I am Antifa but what they did in Durham was wrong

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apokalipse

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2005
18
3
81
USSR was communist too, but when they were fighting fascists, even under Stalin, the US put that aside and supported them. That's how important fighting fascism is for America. You don't have to like Antifa politics to support their kicking neonazi butt.
And then the cold war happened. The only reason an actual war didn't happen with the USSR is because both sides had enough nukes pointed at each other to destroy all of human civilisation.
Whereas nukes only became a thing at the very end of WWII, and two nukes are what ended it.

But even then, during the time of the USSR, many millions were killed by the famine and oppression it caused.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Kicking Nazi ass was always priority number one. Japan even bombed the US, when the Nazis haven't attacked us yet, and we kicked Nazi ass first.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
You must have been in a perpetual state of heartbreak when the Soviet Bloc collapsed! All those Lenins and Stalins being toppled and broken up! Oh the humanity! Did you march against the Iraq war out of concern for all the historical artifacts that were doomed to destruction by that invasion, incidentally (not even mentioning the Saddam statue this time - that war led to a vastly greater level of destruction of art and history than a few crap statues)

The guys you are, oddly, choosing to erase from this argument are the ones with the track record for burning books, incidentally.

Oddly enough I find Communist Soviet-era Art quite interesting. I do wish a lot of these things still existed because its a powerful way to reflect on the past. Lenin is one of those morphing figures that makes him larger then life. Seeing huge statues of his likeness reflects the powerful influence he had. Tearing the statues down in my opinion is a shortsighted and misguided.

Thankfully most of us want to preserve...but we are a passive lot that will get run over by the ISIS style explode anything that triggers me mentality.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
Lol, of course they are.



Well, if you're a history enthusiast you may enjoy the some of the explainers that came out in the last few days on why these statues are, from an artistic or historical perspective, worthless. Don't worry though, if you're that concerned you can have your very own mass produced racism statue for about $500.

From https://qz.com/1054062/statues-of-c...outh-were-cheaply-mass-produced-in-the-north/

A large share of Confederate statues are of nameless, generic soldiers, like the one the protesters took down in Durham. Towns erected them in the early 20th century, decades after the Civil War, because their Confederate mythologies helped to justify Jim Crow laws in the South that oppressed black citizens, Taber Andrew Bain, a librarian at Virginia Commonwealth University, pointed out on Twitter.

The statues are often called the “Silent Sentinel,” “Single Soldier,” or something similar, and depict a regular soldier in Confederate uniform staring solemnly into the distance, at ease, with feet spread—a stance called “parade rest,” according to art historian Lola Arellano-Fryer, who wrote about the statues for Hyperallergic. The statutes proliferated specifically because they were cheap.

To sculpt a statue in marble would have been time-consuming and prohibitively expensive for small towns in the early 1900s. But northern foundries that worked in cast bronze or zinc could churn them out quickly and sell them at much lower costs.

One of the leading manufacturers was the Monumental Bronze Company of Bridgeport, Connecticut, which specialized in a cast zinc it called “white bronze” (a light gray or pale blue color). In 2015, the Associated Press dug into the company's history: It sold life-size statues for just $450 and larger eight-and-a-half foot versions for $750. Commissioning marble or granite statues, meanwhile, would have cost tens of thousands of dollars.

“It’s like going to Wal-Mart,” Timothy S. Sedore, who wrote An Illustrated Guide to Virginia’s Confederate Monuments, told the news wire. “It’s less expensive.”

Sarah Beetham, an art historian at the University of Delaware and an expert on soldier monuments, explained to the AP that as many as half of these citizen-solider statues were in the “Silent Sentinel” style. Southern citizens felt personally connected to them; they commemorated all Confederate soldiers, including their family members who may have fought for the Confederacy.

Because these mass-produced statues were put up on the cheap, they may not have been firmly anchored to their pedestals, making them easy to pull down. That makes them an attractive target for protesters who want to see them, and all they represent, removed.


If a community decided to throw up a $10 plaster penis and call it art, that is their choice. Coming in years or decades later to tear it down and decide its no longer art or significant is extremely dangerous. Interpretation can change, that is fluid.

So you can look at it and hate it or love it in my opinion, but it should probably stay once its dedicated.

Go to any sculpture museum and you will see intentional damage is nothing new. I think we can all agree the removal of breasts or penis from art was incredibly immature and harmful to the artist and community that created if
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,891
31,410
146
USSR was communist too, but when they were fighting fascists, even under Stalin, the US put that aside and supported them. That's how important fighting fascism is for America. You don't have to like Antifa politics to support their kicking neonazi butt.

The US only "put that aside" because Hitler betrayed his ally, Stalin (remember--those are the two assholes that started the war) and invaded Russian-occupied territory. It was far more advantageous at that point to ally with Stalin, who was more than willing to kill as many of his own people as he was Nazis, just to win.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Oddly enough I find Communist Soviet-era Art quite interesting. I do wish a lot of these things still existed because its a powerful way to reflect on the past. Lenin is one of those morphing figures that makes him larger then life. Seeing huge statues of his likeness reflects the powerful influence he had. Tearing the statues down in my opinion is a shortsighted and misguided.

Thankfully most of us want to preserve...but we are a passive lot that will get run over by the ISIS style explode anything that triggers me mentality.
Communist art is fine in a museum. But even Soviets Communists removed statues of Stalin from prominent public locations when he died. You simply can't impose statues of people who fought to keep them as slaves on black people against their will.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
If a community decided to throw up a $10 plaster penis and call it art, that is their choice. Coming in years or decades later to tear it down and decide its no longer art or significant is extremely dangerous. Interpretation can change, that is fluid.

So you can look at it and hate it or love it in my opinion, but it should probably stay once its dedicated.

Go to any sculpture museum and you will see intentional damage is nothing new. I think we can all agree the removal of breasts or penis from art was incredibly immature and harmful to the artist and community that created if

Getting rid of cookie cutter statues that were cheaply erected to reinforce systemic racism and oppression is equivalent to taking the naked bits off of actual works of art.

Got it.
 
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Jul 9, 2009
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The only ones I know of that are actively defending the Nazis is the ACLU. I guess you must think the ACLU is a nazi organization now.

Foam on Zin, foam on.
Nope.

It's about calling Nazis, Nazis. This isn't about "anyone who disagrees with you."

Are you trying to defend the actual Nazis that have called themselves Nazis? Does this mean you are a Nazi? There is no defense for Nazis, you get that, right?

Those that showed up in VA are Nazis, because, you know, they fucking called themselves Nazis and chanted like goddamn goatfucking pedo Nazis. Just like you expect Nazis to do. ...but are you saying they have "political differences?"

Oh, you must be a Nazi then, if you sympathize with the. There is free speech, there is fire in a theater, and there are fucking Nazis. You can't have all of them, child. Grow the fuck up and get the shit out of the room while the adults are speaking.

Hilarious: Goat-fucking Nazis show up to chant about killing jews and blacks, and this little shit up here defends them with "political difference." Fucking Nazis. they are empowered by President Nazi.

antifa isn't leftwing. they aren't any wing. they are anarchists and they are nihilsts. Did you eat shit for breakfast or what? Goddamn wannabe Nazi.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,041
136
If a community decided to throw up a $10 plaster penis and call it art, that is their choice. Coming in years or decades later to tear it down and decide its no longer art or significant is extremely dangerous. Interpretation can change, that is fluid.

So you can look at it and hate it or love it in my opinion, but it should probably stay once its dedicated.

Go to any sculpture museum and you will see intentional damage is nothing new. I think we can all agree the removal of breasts or penis from art was incredibly immature and harmful to the artist and community that created if

Um...which 'community' are you referring to? You think there is always just one 'community'?

Interesting to know that if someone vandalises a bus-shelter or spray-paints a swastika on a wall in your neighbourhood you'll campaign against it ever being repaired or removed. Really, could you be any more disingenuous?

I prefer a more dynamic and less funereal approach to art, myself. The only constant in life is change.

Knocking those statues down is a pretty good bit of performance art, now I come to think of it.
 
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apokalipse

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2005
18
3
81
Where were the Nazi's in Boston? If there was any evidence of Nazi's there, the media would have pounced on it immediately.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
Um...which 'community' are you referring to? You think there is always just one 'community'?

Interesting to know that if someone vandalises a bus-shelter or spray-paints a swastika on a wall in your neighbourhood you'll campaign against it ever being repaired or removed. Really, could you be any more disingenuous?

I prefer a more dynamic and less funereal approach to art, myself. The only constant in life is change.

Knocking those statues down is a pretty good bit of performance art, now I come to think of it.
community being a group of people from that area.

Im actually opposed to removing community graffiti art as well.

Cookie cutter doesnt make art any less important, it might make it less significant though. There are tons of old casts that are highly praised as collectables.

Are you saying we cant have statues to remember terrible things or terrible people? Whats wrong with walking by a confederate soldier and thinking, boy thats a reminder it wasnt all that long ago.. Do people think tearing down a statue will erase a terrible stai on our past? I want to see the stain anx be remi xed of it.



Nice jump from community inspired art to random person who vandalizes things with swastika. *golf clap*
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
You know, I once made a comment to 234 about how if Lefties of today got their way, and got literally everything they whine about, that the Lefties of tomorrow would be screech whining about 10 other things, basically saying, the emo whiner that makes up Lefty just is never satisifed, they will always find a way to harp on something (whether real, imagined, whatever). He very much disagreed. You say that about Antifa, hey, I hope you're right. But consider this: These idiots are growing up in a full White Guilted world, where you need to be proud to be 'not a racist' (all the while minorities are racist as F, so basically, these whites are just suckers lol), you need to be Pro-Feminist, which really means whatever female whine BS of the day, etc. etc. These young people just completely soak it up, without question, because they've got a generation or two now of older idiots above them. They'll accept anything as long as it's couched in 'racism' 'sexism' 'Progressivism' etc and the "defeat" of whichever pied piper is playing that day. They purport themselves are thinkers, except, they lack critical thinking and instead are Believers.

Given the current generation of suckers, what hope do you hold out for their kids when they're in their 20's? Do you really believe they're the lessor of the evils?

Pretty easy to see why proud self-avowed racists are all conservative, and why the GOP rank and file works so hard to protect their political interests and vice versa:

so mob rules. gotcha.

did the people of Durham want the statue down or a anarchist mob?

This wasn't something anyone cared about with sufficient intensity until it turned politically useful. It's faux outrage because it's convenient. I do understand the points of those protesting against it, although the outrage is manufactured. Our country is extremely polarized and no matter the issue there always has to be a side - something to be against (left and right). There's always a spin on things, discussion and common ground isn't allowed to exist.

Antifa are essentially a communist group manufacturing outrage and crying wolf about "Nazi's".
To antifa, anyone who is not "us" is one of "them" (an alt-right, white supremacist Nazi).

And what happens when you call normal people "Nazi's" for long enough?
Accusations of being a Nazi fall on deaf ears with all the normal people, and then actual Nazi's take the opportunity to come out of the shadows, and you get what happened at Charlottesville.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,891
31,410
146
community being a group of people from that area.

Im actually opposed to removing community graffiti art as well.

Cookie cutter doesnt make art any less important, it might make it less significant though. There are tons of old casts that are highly praised as collectables.

Are you saying we cant have statues to remember terrible things or terrible people? Whats wrong with walking by a confederate soldier and thinking, boy thats a reminder it wasnt all that long ago.. Do people think tearing down a statue will erase a terrible stai on our past? I want to see the stain anx be remi xed of it.



Nice jump from community inspired art to random person who vandalizes things with swastika. *golf clap*

I don't have a problem with the statues themselves. The problem is their placement and the context/purposes for which they are placed. It's fine to put a toppled/removed statue of Hitler in some museum; it's in rather "poor taste" to place it in a main square in, well, any city.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
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I don't have a problem with the statues themselves. The problem is their placement and the context/purposes for which they are placed. It's fine to put a toppled/removed statue of Hitler in some museum; it's in rather "poor taste" to place it in a main square in, well, any city.

import types already know why they gotta take a bullet for nazi and jim crow fans on this one. Degen do love playing dumb, though, eg. pretending they have principles like the aclu:

The only ones I know of that are actively defending the Nazis is the ACLU. I guess you must think the ACLU is a nazi organization now.

Foam on Zin, foam on.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
I don't have a problem with the statues themselves. The problem is their placement and the context/purposes for which they are placed. It's fine to put a toppled/removed statue of Hitler in some museum; it's in rather "poor taste" to place it in a main square in, well, any city.

I can agree with that.

I think Georgia Stone Mountain Park should be the litmus test on what to do with these things. But even with that obviously KKK/Racist influenced gigantic piece of "Art", I would feel weird and violated about commissioning someone to blow it up.

Perhaps we should do this. Build giant dicks next to terrible things. Don't like that civil war soldier? Build a dick next to it. Don't like Stone Mountain? Draw dicks.

Maybe that's what we should do.
 

apokalipse

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2005
18
3
81
Pretty easy to see why proud self-avowed racists are all conservative
BLM is one of the most racist groups of people today, and they tend to vote Democrat.

Also, you didn't actually bother making an argument. You instead just call people who disagree with you racist without providing a shred of evidence.

I would have normally sided with the Democrat party, but I don't support racism or communism.
Actual Nazi's have no power, except what SJW's give them.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
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BLM is one of the most racist groups of people today, and they tend to vote Democrat.

Also, you didn't actually bother making an argument. You instead just call people who disagree with you racist without providing a shred of evidence.

I would have normally sided with the Democrat party, but I don't support racism or communism.

Another totally-not-conservative who just happens to parrot trump talking points.
 
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apokalipse

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2005
18
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Another totally-not-conservative who just happens to parrot trump talking points.
You're obviously incapable of making an argument. You're not interested in what I think; you're interested in strawmanning me in order to justify your own ideology.
And this is exactly the kind of thing that turned me away from the Democrat side. You managed to become worse than the Republicans used to be.

Your ideology needs racism to exist, because it feeds off it. And if you can't find actual racism, you manufacture it; you call people racist regardless, without a single shred of evidence.

It's the modern day salem witch trials. Except it's done by the fake "progressives" instead of the religious conservatives this time.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
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You're obviously incapable of making an argument. You're not interested in what I think; you're interested in strawmanning me in order to justify your own ideology.
And this is exactly the kind of thing that turned me away from the Democrat side. You managed to become worse than the Republicans used to be.

Your ideology needs racism to exist, because it feeds off it. And if you can't find actual racism, you manufacture it; you call people racist regardless, without a single shred of evidence.

It's the modern day salem witch trials.

Of course, people who thought all that kenyan muslim and mexican rapist talk's racist was totally what turned you away from liberalism.
 

apokalipse

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2005
18
3
81
Of course, people who thought all that kenyan muslim and mexican rapist talk's racist was totally what turned you away from liberalism.
Your sentence is broken and incoherent, but you obviously still have zero interest in asking me what I actually think. Your ideology requires you to construct strawman after strawman after strawman after strawman. I could tell you right to your face that I believe the sky is blue and you'll keep telling everyone that I think it's purple.

You're part of the modern day salem witch trials. History will look to people like you as a lesson on how to avoid cult mentalities.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Your sentence is broken and incoherent, but you obviously still have zero interest in asking me what I actually think. Your ideology requires you to construct strawman after strawman after strawman after strawman. I could tell you right to your face that I believe the sky is blue and you'll keep telling everyone that I think it's purple.

You're part of the modern day salem witch trials. History will look to people like you as a lesson on how to avoid cult mentalities.

All very confusing why dime a dozen white nationalist sympathizers will play every game in the gop book to pretend they're not. Seems liberalism has already won here.
 

apokalipse

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2005
18
3
81
All very confusing why dime a dozen white nationalist sympathizers will play every game in the gop book to pretend they're not. Seems liberalism has already won here.
You're just continuing to prove my point. There's no point me telling you that I'm opposed to Nazi's, because you'll just keep telling everyone that I am a Nazi. You have zero interest in being honest.
It is this kind of blatant dishonesty that turned me away from the Democrat side.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
You're just continuing to prove my point. There's no point me telling you that I'm opposed to Nazi's, because you'll just keep telling everyone that I am a Nazi. You have zero interest in being honest.
It is this kind of blatant dishonesty that turned me away from the Democrat side.

About as convincing as dear leader's script reading last monday.