Hypothetical Scenario

[K1052]

Originally posted by: JTsyo

Originally posted by: darkxshade
I mean I know the why they did it part. What I'm really curious about is what in their right mind gave them the bright idea that America was going to ignore the deaths of thousands of sailors. They had to have known they were going to start a war with that attack and that leads to my questioning why they went ahead with that if they didn't have a plan on how to end it short of being nuked from orbit.

Had the attacks on Pearl Harbor taken out the US carriers, it would have taken the US years to be able to stand up to the Japanese fleet.

If the US, with it's population, was intimidated from invading the Japanese mainland, think of what the Japanese would be thinking about invading the US. Even if they had taken out the US fleet, I doubt they would have tried to go any further than Hawaii.

Also if the Japanese were a more gracious victor, the populations of SE Asia might have cooperated with them. In that case I doubt the US would be to displace them at all. There might have been a Japanese Empire right now instead of a Chinese power in the region.

Nagumo also failed to destroy the fuel oil depots, submarine base, and other important targets at Pearl which would have crippled it's usefulness as a naval facility for some time.

 

[Udgnim]

Japan would probably have a decent history of massacres to maintain control over the SE Asian regions it controls

 

[uhohs]

Originally posted by: darkxshade
If Japan won WWII... my best guess is that this forum would be under the rule of uhohs and he would institute a rule such that we'd have to listen to Morning Mosume everyday.

Modern japanese culture and music would be drastically different if they had won the war and didn't have American/Western pop culture thrust upon them. Thanks the the USA, morning musume and other idol pop acts exist.

:Q

 

[GagHalfrunt]

What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Barfo

Originally posted by: Mide
Neither Germany nor Japan could've invaded the mainland of the US and maintained sovereignty over the whole thing.

why not?

I'd imagine we're too wide-spread and well armed for any foreign country to invade and maintain sovereignty over the US (and they'd have to demolish our navy first or else we could just pick them off before they reach us, assuming it's not Canada invading us and no nukes are involved)

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?

What if Robert E. Lee had an arsenal of AK-47s?

I want to read some alternate history books. They sound like fun.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?

What if Robert E. Lee had an arsenal of AK-47s?

I want to read some alternate history books. They sound like fun.

this guy's written a bunch of good ones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Turtledove

I'm reading the Settling Accounts series right now (takes place in the 1940's, after the confederates won the Civil War). started out pretty good, though it seems to be quickly devolving (I'm in the middle of the third book and it's starting to feel like HT is just rewriting WW2 on American soil)

 

[Pepsei]

England would be known as the country that makes tiny high tech electronics with superb innovation. their tiny cars would take over america after the 70's, and mustang lovers would call those cars and their owner tea baggers. Instead of anime, we get danger mouse and thunderbird.

 

[compuwiz1]

Japan would own a whole lot more real estate, that's for sure.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?

what if dinosaurs had lasers and space armor?

 

[Buttzilla]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JTsyo

Originally posted by: darkxshade
I mean I know the why they did it part. What I'm really curious about is what in their right mind gave them the bright idea that America was going to ignore the deaths of thousands of sailors. They had to have known they were going to start a war with that attack and that leads to my questioning why they went ahead with that if they didn't have a plan on how to end it short of being nuked from orbit.

Had the attacks on Pearl Harbor taken out the US carriers, it would have taken the US years to be able to stand up to the Japanese fleet.

If the US, with it's population, was intimidated from invading the Japanese mainland, think of what the Japanese would be thinking about invading the US. Even if they had taken out the US fleet, I doubt they would have tried to go any further than Hawaii.

Also if the Japanese were a more gracious victor, the populations of SE Asia might have cooperated with them. In that case I doubt the US would be to displace them at all. There might have been a Japanese Empire right now instead of a Chinese power in the region.

Nagumo also failed to destroy the fuel oil depots, submarine base, and other important targets at Pearl which would have crippled it's usefulness as a naval facility for some time.

this was the key to why we were able rebound so quick. if they had just gone for the oil depots to begin with, made sure they were destroyed, it would have set us back even more. as i recall, the oil depots were not that far away from where they were bombing. but we got lucky that they mainly targeted the ships.

 

[Mermaidman]

Originally posted by: Barfo
What if Japan had won WWII?

We'd be buying Jap cars, Jap TVs, eating sushi, and liquifying our brains watching anime and tentacle pr0n.

 

[Epic Fail]

Originally posted by: Mermaidman

Originally posted by: Barfo
What if Japan had won WWII?

We'd be buying Jap cars, Jap TVs, eating sushi, and liquifying our brains watching anime and tentacle pr0n.

So Japan won WWII?

 

[Barfo]

Originally posted by: Epic Fail

Originally posted by: Mermaidman

Originally posted by: Barfo
What if Japan had won WWII?

We'd be buying Jap cars, Jap TVs, eating sushi, and liquifying our brains watching anime and tentacle pr0n.

So Japan won WWII?

Apparently, they did.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Buttzilla

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: JTsyo

Originally posted by: darkxshade
I mean I know the why they did it part. What I'm really curious about is what in their right mind gave them the bright idea that America was going to ignore the deaths of thousands of sailors. They had to have known they were going to start a war with that attack and that leads to my questioning why they went ahead with that if they didn't have a plan on how to end it short of being nuked from orbit.

Had the attacks on Pearl Harbor taken out the US carriers, it would have taken the US years to be able to stand up to the Japanese fleet.

If the US, with it's population, was intimidated from invading the Japanese mainland, think of what the Japanese would be thinking about invading the US. Even if they had taken out the US fleet, I doubt they would have tried to go any further than Hawaii.

Also if the Japanese were a more gracious victor, the populations of SE Asia might have cooperated with them. In that case I doubt the US would be to displace them at all. There might have been a Japanese Empire right now instead of a Chinese power in the region.

Nagumo also failed to destroy the fuel oil depots, submarine base, and other important targets at Pearl which would have crippled it's usefulness as a naval facility for some time.

this was the key to why we were able rebound so quick. if they had just gone for the oil depots to begin with, made sure they were destroyed, it would have set us back even more. as i recall, the oil depots were not that far away from where they were bombing. but we got lucky that they mainly targeted the ships.

The main thing was the carriers I thought. Then they could have taken Midway easily and used that as a staging area to invade Hawaii at their leisure. Once they had Hawaii, it would have taken a LONG time to dislodge them.

Of course 80% of the people there now are of Japanese descent anyway, so maybe it didn't matter.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: dainthomas
The main thing was the carriers I thought. Then they could have taken Midway easily and used that as a staging area to invade Hawaii at their leisure. Once they had Hawaii, it would have taken a LONG time to dislodge them.

Carriers were still in their 'infancy' when pearl was attacked. The battleship was still considered the navy's pride and joy. This is why battleship row was the main target of the pearl attack. Sinking a US Fleet carrier would have been gravy for the attack, but it was not one of the main objectives.

 

[CKent]

Our society might value intelligence instead of ridiculing it...

 

[Barfo]

Originally posted by: CKent
Our society might value intelligence instead of ridiculing it...

I thought japanese valued blind obedience and fanaticism.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Barfo

Originally posted by: Mide
Neither Germany nor Japan could've invaded the mainland of the US and maintained sovereignty over the whole thing.

why not?

We weren't as soft back then. They would had to have killed a huge percentage of the US population. Yamamoto knew this:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

 

[IronWing]

If the Japanese had won, Japanese goods would fill American stores and goods manufactured in Japan's Chinese slave plantations would drive American manufacturers into bankruptcy. It would be ugly for us.

 

[uhohs]

Originally posted by: CKent
Our society might value intelligence instead of ridiculing it...

because japanese culture and society values intelligence... lol

 

[coolVariable]

The Japanese had their own nuclear weapons program plus some other nasty weapons.
If they had nuked the US, they would have won hands down.
If they had bombed major US cities like we did to them, maybe used some B or C weapons ... chances wouldn't have been too bad.

 

[Oceandevi]

We would have way more hot japanese chicks to bang.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
We would have way more hot japanese chicks to bang.

Can we go back and have a re-do?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: darkxshade

Originally posted by: Genx87
The only way Japan wins is if they invade mainland USA and take us out. That wasnt happening. So it is hard to imagine a world with an imperialist Japan at the helm. It also depends what happens with Germany. The communists push to the English channel they probably take out Japan anyways.

So one has to wonder, why would Japan start a war they couldn't finish? What were they trying to accomplish? As far as history goes, I know about the events that lead to the attack on Pearl Harbor but outside of that, what was their end game? Was it that they thought they really could invade all of the US?

We were denying them oil and other raw materials that they needed, like steel. And we opposed their imperial ambitions in the Far East. Japan and the US were on a collision course, anyway, and their thinking was that a decisive first strike might make us lose heart and "see the light" and sue for peace, leaving them free reign in their sphere of influence.

But Admiral Yamamoto, who had studied in the US, knew the folly of this and knew they would only be awakening a "sleeping giant." But when tasked with planning Pearl Harbor, he obeyed the chain of command and stoically did his soldierly duty.

Actually it was Yamamoto's idea to attack Pearl Harbor.
Why would he plan this if he understood that America would respond to an attack on a US possesion and our major naval base if Japan's plan was a swift local victory and then a negotiated peace?

Yamamoto's own words before the war:
Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it is not enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House. I wonder if our politicians.. [who speak so lightly of a Japanese-American war].. have confidence as to the final outcome and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices

Unlike most Japanese Yamamoto knew the US would never meekly accept a negotiated peace but would fight for complete victory. So any local attack in SE Asia would begin a fight to the death. And literally the only chance HE saw was a military defeat of the US. Hence he came up with a plan that would inflict the greatest military damage to the US.

So, basically, Japan and Yamamoto were working at cross purposes. Japan wanted to inflict enough damage against the US that it would see that a military victory was a long and difficult road and so sue for peace. But Yamamoto made a plan to defeat the US, but not be conducive to negotiations.