Hypothetical WC build

[Phew]

I've found myself thinking about water cooling lately. Just for giggles, I put together this component list:

Lian-Li PCA70B Case-$240
Lian-Li T-703 3x120mm top panel-$40
Swiftech MCP655 DC Pump-$80
Swiftech Apogee GTZ-$65
Swiftech 5.25" Bay Reservoir-$17
Thermochill PA 120.3 Radiator-$135
TOTAL-$600ish

I'd probably wait for the next generation of video cards before I think about a GPU block. I want a decent compromise between noise and cooling performance, with a little more emphasis on performance.

Aigo and others, what do you think of this component list? I don't know anything about WC other than what I've read here lately, so for all I know something may be incompatible, a weak link, or overkill for the application.

Oh, and I could care less about bling factor. The case won't even have a window.

TIA

EDIT-What I actually bought-
Same case, case top, block, and pump as above, but the other components are:
Feser X-Changer Triple 360 mm Extreme Performance Radiator-$140
Swiftech MICRO Rev2 Reservoir-$25

Total came to about $700 after shipping, and misc accessories like Danger Den high flow barb fittings, 7/16" ID clear Tygon tubing, additives, etc. Pretty steep for a loop that doesn't even have a GPU block, but every component should last me for at least 5 years.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[PCTC2]

It's good, however, FYI, the top for your Lian-Li is cut for radiators like the Swiftech MCR320, and not the Thermochill PA 120.3. A new radiator, the XSPC RX360 is supposed to give Feser's and Thermochill's a run for their money and you can pick them up for around $80 right now because of a paint blemish, and it looks like the same spacing as the MCR320.

Also, I don't know about those barbs. Don't know how they connect to standard tubing, but also, what tubing are you looking at, along with barbs and hose clamps?
MasterKleer 7/16" is cheap, and the next step up is Tygon 7/16". These would go over 1/2" barbs for a snug fit so you only really need zip ties as clamps. 1/2" is also a good idea, but you would need hose clamps as worm gears or nylon clamps.

And it isn't going to be overkill if you are going to cool a GPU later as well.

Otherwise, nice loop.

EDIT: Also, note that my case is only spaced for the Swiftech MCR320 but I have the Thermochill, but it is only supported by 4 screws (the center fan).

 

[Jessica69]

Nice selection.......but a few suggestions for you.

First, the threading of your fittings you linked to probably won't thread into any block or radiator...most, except for the Thermochill, use G1/4 BSPP or NPSM threading, completely incompatible with NPT threads. They'll go in a little then bind.....18 threads per inch for NPT and 19 threads per inch for BSPP, not to mention BSPP is a parallel thread, not tapered. Thermochill uses G3/8 BSPP, I believe....the oddball of rads in so many ways, outside its performance.

I'd think instead of plain old barbs, the Danger Den/Bitspower FatBoy barbs, specifically. They have the largest internal diameter of any barbs in any size....1/2" or 3/8".

And with tubing size, it really doesn't make a huge amount of difference in overall temps...read Cathar's tubing testing at Xtremesystem's forums. It's in the Liquid Cooling section, in the sticky post.

Speaking of radiators and performance, consider a couple of alternatives.........

Swiftech's MCR320....90% of the performance of the TC120.3 for less than half the cost.....provided you use the proper fannage.

XSPC's RX360, a new rad on the market and tested well by Skinnee at Xtremesystems....there is a link to his testing on the page I linked.


Good cpu block.

Good pump.......Personally, I'm more of the DDC3.2 pump person. Easier to hide and fit in cases.


Never was a fan of bay reservoirs.......I'd suggest either this res/top combo for the DDC3.2 pump..... or you could use The ever popular EK round reservoir.....lots do.


Nice case, btw......I'm presently using the Lian Li/Rocketfish case. A nice, albeit expensive alternative, though, is the Silverstone TJ-07. LOTS of people use it quite successfully.

Another popular alternative is at Mountain Mods....their new tower case.....sure you saw it there while looking around.


Good luck!!!

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

How does that swiftech compare to the EK supreme?

 

[Jessica69]

The GTZ would probably cool within a couple of degrees C of the the EK Supreme, but the EK Supreme is probably one of the most restrictive blocks out there......needs to be in its own loop, and probably not even include a Northbridge cooler, either. I've read that the EK Supreme needs lots of pressure to perform at its best, more than most any other block, and would do best with a high pressure pump......the DDC3.2 is decent, better would be a pair of DDC3.2's using the two DDC3.2-into-one pump tops, or even better an Iwaki pump......at least that's what I've gleaned from XS.

You can follow the link below to see Martin's last test, done last Nov.....a 15 cpu block test on a Q6600 cpu. While the temp findings are great info, pay attention to the flow info, too.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=206712

 

[Phew]

Thanks for the great input!

 

[Phew]

I pulled the trigger. See OP for the list of components I actually bought. After much research, went with the Koolance 350 CPU block and the Feser 3x120mm rad. Apparently that Koolance block is hugely restrictive, but since the most I will ever have is a CPU block and a single GPU block, I'm sure this pump can handle it. Thanks for the input!

 

[WoodButcher]

Return the res, aluminum and copper don't mix.

 

[Phew]

Originally posted by: WoodButcher
Return the res, aluminum and copper don't mix.

The reservoir is fully anodized (as far as I can tell), so it's inert. As far as the fluid is concerned, the reservoir is ceramic. Lots of people run this reservoir with copper blocks/rads, and I haven't seen anyone report problems.

I will be using "Feser Base Corrosion Blocker" also.

 

[PCTC2]

Originally posted by: Phew

Originally posted by: WoodButcher
Return the res, aluminum and copper don't mix.

The reservoir is fully anodized (as far as I can tell), so it's inert. As far as the fluid is concerned, the reservoir is ceramic. Lots of people run this reservoir with copper blocks/rads, and I haven't seen anyone report problems.

I will be using "Feser Base Corrosion Blocker" also.

It may be anodized, but it still is Aluminum. It is better to run with same metals and not worth the risk of manufacturer mistakes for a thin anodized layer and eventual corrosion.

Well, since you already bought stuff, I was going to say that the XSPC RX360's are half the price for the same performance as the Fesers (or so it is to be believed. I need to buy one to test this). With the Koolance block, you are going to want to run straight from the pump to the block as it is an injector type block.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Run the same metals - don't ask questions

 

[Phew]

After reading up some more about galvanic corrosion, I don't see how it could be a problem with distilled water. Galvanic corrosion only occurs when metals are separated by an electrolyte (i.e. conductive liquid). Distilled water isn't conductive. Not to mention the aluminum is anodized, AND I'm using an anti-corrosion additive. Shoot, XSPC includes this reservoir in a kit with a copper CPU block and rad.

Also, THIS thread on XS pretty much debunks the galvanic corrosion in water cooling applications myth.

Galvanic Corrosion Wiki entry

 

[PCTC2]

however, distilled water easily becomes conductive in a loop. Ions are easily incorporated into water. There are plenty of us here that have had experience with corrosion (Aigo, anyone?). Aigo's ApogeeGTX corroded because the coating on the top degraded.

Zalman and Koolance also have mixed-metals kits. It still doesn't make it right.

 

[Phew]

This is pretty easily settled. Someone that has been running the same water in their loop for for several months just stick two probes from a multimeter in their reservoir water about an inch apart. If you measure any sub-infinite resistance, then PCTC2 is correct. Otherwise, this galvanic corrosion issue with distilled water is probably a myth.

 

[aigomorla]

mixing metals is an old taboo we avoid now.

I dont care what the alu is, anodized, plated, even military spec plating.

In the end, it wont hold.

Just ditch the ALU, 90% of the time you pick alu, its becuase of bling. If you want bling, go on air.

Also that passive res wont help you at all but congure up a uber PITA headache in the future.

Seriously, water is not something you want to make disney land out of and mickey mouse on. If something goes wrong because of poor planing, it can and will take your entire computer with it when it goes.

The RX rads from XSPC are crap. The painting is next to piss poor, and this is from my friend skinnee and mcoffey. If you dont mind piss poor painting, then the rad is awesome, however a lot of people are seriously ranting about its piss poor paintjob.

 

[Phew]

The vendor said I could return that reservoir without a restocking charge, so I'll just do that. I ordered the Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir.

I'd still be interested to see the conductivity test I mentioned, if you've got a minute to stick some multimeter probes in the water of one of your loops with older water Aigo.

I'm sticking with the Feser rad, I felt so fortunate to actually find one in stock somewhere.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Phew
The vendor said I could return that reservoir without a restocking charge, so I'll just do that. I ordered the Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir.

I'd still be interested to see the conductivity test I mentioned, if you've got a minute to stick some multimeter probes in the water of one of your loops with older water Aigo.

I'm sticking with the Feser rad, I felt so fortunate to actually find one in stock somewhere.

conductivity as in coolant conductivity?
When you tap a distilled bottle, its pH is 7. Its neutral, and has 0 conductivity.
As you expose it to air, it will catch ions, and slowly get conductive.
As you drip it on your videocard, if your card had dust, BAM! now its conductive.

The question is tho, how clean is your case, and how long was the coolant exposed to air?

Watercooling is on a basis of closed loop. So once your loop is sealed, very little air gets mixed inside. You do however evap coolant though your tubing. And hence lose coolant.

The evap processes is uber slow tho, it can be months b4 you notice your coolant levels are a bit low.

But all coolant is basically the same. Its a form of distilled h2o + ethylene + (phosphate of some sort for the AC).

Get rid the corrosion element in your loop, and all you really need is distilled h2o and maybe 2 drops of copper sulfate, or a piece of silver for a biocide.

If you really want the colors, im hearing a mix review on the fesser coolant, but it still has more yes's then no's compared to the other coolants.

 

[PCTC2]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

The RX rads from XSPC are crap. The painting is next to piss poor, and this is from my friend skinnee and mcoffey. If you dont mind piss poor painting, then the rad is awesome, however a lot of people are seriously ranting about its piss poor paintjob.

Yeah. XSPC recognized this and all prices are dropped on these shipments of RX radiators. Future shipments will have corrected paint procedures to prevent this, however, the prices will go back to MSRP.

 

[aigomorla]

if you ask me honestly.

XSPC has goofed too many times for me to recomend them.

The only thing i will recomend is there tops for the DDC's

But there GPU blocks, cheap but piss poor, and this radiator fiasco, got me second guessing the company.

XSPC is run by 1 person. I think he is seriously overworked, and needs to get help.

 

[Tencntraze]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
The RX rads from XSPC are crap. The painting is next to piss poor, and this is from my friend skinnee and mcoffey. If you dont mind piss poor painting, then the rad is awesome, however a lot of people are seriously ranting about its piss poor paintjob.

I actually ended up getting the RX360 and RX120 at a discount because the paint was supposedly crap, which I don't care at all about as I won't be looking at them anyway. When I got them, I couldn't notice any problems with it until I looked closely at it, so YMMV. Since they perform well at low speeds, the price was certainly right for me.

 

[aigomorla]

means the rad sat at the store for the paint to dry.

OR john started pulling all the rads out and let it sit so they would dry out.

The original rads came with paper still stuck on the paint. They didnt even bother to cure the paint long enough.

And you guys know how bad stuck paper looks on paint. :X

 

[PCTC2]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
means the rad sat at the store for the paint to dry.

OR john started pulling all the rads out and let it sit so they would dry out.

The original rads came with paper still stuck on the paint. They didnt even bother to cure the paint long enough.

And you guys know how bad stuck paper looks on paint. :X

Which is why all my radiators are internally mounted so you can't see them.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: PCTC2

Originally posted by: aigomorla
means the rad sat at the store for the paint to dry.

OR john started pulling all the rads out and let it sit so they would dry out.

The original rads came with paper still stuck on the paint. They didnt even bother to cure the paint long enough.

And you guys know how bad stuck paper looks on paint. :X

Which is why all my radiators are internally mounted so you can't see them.

u put them internally because it looks nicer overall.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
means the rad sat at the store for the paint to dry.

OR john started pulling all the rads out and let it sit so they would dry out.

The original rads came with paper still stuck on the paint. They didnt even bother to cure the paint long enough.

And you guys know how bad stuck paper looks on paint. :X

That's definitely a 'don't give a shit about QC' attitude.

If they've skimped on the QC for the paint finish it makes you wonder where else they've skimped.

 

[Phew]

Hey, don't hijack my thread with complaints about a radiator I didn't consider or buy

I didn't consider the RX 360 for the same reason you mentioned; if they can't even paint the thing right, I'm supposed to trust that they didn't cut corners with the brazing/etc?

The Black Ice GTX 360 was a close second to the Feser in my search (I was very close to buying it because I had so much trouble finding the Feser in stock anywhere). Apparently somewhere around 1500ish RPM on the fans, the Black Ice may take the lead on the Feser. 1500 RPM is about the upper limit on what I can tolerate acoustically, so it was a toss up. When in doubt, go with German engineering.