doing ok. I am just scared of myself doing long term harm to the car and would like a few suggestions, hints..etc.

First a couple of questions that I keep getting conflicting answers on.

1) I keep getting told that I shouldn't leave the clutch halfway. Fine, but how am I supposed to take off smoothly in 1st gear? I've been revving it up ~1200RPMs or so, and slowly releasing the clutch till I feel it, then going in and usually take off smoothly. It takes me ~1½ - 2 seconds to get the car moving completely. I've only been driving a few days, so I hope to improve on this. Is revving it at 1200RPMs with clutch halfway gonna kill the clutch? If so, how else would I take off?

2) How long should it take from clutch pedal down, to fully up when upshifting... I've been timing the shifts very fast and usually change the clutch within 1/2 second to the next gear up. For example, I depress clutch, then change gear, then quickly raise gear before the rpms drop off too much to avoid dropping speed. Many times, I can catch the gear perfectly and you don't even feel the shift! A friend told me that it was bad to release the clutch pedal so fast, and it should take about a second to shift.

3) At a stop sign, or a lot of stop and go traffic, how much damage am I causing by keeping the clutch all the way depressed with brake on, rather than shifting into nuetral each time? I can't find a straight answer to this. I know I can kill the throwout bearing, but no one I know has ever run into that problem.

4) This is what kills me the fvcking most. EVERYONE is telling me that I should EXPECT to kill my 1st clutch...this gets me angry and makes me regret getting a manual. Is it so hard to expect to NOT kill a clutch, even if you are a n00b driver? Seriously, am I really going to be doomed to killing my new car? I feel like I am driving fine, I haven't grinded once yet, and have never smelled clutch. This pisses me off when people say I am going to HAVE to change the clutch no matter what.

I'll take any suggestions you guys can offer. Just an FYI, except for taking off into 1st gear smoothly, and downshifting (which I avoid right now, until I can feel rev matching better) I move the car fine.

For the most part, my shifting is smooth and you can't even tell when I change gears most of the time (because I shift fast before rpms drop) and I am being ultra aware about overreving the car in first.

Here is me trying to move the car on my 2nd day (and less than 2 hours total) driving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0BzovPMeO8

random pic --> http://amdhunter.net/widescreen.JPG

Please help me with any suggestions. I don't want to kill my clutch.

 

[zerocool84]

Honestly just take it easy and don't listen to what others think. They are telling you their way to drive and you seem you are not comfortable. Every car is different to drive. Saying to let out the clutch on a certain rpm is going to be different on every car. Seriously go to an empty lot and drive around. It is better to give it too much gas in an open lot when you are learning than it is to give it not enough and die out. Someone telling you that you are shifting to fast??? Hell it's not a sports car just drive it how you feel comfortable. Honestly you won't kill your new clutch driving the way you are. You may shorten the lifespan slightly but after you learn it should last you a long time.

 

[railer]

1) that's about how you do it. once you get good, you'll be fluid and lose the 2 sec delay.

2) tell your friend he shifts like an old lady. You can pop the clutch in and out just as fast as you can shift the gear lever.

3) wtf? I have never heard of anyone shifting into neutral at every stop. I only do that if my leg gets tired, and I know it's going to be a long wait. keep doing what your doing.

4) people are idiots. You're not going to kill your clutch. I've got a 13 year old stick with 140k on it, and the original clutch. I drive like a maniac. I've taught my wife to drive on it. She's terrible! She grinds my gears, pops my clutch, does smokey burnouts at every light....etc. I have to change my clothes after driving with her, to get the smell of burned clutch out of my nostrils. And after all of that, my clutch is still fine. You won't have to change your clutch.

Sounds like you're doing fine. When you're up for a challenge, find a steep hill and practive starting on it from a dead stop. Once you can do that without thinking about it, you will never go back to a slush.

Good luck! Let us know how you make out.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Sounds alright to me for a beginner and all that stuff will get quicker, easier, and smoother over time. As you do it longer you will get a better feel for where the clutch starts to grab and you won't have do #1 anymore. Yeah leaving the clutch in at stops hurts the throwhout bearing but I really doubt you will kill it quicker then you kill the clutch so don't really worry too much about it. I always shift to neutral at lights but more so I don't kill my knee then the thowout bearing. You probably will add some extra wear on to the clutch being a newb but again its not really enough to worry about unless you are just horrible at it.

 

[TimboAA]

Well, first of all, congrats for buying a VDub. Now chip that 2.0T and you'll have some fun! If you want another forum to get sucked into, visit www.vwvortex.com

1. What railer said. eventually you'll get faster and not even need to rev the car to get it moving. I can successfully let off the clutch and get moving without stepping on the gas. Also, try not having the music blaring...you'll need to listen to the motor to get a feel for it The engine is now your soundtrack. Another tip.... if you feel like the car is going to stall, immediately push the clutch all the way down. It will save the car from stalling and keep you from being too demoralized.

2. Not long.

3. Ideally, you don't want to keep the clutch pedal depressed for too long. I've ruined a brand new throw-out bearing on my older VW by doing this and starting in 2nd gear. For example, if you watch a light turn to red and you just pull up to it, there is no reason for you to keep the clutch pedal pushed down. Just shift into neutral and relax. Besides, you need to practice going from a stand-still to moving :-D

4. You won't kill your clutch by learning how to drive.....granted if you haven't figured it out in 10,000 miles..well, i make no promises.


Just relax when you're learning. Turn it into a game of balance with your feet. Keep the RPMs at 1000 when going from a stand still to moving. The key thing is that when you start to release the clutch, the RPMs will drop. So give it a little more gas. Hills are generally the beginners worst nightmare. Some people rev the piss out of the car, others will use the E-Brake to help them. They will hold the E-Brake up with the release button depressed and slowly let the e-brake down as they start moving while on a hill.


Don't worry about Rev matching until you've got everything else going. Just make sure you're not at a high RPM when you decide to down shift, don't race anyone with the GLI yet either. And being in that car, I know some people will probably try to. Good luck, and check out the VWVortex and start modding

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: amdhunter
I traded in my Civic in because of piss-poor quality issues, and decided to go with some German engineering, and ended up with a 2007 Jetta GLi. Ahahahaha - quality issues....VW.....:laugh:

I decided to go ahead and get a manual because I have always wanted to learn, and so far I seem to be doing ok. I am just scared of myself doing long term harm to the car and would like a few suggestions, hints..etc.

First a couple of questions that I keep getting conflicting answers on.

1) I keep getting told that I shouldn't leave the clutch halfway. Fine, but how am I supposed to take off smoothly in 1st gear? I've been revving it up ~1200RPMs or so, and slowly releasing the clutch till I feel it, then going in and usually take off smoothly. It takes me ~1½ - 2 seconds to get the car moving completely. I've only been driving a few days, so I hope to improve on this. Is revving it at 1200RPMs with clutch halfway gonna kill the clutch? If so, how else would I take off? You need to remember that your end goal needs to be to slip the clutch as little as possible while still remaining smooth and accelerating as necessary. That said, coming from a start, slipping for 1-2 seconds is fine.

2) How long should it take from clutch pedal down, to fully up when upshifting... I've been timing the shifts very fast and usually change the clutch within 1/2 second to the next gear up. For example, I depress clutch, then change gear, then quickly raise gear before the rpms drop off too much to avoid dropping speed. Many times, I can catch the gear perfectly and you don't even feel the shift! A friend told me that it was bad to release the clutch pedal so fast, and it should take about a second to shift. Your friend is a moron. As long as it is smooth and you aren't slipping the clutch for a long time, you're good.

3) At a stop sign, or a lot of stop and go traffic, how much damage am I causing by keeping the clutch all the way depressed with brake on, rather than shifting into nuetral each time? I can't find a straight answer to this. I know I can kill the throwout bearing, but no one I know has ever run into that problem. Unless you need to be ready to go in-gear, leave it in neutral with your foot OFF the clutch. I think the throwout bearing is the main thing here, but I could be wrong. It's not like you will kill it at 10K miles doing this, but it will increase the lifelong maintenance you have to do for the tranny.

4) This is what kills me the fvcking most. EVERYONE is telling me that I should EXPECT to kill my 1st clutch...this gets me angry and makes me regret getting a manual. Is it so hard to expect to NOT kill a clutch, even if you are a n00b driver? Seriously, am I really going to be doomed to killing my new car? I feel like I am driving fine, I haven't grinded once yet, and have never smelled clutch. This pisses me off when people say I am going to HAVE to change the clutch no matter what. Reality check: you're driving a JETTA. To kill a clutch easily, you either have to have a buttload of power or you have to slip the clutch like CRAZY, or both. I had two driving experiences with a stick before I got my car, both lasting ~5 minutes. I learned to drive my heavy, 400HP RWD V8 6-speed through trial & error and a helpful friend who actually knows what he is talking about, which your friend doesn't (Thanks again Marlin ). Whoever is telling you all this stuff like shifting too fast or that you WILL kill your first clutch is a damn idiot and you need to tell them to STFU. Try to slip the clutch as little as possible while still being smooth and you'll be fine. Don't do stupid sh!t like trying to slam 2nd to 3rd and going back into 1st. If it feels really hard trying to get into a gear, make sure you're not trying to put it in the wrong gear - your synchros will prevent you from going into a low gear @ high speed or into reverse while moving forward, but you CAN jam through them and grind gears. Reality is that manually transmissions are very robust. They can take some abuse and still last a good long while.

I'll take any suggestions you guys can offer. Just an FYI, except for taking off into 1st gear smoothly, and downshifting (which I avoid right now, until I can feel rev matching better) I move the car fine.

For the most part, my shifting is smooth and you can't even tell when I change gears most of the time (because I shift fast before rpms drop) and I am being ultra aware about overreving the car in first.

Here is me trying to move the car on my 2nd day (and less than 2 hours total) driving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0BzovPMeO8

random pic --> http://amdhunter.net/widescreen.JPG

Please help me with any suggestions. I don't want to kill my clutch.

It sounds like you're doing well overall man - a lot better than I did my first day! Here's a story to help you feel better:

I was still very nervous about starting on hills. I had just gotten a good instructional lesson from my buddy and was much better at starting. Since my car has a lot of torque and the gears are so close, I was starting in 2nd since my brain was having trouble with me slipping the clutch (I had it in my head that it was an on/off process - no no no ). Well I come up on this exit ramp and am waiting to turn left, of course at a REALLY steep hill just at the stop light where they were working on the roads, so that 10 feet in front of the light was a steep drop down. What happens? Some jagoff in an SUV climbs up my ass sitting at the light. I'm feeling nervous, the light goes green, I'm still in 2nd, and I rev the SH!T out of it in 2nd gear on a steep hill. I must have hit 4000-5000rpm, slipping the clutch in 2nd gear, no joke. We got to our destination a few miles down the road and the air STUNK of burnt clutch. Jesus it was bad. She's still doing well to this day, getting close to 10K miles and nearly a year of ownership.

 

[zoiks]

Your car looks like a cab.

 

[Fenixgoon]

dude, the YTMND sparta soundtrack is friggin hilarious!!!! :laugh::laugh:

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I was still very nervous about starting on hills. I had just gotten a good instructional lesson from my buddy and was much better at starting. Since my car has a lot of torque and the gears are so close, I was starting in 2nd since my brain was having trouble with me slipping the clutch (I had it in my head that it was an on/off process - no no no ). Well I come up on this exit ramp and am waiting to turn left, of course at a REALLY steep hill just at the stop light where they were working on the roads, so that 10 feet in front of the light was a steep drop down. What happens? Some jagoff in an SUV climbs up my ass sitting at the light. I'm feeling nervous, the light goes green, I'm still in 2nd, and I rev the SH!T out of it in 2nd gear on a steep hill. I must have hit 4000-5000rpm, slipping the clutch in 2nd gear, no joke. We got to our destination a few miles down the road and the air STUNK of burnt clutch. Jesus it was bad. She's still doing well to this day, getting close to 10K miles and nearly a year of ownership.

Heh I know what that's like... the smell that is. I was going up a hill and I think I was shifting from 2nd to 3rd in my Talon (TSi AWD, so it had a bit of power to boot) and I think I forgot to ease up on the accelerator. Either that or I dumped the clutch and that was quite a balls-to-the-wall launch there. After reaching my destination, you could still smell the launch.

I'm still a bit curious as to what caused my Talon's clutch disc to glaze over (causing around 90% slippage). I don't recall ever riding the clutch or slipping the clutch much after I got better at driving it. Hmm maybe I did but didn't realize it... who knows!

All I know is, after playing with the manumatic mode in my car, it makes me want to go out and buy some old RWD manual car... something like a 240SX but without the price increase from being popular.

 

[Kelvrick]

My first manual car was my 06 subaru legacy. Called up a friend to have him drive it home from the dealership for me. I've burned the clutch a few times and still doing well at 14k. I'm waiting to wear out the wheels and clutch so I can get some better stuff in there. I'm too cheap to replace stuff that still works.

 

[exdeath]

Didn't see the video, just going by what you said:

1) When taking off or shifting casually there will be deserable slippage, that is normal and factored into normal clutch wear and lifespan. Not allowing some brief slip you will suffer a harsh ride and create all sorts of problems resulting in repetitive drive train shock or even stalling if you do it too fast. What you are describing sounds fine.

2) However long the situation dictates. When speed shifting when racing, it should be so fast it feels like an automatic (at the expense of accelerated wear and tear on components). Or you can do the opposite, having just up shifted you find you need to delay your acceleration in the next gear (ie: brake lights ahead) so you coast a bit in the new gear before releasing the clutch. Again what you described sounds alright. 1/2 a second is fast for most people. It also depends on gearing. The shorter the gears (ie: performance car) the faster you need to shift because you only have a 500 RPM window. With taller gears (ie: economy car) you have a much bigger drop between gears and have more time to allow the revs to match before releasing the clutch. Basically by the time you fully release the clutch your RPM shouldn't change anymore until you accelerate. What you don't want to do is not let it drop enough or drop too much then have the revs change suddenly and forcibly when you release the clutch. The only thing that really dictates your shifting speed once you are experienced and can shift the gear selector as fast as you want, is the 'reset' and 'bounce' time on the clutch pedal when you release it immediately.

3) Keep the clutch pedal in all the way fully disengages the clutch. There is no slipping or clutch wear occurring. Slipping only occurs then the pedal is nearly released but not all the way such that the clutch disc has started to grip, but isn't fully clamped.

4) They are full of it. Even with less than perfect driving the stock clutch should last well over 100,000 miles.

It sounds like you are doing just fine. Is your friend t3h ric3r?

 

[M2008S]

im 17 and ive taught all my friends stickshift and really the key is practice. feather the gas.. dont just push it down and let the clutch up.. lightly push and let off a hair. start to let out the clutch as you feather the gas and etc. every time you shift you have to sort of get the engine rpms to meet the transmission equally. dont worry about something happening. for in city driving dont run out the gears so much.. shift around 3 grand. saves gas too. dont concentrate really really hard.. just go with it. relax. the hardest part is starting out from a stop or even harder on a hill...

whatever you do... do NOT ride the clutch as you drive. meaning if youre going in gear you dont think and leave your foot slightly pushing the clutch. that is bad. also, you can slow down in gear! dont think to slow down even a few mph you have to push the clutch in. as for stopping just put it in neutral and use brakes for now... until you get used to driving then you can downshift to slow yourself. each car is different... so if youre going about 25mph and its a 5 speed try cruising in 3rd gear to maintain the speed... normally at about 50-55 go to 5th to cruise. one of the main things people want to do is run out the gears and you dont have to.


by the way... i stole my dads truck when i was 13 years old, stick shift ford ranger. almost wrecked but it was fun as hell. also, none of my friends need to replace their clutches and its been more than a year. (friends cars are; 1995 ford f150, 1998 ford escort zx2, 1999 mustang SVT cobra, mitsu evo, 1984 toyota tiny truck)

just dont beat on it till you know what youre doing... also DONT DOG IT its brand new you have to be like grandma to break in the motor for a few thousand imles...

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I was still very nervous about starting on hills. I had just gotten a good instructional lesson from my buddy and was much better at starting. Since my car has a lot of torque and the gears are so close, I was starting in 2nd since my brain was having trouble with me slipping the clutch (I had it in my head that it was an on/off process - no no no ). Well I come up on this exit ramp and am waiting to turn left, of course at a REALLY steep hill just at the stop light where they were working on the roads, so that 10 feet in front of the light was a steep drop down. What happens? Some jagoff in an SUV climbs up my ass sitting at the light. I'm feeling nervous, the light goes green, I'm still in 2nd, and I rev the SH!T out of it in 2nd gear on a steep hill. I must have hit 4000-5000rpm, slipping the clutch in 2nd gear, no joke. We got to our destination a few miles down the road and the air STUNK of burnt clutch. Jesus it was bad. She's still doing well to this day, getting close to 10K miles and nearly a year of ownership.

Heh I know what that's like... the smell that is. I was going up a hill and I think I was shifting from 2nd to 3rd in my Talon (TSi AWD, so it had a bit of power to boot) and I think I forgot to ease up on the accelerator. Either that or I dumped the clutch and that was quite a balls-to-the-wall launch there. After reaching my destination, you could still smell the launch.

I'm still a bit curious as to what caused my Talon's clutch disc to glaze over (causing around 90% slippage). I don't recall ever riding the clutch or slipping the clutch much after I got better at driving it. Hmm maybe I did but didn't realize it... who knows!

All I know is, after playing with the manumatic mode in my car, it makes me want to go out and buy some old RWD manual car... something like a 240SX but without the price increase from being popular.

A : Talons/Eclipses/Lasers were manufactured with all the quality of a vending-machine plastic necklace.

 

[ViviTheMage]

chip that thing ASAP! worth every penny.

as well, very nice choice on the ferenheit ... I test drove one and loved the nice new smoooooth clutch. dont break it

btw those germans built quality clutches..my old 96 jetta vr6 had 180k on it, original clutch/tranny with noooo slipping on it.

my 01 jetta 1.8t now has 120k on it and the clutch still works like a dream, even after testing that ferenheit ... it was just as smooth. just follow the maint. book and that thing should last forever (**)

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: TimboAA
Well, first of all, congrats for buying a VDub. Now chip that 2.0T and you'll have some fun! If you want another forum to get sucked into, visit www.vwvortex.com

1. What railer said. eventually you'll get faster and not even need to rev the car to get it moving. I can successfully let off the clutch and get moving without stepping on the gas. Also, try not having the music blaring...you'll need to listen to the motor to get a feel for it The engine is now your soundtrack. Another tip.... if you feel like the car is going to stall, immediately push the clutch all the way down. It will save the car from stalling and keep you from being too demoralized.

2. Not long.

3. Ideally, you don't want to keep the clutch pedal depressed for too long. I've ruined a brand new throw-out bearing on my older VW by doing this and starting in 2nd gear. For example, if you watch a light turn to red and you just pull up to it, there is no reason for you to keep the clutch pedal pushed down. Just shift into neutral and relax. Besides, you need to practice going from a stand-still to moving :-D

4. You won't kill your clutch by learning how to drive.....granted if you haven't figured it out in 10,000 miles..well, i make no promises.


Just relax when you're learning. Turn it into a game of balance with your feet. Keep the RPMs at 1000 when going from a stand still to moving. The key thing is that when you start to release the clutch, the RPMs will drop. So give it a little more gas. Hills are generally the beginners worst nightmare. Some people rev the piss out of the car, others will use the E-Brake to help them. They will hold the E-Brake up with the release button depressed and slowly let the e-brake down as they start moving while on a hill.


Don't worry about Rev matching until you've got everything else going. Just make sure you're not at a high RPM when you decide to down shift, don't race anyone with the GLI yet either. And being in that car, I know some people will probably try to. Good luck, and check out the VWVortex and start modding

Thanks for the advice. I've been around manual drivers for the last 5 or 6 years (I was the only one who had an automatic...so I know the basics just from looking at them.) I am just getting super mad at others who tell me there is no way that I can keep from burning the clutch. They haven't ridden with me in the car, so I hate that they say that.

Why does it matter what they think? Well, it is making me too self conscious when driving, and it's those moments that I mess up. lol

I've been doing the handbrake thing, but honestly, I am catching myself not even bothering with it already. Only when I start to think about it, is when I mess up...hhaha.

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: amdhunter
I traded in my Civic in because of piss-poor quality issues, and decided to go with some German engineering, and ended up with a 2007 Jetta GLi. Ahahahaha - quality issues....VW.....:laugh:

I decided to go ahead and get a manual because I have always wanted to learn, and so far I seem to be doing ok. I am just scared of myself doing long term harm to the car and would like a few suggestions, hints..etc.

First a couple of questions that I keep getting conflicting answers on.

1) I keep getting told that I shouldn't leave the clutch halfway. Fine, but how am I supposed to take off smoothly in 1st gear? I've been revving it up ~1200RPMs or so, and slowly releasing the clutch till I feel it, then going in and usually take off smoothly. It takes me ~1½ - 2 seconds to get the car moving completely. I've only been driving a few days, so I hope to improve on this. Is revving it at 1200RPMs with clutch halfway gonna kill the clutch? If so, how else would I take off? You need to remember that your end goal needs to be to slip the clutch as little as possible while still remaining smooth and accelerating as necessary. That said, coming from a start, slipping for 1-2 seconds is fine.

2) How long should it take from clutch pedal down, to fully up when upshifting... I've been timing the shifts very fast and usually change the clutch within 1/2 second to the next gear up. For example, I depress clutch, then change gear, then quickly raise gear before the rpms drop off too much to avoid dropping speed. Many times, I can catch the gear perfectly and you don't even feel the shift! A friend told me that it was bad to release the clutch pedal so fast, and it should take about a second to shift. Your friend is a moron. As long as it is smooth and you aren't slipping the clutch for a long time, you're good.

3) At a stop sign, or a lot of stop and go traffic, how much damage am I causing by keeping the clutch all the way depressed with brake on, rather than shifting into nuetral each time? I can't find a straight answer to this. I know I can kill the throwout bearing, but no one I know has ever run into that problem. Unless you need to be ready to go in-gear, leave it in neutral with your foot OFF the clutch. I think the throwout bearing is the main thing here, but I could be wrong. It's not like you will kill it at 10K miles doing this, but it will increase the lifelong maintenance you have to do for the tranny.

4) This is what kills me the fvcking most. EVERYONE is telling me that I should EXPECT to kill my 1st clutch...this gets me angry and makes me regret getting a manual. Is it so hard to expect to NOT kill a clutch, even if you are a n00b driver? Seriously, am I really going to be doomed to killing my new car? I feel like I am driving fine, I haven't grinded once yet, and have never smelled clutch. This pisses me off when people say I am going to HAVE to change the clutch no matter what. Reality check: you're driving a JETTA. To kill a clutch easily, you either have to have a buttload of power or you have to slip the clutch like CRAZY, or both. I had two driving experiences with a stick before I got my car, both lasting ~5 minutes. I learned to drive my heavy, 400HP RWD V8 6-speed through trial & error and a helpful friend who actually knows what he is talking about, which your friend doesn't (Thanks again Marlin ). Whoever is telling you all this stuff like shifting too fast or that you WILL kill your first clutch is a damn idiot and you need to tell them to STFU. Try to slip the clutch as little as possible while still being smooth and you'll be fine. Don't do stupid sh!t like trying to slam 2nd to 3rd and going back into 1st. If it feels really hard trying to get into a gear, make sure you're not trying to put it in the wrong gear - your synchros will prevent you from going into a low gear @ high speed or into reverse while moving forward, but you CAN jam through them and grind gears. Reality is that manually transmissions are very robust. They can take some abuse and still last a good long while.

I'll take any suggestions you guys can offer. Just an FYI, except for taking off into 1st gear smoothly, and downshifting (which I avoid right now, until I can feel rev matching better) I move the car fine.

For the most part, my shifting is smooth and you can't even tell when I change gears most of the time (because I shift fast before rpms drop) and I am being ultra aware about overreving the car in first.

Here is me trying to move the car on my 2nd day (and less than 2 hours total) driving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0BzovPMeO8

random pic --> http://amdhunter.net/widescreen.JPG

Please help me with any suggestions. I don't want to kill my clutch.

It sounds like you're doing well overall man - a lot better than I did my first day! Here's a story to help you feel better:

I was still very nervous about starting on hills. I had just gotten a good instructional lesson from my buddy and was much better at starting. Since my car has a lot of torque and the gears are so close, I was starting in 2nd since my brain was having trouble with me slipping the clutch (I had it in my head that it was an on/off process - no no no ). Well I come up on this exit ramp and am waiting to turn left, of course at a REALLY steep hill just at the stop light where they were working on the roads, so that 10 feet in front of the light was a steep drop down. What happens? Some jagoff in an SUV climbs up my ass sitting at the light. I'm feeling nervous, the light goes green, I'm still in 2nd, and I rev the SH!T out of it in 2nd gear on a steep hill. I must have hit 4000-5000rpm, slipping the clutch in 2nd gear, no joke. We got to our destination a few miles down the road and the air STUNK of burnt clutch. Jesus it was bad. She's still doing well to this day, getting close to 10K miles and nearly a year of ownership.

Thanks for all the advice.

As for the Civic and Quality issues... The interior literally fell apart on me (ceiling fell off, airbags were exposed and numerous rattles everywhere. Also, motor mounts broke on me 2x and even though they kept fixing it, it was annoying. Also, my rear shock seemed to collapse slightly after any bumps.

1) I am slipping it for less than 2 seconds now for sure. I plan to cut it down to half a second soon enough.

2) Thanks for that reply. He kept telling me that I am letting off the clutch too fast. I almost have a perfect timing down where you cant even feel the shift. I swear, sometimes I can catch it so perfectly it outperforms an automatic.

3) Seems to me that letting my foot off the clutch is the best thing to do. I might need to concentrate on this more, since I've already made it a habit to clutch in at stoplights.

4) Like I said, I've been around stick shift drivers for a while. And there are several different people telling me different things, not just one person. I have been asking many many people for opinions. I don't think I will ever really try to gun from a start, until I get very familiar with the car. I have however, taken off in 3rd gear and gunned it a bit...but I was always in gear and never hit the redline.

All of the posts are making me feel better. I will take a better vid this soon to show off my tach as I shift.

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: zoiks
Your car looks like a cab.

It has seemed to earn the name Tweety by my friends...lol.

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Didn't see the video, just going by what you said:

1) When taking off or shifting casually there will be deserable slippage, that is normal and factored into normal clutch wear and lifespan. Not allowing some brief slip you will suffer a harsh ride and create all sorts of problems resulting in repetitive drive train shock or even stalling if you do it too fast. What you are describing sounds fine.

2) However long the situation dictates. When speed shifting when racing, it should be so fast it feels like an automatic (at the expense of accelerated wear and tear on components). Or you can do the opposite, having just up shifted you find you need to delay your acceleration in the next gear (ie: brake lights ahead) so you coast a bit in the new gear before releasing the clutch. Again what you described sounds alright. 1/2 a second is fast for most people. It also depends on gearing. The shorter the gears (ie: performance car) the faster you need to shift because you only have a 500 RPM window. With taller gears (ie: economy car) you have a much bigger drop between gears and have more time to allow the revs to match before releasing the clutch. Basically by the time you fully release the clutch your RPM shouldn't change anymore until you accelerate. What you don't want to do is not let it drop enough or drop too much then have the revs change suddenly and forcibly when you release the clutch. The only thing that really dictates your shifting speed once you are experienced and can shift the gear selector as fast as you want, is the 'reset' and 'bounce' time on the clutch pedal when you release it immediately.

3) Keep the clutch pedal in all the way fully disengages the clutch. There is no slipping or clutch wear occurring. Slipping only occurs then the pedal is nearly released but not all the way such that the clutch disc has started to grip, but isn't fully clamped.

4) They are full of it. Even with less than perfect driving the stock clutch should last well over 100,000 miles.

It sounds like you are doing just fine. Is your friend t3h ric3r?

#2 - I've been timing the rpms perfectly so far. I've found that if I let the rpms drop for longer than a second, my shifts will slow the car down a bit. I've been trying to stay within a 1 second window, and so far so good.

I still haven't figured out the timing for downshifting right. For example, from going from 40-0 I usually just throw the car into nuetral and just come to a stop. But on a highway, I find it hard to determine which gear I should be in when going certain speeds/rpms... I always seem to slow the car down hard when downshifting.

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I was still very nervous about starting on hills. I had just gotten a good instructional lesson from my buddy and was much better at starting. Since my car has a lot of torque and the gears are so close, I was starting in 2nd since my brain was having trouble with me slipping the clutch (I had it in my head that it was an on/off process - no no no ). Well I come up on this exit ramp and am waiting to turn left, of course at a REALLY steep hill just at the stop light where they were working on the roads, so that 10 feet in front of the light was a steep drop down. What happens? Some jagoff in an SUV climbs up my ass sitting at the light. I'm feeling nervous, the light goes green, I'm still in 2nd, and I rev the SH!T out of it in 2nd gear on a steep hill. I must have hit 4000-5000rpm, slipping the clutch in 2nd gear, no joke. We got to our destination a few miles down the road and the air STUNK of burnt clutch. Jesus it was bad. She's still doing well to this day, getting close to 10K miles and nearly a year of ownership.

Heh I know what that's like... the smell that is. I was going up a hill and I think I was shifting from 2nd to 3rd in my Talon (TSi AWD, so it had a bit of power to boot) and I think I forgot to ease up on the accelerator. Either that or I dumped the clutch and that was quite a balls-to-the-wall launch there. After reaching my destination, you could still smell the launch.

I'm still a bit curious as to what caused my Talon's clutch disc to glaze over (causing around 90% slippage). I don't recall ever riding the clutch or slipping the clutch much after I got better at driving it. Hmm maybe I did but didn't realize it... who knows!

All I know is, after playing with the manumatic mode in my car, it makes me want to go out and buy some old RWD manual car... something like a 240SX but without the price increase from being popular.

A : Talons/Eclipses/Lasers were manufactured with all the quality of a vending-machine plastic necklace.

A friend of mine has a TSi. Great car until it got towed and the tow truck driver didnt realize it was an AWD car. I forgot what got damaged but my friend got rid of the car soon after.

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: M2008S
im 17 and ive taught all my friends stickshift and really the key is practice. feather the gas.. dont just push it down and let the clutch up.. lightly push and let off a hair. start to let out the clutch as you feather the gas and etc. every time you shift you have to sort of get the engine rpms to meet the transmission equally. dont worry about something happening. for in city driving dont run out the gears so much.. shift around 3 grand. saves gas too. dont concentrate really really hard.. just go with it. relax. the hardest part is starting out from a stop or even harder on a hill...

whatever you do... do NOT ride the clutch as you drive. meaning if youre going in gear you dont think and leave your foot slightly pushing the clutch. that is bad. also, you can slow down in gear! dont think to slow down even a few mph you have to push the clutch in. as for stopping just put it in neutral and use brakes for now... until you get used to driving then you can downshift to slow yourself. each car is different... so if youre going about 25mph and its a 5 speed try cruising in 3rd gear to maintain the speed... normally at about 50-55 go to 5th to cruise. one of the main things people want to do is run out the gears and you dont have to.


by the way... i stole my dads truck when i was 13 years old, stick shift ford ranger. almost wrecked but it was fun as hell. also, none of my friends need to replace their clutches and its been more than a year. (friends cars are; 1995 ford f150, 1998 ford escort zx2, 1999 mustang SVT cobra, mitsu evo, 1984 toyota tiny truck)

just dont beat on it till you know what youre doing... also DONT DOG IT its brand new you have to be like grandma to break in the motor for a few thousand imles...

I've actually been using 3k rpms as my "shift point." Usually i'll gas just a bit past 3000 and be in the next gear as the needle passes the 3000 point. I finally realize the point of a tach...lol

I have not yet ridden the clutch pedal. As soon as I shift, my foot leaves that area. I've burned that into my brain already.

Thanks for advice, I am gonna grandma it for a little while. I usually don't drive liek a maniac, but I like to know I can.

 

[fbrdphreak]

You need to stab the throttle more. Revmatching for downshifts:

1) Clutch
2) Stab throttle - you will figure out the proper amount as you get used to it
3) Bring the clutch more slowly than usual
----->If you didn't raise the RPM's enough, the clutch will begin to grab and you bring it up slower - this will match the speed
----->If you matched properly, you can drop the clutch quickly and be in gear.
----->If you over-revved to match speed, just bring the clutch up at a steady pace and it will match speed without much drama.

So for instance: you're cruising in 5th at 60mph, at say 2500rpm. You want to downshift to 4th. Let's say 4th gear @ 60mph = 3500rpm. Clutch in, stab throttle to 3500rpm while shifting to 4th, clutch out. I say stab throttle because that's what you do: you don't put your foot down on the throttle and wait for the revs to get to the right speed. Technically that will work, but "stabbing" will let you be faster and smoother. You just have to get used to how your car responds to stabbing. Just come up a little slower than usual on the clutch to avoid jolting until you get used to how to rev match.

My wife's Accord needs more of a strong stab than my GTO to rev match. Both have electronic throttle control (i.e. drive by wire), but hers is just calibrated differently.

You'll get it - practice, practice, practice.

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
chip that thing ASAP! worth every penny.

as well, very nice choice on the ferenheit ... I test drove one and loved the nice new smoooooth clutch. dont break it

btw those germans built quality clutches..my old 96 jetta vr6 had 180k on it, original clutch/tranny with noooo slipping on it.

my 01 jetta 1.8t now has 120k on it and the clutch still works like a dream, even after testing that ferenheit ... it was just as smooth. just follow the maint. book and that thing should last forever (**)

Thanks! No chipping yet till ~20000 or so miles. Gonna keep it stock till I can break it in a bit. Hell, I didn't even put rims on my Civic till I hit 12000 miles.

I LOVE the build of the car. Seriously, just closing the door on the car seems solid. When I closed the doors on my Civic, I could hear windows shaking, door rattling and it just crashed closed. The Jetta has a nice "thud" when it closes.

I am going to look through the manual this weekend. :light:

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
You need to stab the throttle more. Revmatching for downshifts:

1) Clutch
2) Stab throttle - you will figure out the proper amount as you get used to it
3) Bring the clutch more slowly than usual
----->If you didn't raise the RPM's enough, the clutch will begin to grab and you bring it up slower - this will match the speed
----->If you matched properly, you can drop the clutch quickly and be in gear.
----->If you over-revved to match speed, just bring the clutch up at a steady pace and it will match speed without much drama.

So for instance: you're cruising in 5th at 60mph, at say 2500rpm. You want to downshift to 4th. Let's say 4th gear @ 60mph = 3500rpm. Clutch in, stab throttle to 3500rpm while shifting to 4th, clutch out. I say stab throttle because that's what you do: you don't put your foot down on the throttle and wait for the revs to get to the right speed. Technically that will work, but "stabbing" will let you be faster and smoother. You just have to get used to how your car responds to stabbing. Just come up a little slower than usual on the clutch to avoid jolting until you get used to how to rev match.

My wife's Accord needs more of a strong stab than my GTO to rev match. Both have electronic throttle control (i.e. drive by wire), but hers is just calibrated differently.

You'll get it - practice, practice, practice.

I swear I am going to print this...No one can exactly explain the downshifts to me, but you made it somewhat clear. I believe my car is of the drive-by-wire type, but I have to confirm. I've kinda been doing something similar to upshift, but have been downshifting "blindly" without care for RPM. I guess this is why the car jolts slower when I put it into a lower gear. (I guess I was thinking that revving higher would speed up the car...)

 

[fbrdphreak]

Per this page (http://www.hyattautomotivegrou...-volkswagen-jetta.htm), here are your gear ratios and then I calculated top spead in each gear:

Final drive: 3.99
Wheels/tires: 225/45/17

1 | 3.36
2 | 2.09
3 | 1.47
4 | 1.10
5 | 1.11
6 | 0.93

http://supplespub.com/images/gto_jetta_gears.jpg

Looking at that chart, you can see where your RPM's are in different gears at different speeds. So if you're in 6th @ ~70mph & ~3500rpm, and want to drop to 4th to get moving, you need to rev to a hair over 4000rpm when switching to 4th. Your gears are spaced pretty closely, especially 4th-6th.

Comparatively, my GTO's gears require a bit more substantial RPM jump. 6th gear @ 70mph = 1800rpm. Downshifting to 4th gear @ 70mph = 2650rpm. Going to 3rd gear, which is the optimal gear for max acceleration @ 70mph, means revving to 4550rpm. For you, third gear @ 70mph = 5450rpm - man that's a big drop from 3rd to 4th. Why they left such a huge gap from 3rd to 4th, and then made 4th & 5th nearly identical I don't know. I'm no auto engineer, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Anyway, if you want to play with gear ratios I put the Excel file up for grabs. I got it from someone else, don't remember where, so I'm not taking credit for it It was made for people with Tremec T-XX transmissions, but you just input your individual gear ratios at top and then the final drive ratio in the gray box, along with your tire/wheel sizes below the table, and it should be the same for any tramission. (Note: there are three calculation tables. One for a 5-speed and two for 6-speeds, just FYI).

http://supplespub.com/images/ratios_jetta_v_gto.xls

Hope this helps

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: amdhunter
3) Seems to me that letting my foot off the clutch is the best thing to do. I might need to concentrate on this more, since I've already made it a habit to clutch in at stoplights.

Unless you have a defective throwout bearing, it should last the entire life of the clutch. Just leave the car in 1st and press the clutch pedal to the floor. Don't worry about changing your habit. Worrying about wearing the throwout bearing by doing this is like worrying going around a corner will wear out the bearings in your steering column. Just plain ridiculous.

The only times I've heard of someone wearing out a throwout bearing, the root cause has always been either poor installation, a lack of proper lubrication during installation, a defective part, or the idiot changed the clutch without replacing the bearing (the throwout bearing is designed to be replaced when you replace the clutch). The people who claim that leaving the clutch pedal depressed at a stop light will wear out the throwout bearing don't know what they're talking about or they think you're driving a Peterbilt.

I never put my car in neutral at a light. Never. It's always first gear with the clutch pedal to the floor. I have yet to encounter problems with a throwout bearing because of this. The last one was 100% good when I replaced it along with my clutch at ~150,000 miles.

ZV