I am truly sorry Intel fans and even more so if you own stock!!!!!

[Packet]

I couldn't agree with you more divinemartyr,
my thoughts exactly

unfortunetly in my eyes its not even a processor only issue, it seams like people have the same argument over video cards, computer games, which speakers are better...

If you bought an intel and your happy, good job
if you bought an amd and your happy, good job

Why do people feel they have to force their opinions on others?

 

[Lupine2]

The p3 and the CII are essentally the same chip, except for the fact that the CII has had some of its L2 disable, and its latency set higher.

The CeleronA and the PII were about the same speed because even though the CeleronA had 1/4th the cache, it was twice as fast, and it made up for it. The PIII has more cache, and its faster...which means that especally in heavy processing, the PII whips it.

Now the duron and the thunderbird are COMPLETLEY different cores, which means the duron is consideribly cheaper for AMD to produce (hence much lower prices)

 

[lsd]

<< even more so if you own stock!!!!! >>


You're not an AMD stock holder I see..

 

[Hamburgerpimp]

Aww hell, it gets even worse!!

http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20001227S0008

 

[pen^2]

i have to remind you all sharkmeat is the dude that advocated Maximum Bullshiit article (prior to their 'correction') stating celerons are better deal and overclock better compared to durons. pls dont take him or his comments seriously, we all gave up on him in that thread. just trying to refresh your memories

 

[chiwawa626]

My family has an Athlon computer, but owns intel stock.....funny....

 

[Vegito]

Jag are own by ford.. right ? Last I check.. anyway I like my porsche more than my honda accord... being +1 hp more on the porsche, and more fun to drive. Dodge viper coming soon.. heheh..

anyway..

c2 vs p3

similar but still not the same.

one does dual, the other doesn't.

Derived from the same core.. yes.. but still, to say it's the same when it's not...

 

[kami]

Ack, why do some of you get so personal with these issues? Bunch of fscking children. divinemartyr is right...

My opinion is that the P4 was a big mistake and they should have kept their next chip in the lab longer and in the meantime why not introduce a new version or faster version of the P3. A die size shrink or anything, but the P4 is just way too flawed and they should've spent more time on it. I also can't believe I once owned a Celeron-2...that chip is worthless and not worth its money at all when you have things like the Duron floating around.
However, I just upgraded to a P3-700 and overclocked it to 980mhz. Why? Well, I didn't exactly have the money to buy a new motherboard, new RAM, and a AMD-approved power supply to go along with a new AMD CPU. So that is the downside of going the AMD route and for people like me it would have been more money to buy a Tbird. The P3 is a great chip but it's way too expensive.

 

[Buzzaloo]

ha! guess what?! I have an Intel machine, but I owned AMD's stock!

 

[odog]

yeah the cache design is a little weird on the P4... 8k L1(yes 8 kilobytes) 256k L2 and no L3... the original plan was 64k L1 512k L2 and 1MB L3...


this is from memory... but should be pretty close..(i'm gonna go verify it now)

 

[Doomguy]

Too many damn 14 year old amd zealots at AT...

 

[Midnight Rambler]

Hehe ... good one Doomguy.

 

[DABANSHEE]

All a Celeron is, is a PIII with the multiplyer reset to match the 66mhz FSB &amp; half the cache disabled (yes if you pull a Celeron apart, it has exactly the same amount of cache as a PIII, that's why it has the same transister count).

Consequently when the chips are tested, any that have faulty cache transisters/traces, have half their cache disabled &amp; are re-classified as Celerons. But this doesnt make up for supply/demand mismatches, so half the time good PIII's are re-binned as Celerons &amp; just have half their cache switched off.

 

[DABANSHEE]

BTW, this bloke codes his emulators &amp; other software using machine language, so I think he knows what talking about, as far as coding for a CPU is concerned, compared with the C+ hacks, VB boys &amp; Perl script kiddies here ar Anandtech.

 

[Windogg]

Too many yound whippersnappers start on computers and think they know it all. All new processor families start off with performance that is on par with the current generation of chips.

Anyone else remember the 486SX-25? Cost a helluva lot more than an equivilant 386DX-40 for the same performance. back then there were people screaming, &quot;Why are you so stupid? You can buy a 386 for less!!!&quot; Then the 486 matured and increased in speed. It introduced such concepts as the multiplier etc..

Lo and behold the old Pentium Classic 60Mhz came out. People called it &quot;garbage&quot; because it was supposidly damaged chips that could make 66Mhz. &quot;Get a 486DX4-100!!! for the same performance&quot; the 486DX4-100 was basically a clock tripled 486 and it did run damn well.

So what happened? The Pentium core began to mature and soon we had speeds all the way up to 233Mhz. Of course the Pentium Pro chip came on the market and the same people came out, &quot;What are you crazy? You can get a Pentium w/ MMX for less and more performance!!!&quot; Then the core developed into what we now know as the Pentium II/III/Celeron/Coppermine series of CPUs.

Of course we now have the P4. Funny how I hear the same shortsighted commentary. Hate to tell people this but the Pentium IV will mature. When it does it will offer excellent performance despite the naysayers. Hate Intel, Rambus, whatever but don't deny that we will see HUGE performance gains.

I can't wait for the P4's successor to debut because I betcha a millions dollars the same moron will come out with, &quot;LOOK AT THIS CRAP!!! I can get a P4 for less!!!&quot;

Windogg

 

[seewhy]

Well, AMD zealots or not, you have to be blind to say Intel is as good as it once was. I used to remember that buying Intel means pretty much gauranteed quality, the only problem I remembered was that floating point calculation that led to the recall of Pentium chip, and the problem was fairly minor. But now, what happened?? Still remember the paper launch of their processors? Forcing us to choose either RDRAM or non-intel chipset until their 815i chipset?? Problem with translator hub?? 1.13 Gig recall?? P4 chipset recall?? and that's all in the past year!!

The article shows that P4 is really designed based on marketing/business decisioin, striped of good engineering designs. It is not the first time you heard that P4 is not as good as it should be because of all the other BS involved. Hey, Intel got to save face in a GigaHz race right? so they come up with a chip that excel in speed but not much else, it cannot even support SMP, now that is a sin!! But seriously, I think P4 could be much better if Intel let the engineers do thier thing and not worry too much about bring it out to market that quickly.

That is just sad, we consumer deserve better thing then what those marketing idots at intel want us to have!!

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Processors keep getting faster and faster, and that's a good thing, however we need to speed up the other componenets. For example, the HARDDRIVE. The biggest bottleneck in the computer and it won't ever be fast enough until ssd drives become affordable and available to consumers. Also, memory bandwith is another area that is slowing us down.

 

[Rectalfier]

The pentium4 will mature, it will have to for Intel's sake. As for now, the pentium4 is overpriced and it is a poor performer.

Intel wanted to be on top in the megahurtz war, they kept pushing up the speed of the P3 even when they couldn't supply the demand. They should have taken it slow and let AMD linger at one speed above them. This would have given them time to properly develop the P4. When they realized that they couldn't push the P!!! any higher, they panicked and released the P4 in a castrated state.

I hope the P4 gets fixed when it goes to 0.13 microns, otherwise it will still be a piece of crap.

 

[AmdEmAll]

Now when the hell is AMD stock gonna go up!!!!!!!!

 

[Degenerate]

You know what? That was full of bs's. The guy who wrote it dosent understand what he is mouthin about. actually he probably got paid by Amd or something.


MISTAKE #1 - Small L1 data cache - I couldn't believe it myself when I first saw the results, but Intel's own statements confirm it. The Pentium 4 has a grossly under-sized 8K L1 data cache. That was the size of the L1 cache back in the 486, more than TEN YEARS AGO. Some idiots never learn. The L1 cache is the most important block of memory in the whole computer.

Yeah thats right, the most important memory, but intel reduced it for slower latency.



oh one more thing, I can reaaallyyyy see the diffence between Ms word loading on a P4 1.5 and a Athlon 1.2Ghz.... i got fast eyes, very fast

 

[Shazam]

<< Yeah thats right, the most important memory, but intel reduced it for slower latency. >>

Uhh, that's like shooting yourself in the foot twice. Do you mean less latency?

Anyhoo, 8K of L1 cache is stupid.

Just about everything he wrote is correct.

 

[Degenerate]

yeah i meant that.....

lets see what the 0.13 version can do..

 

[Roguetech]

Ok, I'm lost... What's the big deal? Pentium 4 based on Pentium 3? Duh! According to the books I've read, the 8008 was based on the 4004, and the 8080 was based on the 8008, etc... For Intel to come up with an entirely new core for a new chip would be a phenominial investment of both time and money, and assuming they did, the Athlon Shuttlecraft or some crap (5 or 10 years hence) would have total market share.

Intel a bunch of money-grubbers?? Nahhh!!!! I don't buy it. They're in various partnerships with Microsoft, and we all know they're completely straight and honest with the public! But, AMD is in business for a reason too, and it ain't to use up the global surplus in sand!

Intel more expensive than AMD? So what? Charmin is more expensive than my grocery store brand, ButtRub. But Intel has name brand recognition with the general public, and is still considered the &quot;safe&quot; choice. (And you can bet your ass &quot;we&quot; aren't the general public... Look at Windows and tell me if it was made with the power-user in mind.)

Intel more marketing than engineering? The first chip Intel marketed for the power-user crowd was the 8080. It flopped. People didn't realize that it was ahead of it's time, so they crippled it, came out the 8088, and sold 'em faster than hot cakes. Intel learned that its not about engineering, its about marketing.

Ford better than Chevy? Maybe. I like my 88 Cougar, but Ford is known to be rather unreliable. But, rednecks would be argueing about trucks (or true rednecks about Ford vs. John Deere), so Jaguar is out (also, I might note, known for its unrealiability)!

Would I buy Intel stock? Hell, no! AMD is gaining with each chip. Why would I jump on a sinking ship?!

 

[Dulanic]

<< Dulanic:

Mature and finish fourth grade? That's a little harsh, chastizing someone over their 'processor' choice. >>



I wasnt talking about processor choice... I was talking about his just childish attitude, he made no sense what so ever with his post. And I got totally lost on his dumb Burger King comment... I thought it was rather childish.

 

[BigLance]

Chevy is BETTER, I agree with you Whitedog !

I still kinda believe in &quot;you get what you pay for&quot; to a certain point. I'm not saying Intel is better because they are more expensive, but I do believe there are some good things about Intel chips that come with the extra cost.

Give Pentium 4 some time, it will come around and become a good chip eventually...