I already dislike PCI Express... (rant)

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
T

Tom61

Senior member
Aug 16, 2000
200
0
0
I already dislike PCI Express and it's not even out yet. 16x slots are physically different than 4x slots. Up until now, I was thinking that PCI Express was just going to be a faster PCI bus. It would have been great to just move your old primary card into another slot when you got a newer faster card and using the the old card for a second (third, fourth) monitor, but no, its the toss affair same as AGP...

Only thing that make it worse is if 4x and 1x slots are different as well. I wonder if you can even plug a lower card in a higher slot, like the old ISA in a EISA or VLB slot, or not.

The only possible redeeming value of PCI Express over current video cards is if they put the video chip facing up in a tower case, instead of down like with AGP. Doubtfull, considering the different slots.

Add to that the newbie confusion this is going to cause, once they buy a 16x card and it won't fit in their 4x slot...
 
T

Tiorapatea

Member
Oct 7, 2003
145
0
0
OK, things are worse. The various different bandwiths will all come with a different physical slot.

The thing is, though, that I think people generally want horses for courses. Do you really need a 16x slot for anything other than graphics? Bear in mind that, in practice, all 16x slots will be feeding off Northbridge logic so it's not clear you could add anything but graphics to them anyway. Similarly, it looks like VIA for one will be adding a 4x slot to its upcoming Northbridge but that this will be a specialised slot for Gigabit ethernet - I don't think that ATI could just make a line of PCIE graphics cards with 4x connectors and expect VIA's Northbridge chipset to handle dual graphics cards.

The southbridge will be where we see more variety, I believe, with vendors moving to offer a few 1x slots and a maybe a couple of 2x slots, in addition to vanilla PCI for legacy cards. These will be the general purpose slots for things like RAID controllers, firewire cards and so on. PCIE 2x should be enough bandwith for all forseeable uses, including gigabit ethernet (but at this time, I have not seen references to 2x slots being developed for the launch of PCIE, which is presumably why VIA has gone 4x), except obviously for additional graphics cards. So I think we'll see standardisation across peripheral classes, with all sound cards having 1x connectors, all gigabit cards having 2x connectors etc. etc. This should help keep this problem manageable.

Eventually, someone may come out with a dual 16x arrangement on the Northbridge, but it seems as if the trend these days is to handle multiple monitor requirements on a single card.

Note that I am absolutely not an expert, in case you were wondering :) - I have simply been wrestling with these issues myself because I am ready to build a new system and have been weighing up whether to wait for PCI Express.

Andy Hui, comments please.
 
O

Overkast

Senior member
Aug 1, 2003
337
0
0
Honestly, anyone who is looking to build right now and are "waiting" on PCI Express to make a decision... don't.

Stop waiting. Build now. PCI Express is one of those technological milestones that you're better off not buying into version 1.0 (if there were version numbers for hardware that is!).

The whole industry is going to take some time to fully integrate AND MIGRATE completely over to PCI Express. I recommend waiting a few years (2 perhaps?) before even considering on putting money into a PCI Express configuration. By then, you'll have many more avenues to choose for your PCI Express path.
 
T

Tiorapatea

Member
Oct 7, 2003
145
0
0
Overkast, I agree - I'm really waiting for PCI Express so that non-PCI Express gets cheaper, like those Asus and Abit P4C motherboards I've got my eye on. I may end up going AthlonXP if I get too impatient because I don't know if that platform will get much cheaper from here.
 
beatle

beatle

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2001
5,661
5
81
No kidding. NF2 motherboards didn't plummet in prices when the A64 was introduced. I wouldn't hold out for PCI Express, since it'll be expensive, possibly buggy, and there won't be much selection. Sure, PCI Express is "right around the corner" but it has to turn another corner for the prices to drop. :)
 
mechBgon

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Originally posted by: Tom61
I already dislike PCI Express and it's not even out yet. 16x slots are physically different than 4x slots. Up until now, I was thinking that PCI Express was just going to be a faster PCI bus. It would have been great to just move your old primary card into another slot when you got a newer faster card and using the the old card for a second (third, fourth) monitor, but no, its the toss affair same as AGP...

Only thing that make it worse is if 4x and 1x slots are different as well. I wonder if you can even plug a lower card in a higher slot, like the old ISA in a EISA or VLB slot, or not.

The only possible redeeming value of PCI Express over current video cards is if they put the video chip facing up in a tower case, instead of down like with AGP. Doubtfull, considering the different slots.

Add to that the newbie confusion this is going to cause, once they buy a 16x card and it won't fit in their 4x slot...
Click to expand...
Umm... AGP slots are physically different from PCI slots too. I don't recall much newbie confusion over having to plug the AGP card into the AGP slot, instead of a PCI slot :eek: What is the big dealio here?

 
BD231

BD231

Lifer
Feb 26, 2001
10,568
138
106
Perhaps one should know what he's buying before he buys it?

You obviously have no use for PCIe Tom, as it's not JUST for video cards. 133mbs of bandwidth for multiple SCSI drives is in a word is, SH*T........COMPLETE SH*T.

I for one will be happy to make the switch once it's ecnomical, while you Tom, will be b*tching about how your old sound card isn't compatible with the new motherboard.

A standard will be found, end of story.

 
R

rstarr

Senior member
Jan 23, 2003
370
0
0
Originally posted by: Overkast
Honestly, anyone who is looking to build right now and are "waiting" on PCI Express to make a decision... don't.

Stop waiting. Build now. PCI Express is one of those technological milestones that you're better off not buying into version 1.0 (if there were version numbers for hardware that is!).

The whole industry is going to take some time to fully integrate AND MIGRATE completely over to PCI Express. I recommend waiting a few years (2 perhaps?) before even considering on putting money into a PCI Express configuration. By then, you'll have many more avenues to choose for your PCI Express path.
Click to expand...

I agree. Everyone remember the change over from Slot to socket? No one thought that socket could/would replace the slot motherboards. Look at us now.

PCI-X is in our futures ladies and gentlemen! :)

 
P

PCTweaker5

Banned
Jun 5, 2003
2,810
0
0
Nice reading here. I was planning on starting a new system soon preferably another Athlon system but I think I'll wait until PCI Express fully settles in.
 
P

pspada

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2002
2,503
0
0
feh, I never wait for anything to arrive before I update my system. Hell, SATA was all the rage before it was available, but now it's out there seems to be no great rush to move to it.
 
T

Tom61

Senior member
Aug 16, 2000
200
0
0
You obviously have no use for PCIe Tom, as it's not JUST for video cards. 133mbs of bandwidth for multiple SCSI drives is in a word is, SH*T........COMPLETE SH*T.
Click to expand...

PCIe 16x is intended just for video cards. Not to mention it seems you have to match the slot and card exactly (correct me if I'm wrong). Want to put a 2x PCIe SATA card in, and have only a 4x slot open? Too bad! You can't.

Umm... AGP slots are physically different from PCI slots too. I don't recall much newbie confusion over having to plug the AGP card into the AGP slot, instead of a PCI slot What is the big dealio here?
Click to expand...

If the AGP slot was also called PCI, wouldn't that cause confusion? The noobs are gonna look at the sticker on their box that says they have 'PCI Express' go out and buy a video card that says that it fits 'PCI Express', and guess what, it doesn't fit.

I for one will be happy to make the switch once it's ecnomical, while you Tom, will be b*tching about how your old sound card isn't compatible with the new motherboard.
Click to expand...

I usually migrate eventually to whatever the current standard is, I went from ISA/VLB to PCI over the time, then onto AGP for video.

It's not so much that, as I was hoping PCI Express was going to be more like PCI when it came out. That is, usefull for only high-end SCSI and video (IDE didn't tax the ISA bus much at that time), but having several compatable slot per board.
 
M

MrCodeDude

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
13,674
1
76
Originally posted by: rstarr
PCI-X is in our futures ladies and gentlemen! :)
Click to expand...
PCI-X isn't PCI-Express.

From Andy Hui:
PCI-E = PCI Express (new serial technology)

PCI-X = PCI-eXtended (old technology... basically a widened, overclocked PCI bus)
 
mechBgon

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
If the AGP slot was also called PCI, wouldn't that cause confusion? The noobs are gonna look at the sticker on their box that says they have 'PCI Express' go out and buy a video card that says that it fits 'PCI Express', and guess what, it doesn't fit.
Click to expand...
Aren't you jumping to conclusions? How do you know what the box will say?

If it clearly states that it needs a 16x slot, that is no more of a cause for confusion than the latest AGP cards that require a Universal AGP slot (0.8V/1.5V). Do you know how many types of AGP slots there are now? Hint: you'll need more than one hand's worth of fingers to count them all :)

With over 13000 posts here, I have seen a few people run into the problem where they want to use incompatible AGP cards & slots, but it's not very frequent, and I think most people who have a desire to spend $250-$500+ on a PCI-E 16x card when they first appear, will also have enough hardware savvy to know that it is a "special" item that will require an appropriate motherboard. By the time these cards drift down to the mainstream price range where the actual n00bs are, you can be pretty sure that an off-the-shelf HP, Dell or Gateway will have waved 'bye to AGP slots and have a PCI-E 16x slot (unless they are like the bottom-line models now that don't even have an AGP slot). Just my opinion :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom