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I am withholding my vote in 2008.

Pyrokinetic

Senior member
Dec 4, 2005
296
0
0
I am going to go on a bit of a rant here, but I despise both Republicans & Democrats. Neither party has the willpower or political fortitude to address our national debt. I am not talking just about reducing deficits, but actually coming up with a plan to pay off our national debt. All the candidates really seem to care about is universal health care, the war, and saving social security. All of that may become very, very trivial if this nation defaults on our extra-ordinary debt.

I think people should really pay attention to David Walker, Comptroller of the United States and head of the General Accounting Office (GAO). He has called our national accounting as "unsustainable" and even has a presentation that states either we cut federal spending by 60 percent by 2040 (yeah, over any Democrat's dead body first) or raising federal taxes two times the current level (Republicans would burn in hell first).

I think his projections are optimistic. We will never make it to 2040. A graph of the growth of our national debt http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html shows that our debt has doubled roughly once a decade since 1981. 1981 - $1T; 1986 - $2T; 1992 - $4T; 2006 - $8T. We are at $9 Trillion now and have already started up the exponential growth curve.

The point I want to make is that it is not a question of if this nation will default, but when. At that time any of the issues now being debated won't amount to a pile of sh-t, pardon the phrase. The only thing keeping us afloat now is "faith" in the dubious creditworthiness of this nation. All it will take now is some global financial crisis to drive our foreign creditors to euros -- and Mortimer Zuckerman of US News & World Report has gone on the record saying that the current mortgage crisis of 2007 is nothing to what is coming in 2008: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/o...cles/070805/13edit.htm

I just hope it happens while the baby-boom generation is still alive and kicking. Their self-indulgent generation needs to feel it and feel it hard. Rape your grandkids of a future cause you want it all and die while the sun is still shining? Up yours. I hope they cancel every pension of every politician who presides over the default and everyone previous to them. So yeah, go ahead -- vote yourself another pay raise. In that day the baby-boomers will stand aside to a new generation -- a generation who will not play the two-party fools dance.

Cynical? Yeah, I am an X-Gen after all. Feel free to comment.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
930
126
Ron Paul will NOT be this country's next president, but will sail off into the sunset with his untold millions, patting himself on the back for a scam well pulled. ;)
 

brokendolly

Banned
Jan 18, 2005
112
0
0
Kinda silly to blame older folks, it is the young peoples responsibility to bring change and fight back at the status quo.

Just about every generation before did. So what has this one done?

No counterculture anymore, no organization, no nothing but hipsters sucking up mainstream culture the adults have force fed you.

Kids seem mostly into getting into debt asap and moving off to the 'burbs to work, have 2.5 children get old and die.

It is no wonder American music is such shit nowadays.

No adventure of being young, no fighting spirit, nada.

Just a race to be old and conform + sell out.
 

Pyrokinetic

Senior member
Dec 4, 2005
296
0
0
Originally posted by: brokendolly
Kinda silly to blame older folks, it is the young peoples responsibility to bring change and fight back at the status quo.

Just about every generation before did. So what has this one done?

Oh, we are to clean up the 9 Trillion dollar mess AND fund Medicare? Don't lecture me what my responsibility is. I actually would like to retire someday, however, that now may not be possible given the burden previous generations have heaped upon us and the Millennials. Why not blame the older folks? We were not in office spending like there was no tomorrow. What ever happened to the maxim of "clean up your own mess?"

So go "tune out" in your glorious retirement. We'll fix what you broke --not that we'll have much choice.
 

brokendolly

Banned
Jan 18, 2005
112
0
0
If you want change MAKE IT, the youth have the power as countless fed up young generations previous to yours have shown.

In defense of older folks (although I would be considered a genx myself -barely as the youth nowadays bore the hell out of me) at least the baby boomers got off their ass and did something (stopped a war/civil rights etc.) BEFORE they turned into self centered and apathetic.

This generation will be mainly known for letting a unjust war happen on their watch while they sat on their asses and the sad thing is still it is mainly baby boomers you see out there still fighting back.

Please, get a life, go outside, hang out with friends, start a scene when something about the system pisses you off, get into authoritys face and tell them no more.

You know, something the youth should be doing instead of worrying about investments and economics and other boring shit like that you are going to have a lifetime of anyhow.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
What happened to the deficit under the last democratic president? What happened under the republicans' 3 terms before him and 2 terms after?
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
930
126
Originally posted by: brokendolly
If you want change MAKE IT, the youth have the power as countless fed up young generations previous to yours have shown.

Oh really? Have you seen the youth where I live? (Sacramento)

The pierced and tattoed people, who otherwise have good educations, can barely get a job in Denny's.



 

brokendolly

Banned
Jan 18, 2005
112
0
0
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: brokendolly
If you want change MAKE IT, the youth have the power as countless fed up young generations previous to yours have shown.

Oh really? Have you seen the youth where I live? (Sacramento)

The pierced and tattoed people, who otherwise have good educations, can barely get a job in Denny's.

Are you agreeing or mistakenly making my point for me? Not getting you here.
 

Pyrokinetic

Senior member
Dec 4, 2005
296
0
0
Originally posted by: brokendolly
If you want change MAKE IT, the youth have the power as countless fed up young generations previous to yours have shown.

In defense of older folks (although I would be considered a genx myself -barely as the youth nowadays bore the hell out of me) at least the baby boomers got off their ass and did something (stopped a war/civil rights etc.) BEFORE they turned into self centered and apathetic.

This generation will be mainly known for letting a unjust war happen on their watch while they sat on their asses and the sad thing is still it is mainly baby boomers you see out there still fighting back.

Please, get a life, go outside, hang out with friends, start a scene when something about the system pisses you off, get into authoritys face and tell them no more.

You know, something the youth should be doing.


You are right of course, but what part of the parent's life did the children learn from? The action or the apathy? You tell me. Unjust war? Of course. But who drives the gas-hogging SUVs? People hate the war but they LOVE cheap fuel. But I digress... finger pointing only serves as a reminder that three of your own fingers are still pointing back at you. Maybe I should run for office...but slashing federal expenditures while promoting higher tax rates is a platform that probably won't be very popular.

 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
930
126
Originally posted by: brokendolly
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: brokendolly
If you want change MAKE IT, the youth have the power as countless fed up young generations previous to yours have shown.

Oh really? Have you seen the youth where I live? (Sacramento)

The pierced and tattoed people, who otherwise have good educations, can barely get a job in Denny's.

Are you agreeing or mistakenly making my point for me? Not getting you here.


Agreeing.
 

Pyrokinetic

Senior member
Dec 4, 2005
296
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
What happened to the deficit under the last democratic president? What happened under the republicans' 3 terms before him and 2 terms after?

Thats PROJECTED deficit, which was built on some rather optimistic numbers. The debt still piled up. But yes, the Republicans are worse in this regard. Still will not vote -- I will not vote for the "lesser evil".
 

brokendolly

Banned
Jan 18, 2005
112
0
0
Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
Originally posted by: brokendolly
If you want change MAKE IT, the youth have the power as countless fed up young generations previous to yours have shown.

In defense of older folks (although I would be considered a genx myself -barely as the youth nowadays bore the hell out of me) at least the baby boomers got off their ass and did something (stopped a war/civil rights etc.) BEFORE they turned into self centered and apathetic.

This generation will be mainly known for letting a unjust war happen on their watch while they sat on their asses and the sad thing is still it is mainly baby boomers you see out there still fighting back.

Please, get a life, go outside, hang out with friends, start a scene when something about the system pisses you off, get into authoritys face and tell them no more.

You know, something the youth should be doing.


You are right of course, but what part of the parent's life did the children learn from? The action or the apathy? You tell me. Unjust war? Of course. But who drives the gas-hogging SUVs? People hate the war but they LOVE cheap fuel. But I digress... finger pointing only serves as a reminder that three of your own fingers are still pointing back at you. Maybe I should run for office...but slashing federal expenditures is a platform that probably won't be very popular.

I think you are not as apathetic as you think, maybe you should take that spark of youthful anger and make something useful of it, matter of fact you should. Us older folks who are still kicking back at the pricks depend on the youth to take up the fight you know.

Also, not all of us were pleased to watch America turn into a corporate consumerist shithole the hippies/boomers let it become once they got a few pats on the back.

And saying just because your parents were boring plastic cultureless/mindless drones it gives you guys a free pass is what they called a "cop-out" back in the day.

Give me a break, the children of the 50's and 60's came from a horribly backwards society of racism, sexism, alcoholism, abuse, church all in peoples affairs still etc.

You all do not even have the excuse of heroin epidemics that killed off the beatnik/digger/hippie/punk subcultures and heros.

Matter of fact, what heros have you all created to pass on the torch? none.
All the great minds that fought back and spoke truth to power over the years are dying of old age.

Really I have no answer that I know that would work, not anything I have not banged my head against the walls for years trying to figure out myself.
Barring large influxes of cash -which is about the only thing America seems to respect anymore as far as our culture.

I am not bashing young folks, I am freaking BEGGING you all to get off your asses and kick some life into this dull, souless and in the long run yes, unsutaniable society we have become.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
WILL?

they did a long time ago, just neither side agrees as who to blame or how.

bankrupt us monetarily and of ideas
 

Pyrokinetic

Senior member
Dec 4, 2005
296
0
0
Quote from brokendolly: "I think you are not as apathetic as you think"

--Thank you, just as frustrated as you I guess.

Quote from brokendolly: "Matter of fact, what heros have you all created to pass on the torch? none. "

--Not yet anyway, need that opportunistic historic moment, which I fear will come after the financial train has passed over the cliff. Pray that we will have the sense to be level-headed when people are finally willing to listen.
 

brokendolly

Banned
Jan 18, 2005
112
0
0
Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic

--Not yet anyway, need that opportunistic historic moment



?There is a time when the operation of the machine
becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that
you can?t take part; and you?ve got to put your bodies
upon the gears and wheels, upon the levers, upon all the
apparatus and you?ve got to make it stop?



This time will never be handed to you, the great people throughout history took the status quo and made their own history.

The rest of us are along for the ride, and you would be surprised how many fed up passengers there are waiting, there always are.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I like your fire.

A doubling of debt every 10 years isn't great, but I think that the US still has less debt based on GDP than a great many industrial nations.

I honestly don't know exactly what it means. I don't know how good a non-debt would be or where the money even comes from or whether the US dollar now sucking ass is a net bad or good. I consider myself relatively informed, far more than the rabble, yet this is an area I haven't studied.

So, if I don't really know what it means (I am inclined to think it's not good), sorry to say you can't expect anything good from the general populous, which is even less informed as a whole than I am. Sorry :(

I do think both parties are sh*t. However, they are not doing a bad job of giving the people what they want. I think your anger should be really aimed at the American people, not the parties they have formed. The american people don't care about debt, don't care about increased social care, lean accountable government with repercussions for a job badly done and so they continue to vote in mediocrity.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I have to somewhat agree with your notion if not your methods. With all the moronic bickering that goes on around here about the dumbest little quibbles, it's pretty obvious why America ends up with such worthless politicians. Because they are what you actually want and likely deserve. I could count on one hand the number of people here who wouldn't turn from a foaming-at-the-mouth attacker of the "other" side into a passionate defender of the same acts if his own side committed them.
 

saahmed

Golden Member
Oct 5, 2005
1,388
1
0
Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I am going to go on a bit of a rant here, but I despise both Republicans & Democrats. Neither party has the willpower or political fortitude to address our national debt. I am not talking just about reducing deficits, but actually coming up with a plan to pay off our national debt. All the candidates really seem to care about is universal health care, the war, and saving social security. All of that may become very, very trivial if this nation defaults on our extra-ordinary debt.

Have you not heard about Ron Paul? He is the only candidate talking about this. I haven't been on these forums in a while, and admittedly I came back to see what the word on here was about Ron Paul. So far I have just seen a lot of bashing about his support being small and all of them being spammers. Did you guys take a look at the fundraising numbers, and have you seen his rallies in NH, TN, and the U of M, they were bigger than any other Republican candidates. But he is talking about cutting our spending overseas. We have troops in 130 countries, and its simply a waste of money. And he talks about cutting many of the unnecessary departments in our federal government. He talks about the out of control inflation and the fact that we keep on simply printing money to pay for things. I urge you to look into him. Here is just a little of his talk about the monetary system: http://youtube.com/watch?v=opl2m0vMJ0A I urge you to look into him, because he definitely talks about how our country is going to default on all these debts, and he has plans to fix this problem.

BTW, I am not a Ron Paul spammer, so all of you who want to jump on me and label me as such, just shut up and learn things.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic
I am going to go on a bit of a rant here, but I despise both Republicans & Democrats. Neither party has the willpower or political fortitude to address our national debt. I am not talking just about reducing deficits, but actually coming up with a plan to pay off our national debt. All the candidates really seem to care about is universal health care, the war, and saving social security. All of that may become very, very trivial if this nation defaults on our extra-ordinary debt.

I think people should really pay attention to David Walker, Comptroller of the United States and head of the General Accounting Office (GAO). He has called our national accounting as "unsustainable" and even has a presentation that states either we cut federal spending by 60 percent by 2040 (yeah, over any Democrat's dead body first) or raising federal taxes two times the current level (Republicans would burn in hell first).

I think his projections are optimistic. We will never make it to 2040. A graph of the growth of our national debt http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html shows that our debt has doubled roughly once a decade since 1981. 1981 - $1T; 1986 - $2T; 1992 - $4T; 2006 - $8T. We are at $9 Trillion now and have already started up the exponential growth curve.

The point I want to make is that it is not a question of if this nation will default, but when. At that time any of the issues now being debated won't amount to a pile of sh-t, pardon the phrase. The only thing keeping us afloat now is "faith" in the dubious creditworthiness of this nation. All it will take now is some global financial crisis to drive our foreign creditors to euros -- and Mortimer Zuckerman of US News & World Report has gone on the record saying that the current mortgage crisis of 2007 is nothing to what is coming in 2008: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/o...cles/070805/13edit.htm

I just hope it happens while the baby-boom generation is still alive and kicking. Their self-indulgent generation needs to feel it and feel it hard. Rape your grandkids of a future cause you want it all and die while the sun is still shining? Up yours. I hope they cancel every pension of every politician who presides over the default and everyone previous to them. So yeah, go ahead -- vote yourself another pay raise. In that day the baby-boomers will stand aside to a new generation -- a generation who will not play the two-party fools dance.

Cynical? Yeah, I am an X-Gen after all. Feel free to comment.

So withholding your vote help how? At least Bill Clinton had the track record of balancing the budget, and according to Allan Greenspan, talked to him weekly and take fiscal responsibility seriously. Yeah I know Hilary Clinton so far only talked about more spending on her programs, but with her husband being her #1 adviser and her husband's network of people who knows how to run a government, I'd say she deserve a shot at the very least.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,747
6,762
126
Oh me oh my we can't impeach Bush. We don't have enough votes. We can't dive our cars out on the highway and park like the French do when they want to shut down the country. We can't muster the 2/3rds majority. Go back to sleep, there is no hope. Go buy something and suck your ear.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
Of course that same generation that put us into such debt also destroyed the education system to the point that 66% of the US population (at the least) won't have the brains to observe and address the problems you mentioned.

Yep, this nation is dying...fast.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: Pyrokinetic

Cynical? Yeah, I am an X-Gen after all. Feel free to comment.

You are too young to be so pessimistic. All politics is local. Stop crying, *Nancy*, and get yourself and your friends involved.

You will make a difference.