Hypothetical: Can I physically remove the GPS from my Iphone 4?

[Liberator21]

Here is a link, scroll down to see a detailed pic of the Iphone 4's GPS chip:

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone-4-Teardown/3130/3

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Now, what got me thinking about this in the first place was a recent update to Apple's EULA for all their products. It states that Apple reserves the right to monitor users' locations however they deem fit. This bugs me. While the settings on the Iphone can stop Apps from using location based services, there is no way to stop Apple. I'm not a paranoid whacko, I just want to know if it's possible, and if the phone would continue to function.

Oh, and by the way before we delve to deep into this topic: You can completely shut off cellular transmission, which *should* stop the argument of "well they can still triangulate your position from the cell towers"... right?

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Ok, into the meat of this exploration. If you look at the photo from the link you will notice the physical GPS chip. It is sitting on a black controller board that is connected to the larger logic board, correct?

Would one need to dislodge the chip from the black controller, or remove the entire board from the logic board? Or, could it be even simpler, such as removing a single pin that connects it all together and not physically remove the GPS.

I've searched all the interwebz and no one has an answer... No one has even been asking the question. Thanks

 

[Bateluer]

I support your stance on monitoring, but I don't think you can just desolder the GPS chip without causing irreparable harm to the phone, obviously voiding the warranty.

For my Android device, I leave the GPS/Wireless location functions off, deny all sites access to locations, and have Dolphin set to dump everything on close. When I see apps that ask for location information without a reason, I install, then uninstall to leave a comment or email the development.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

There's a website you can go to on your iPhone that will opt you out of any collected data from Apple. I just don't remember what it was.

 

[s44]

I believe the FCC forbids turning off tower-based location for 911 use. But yes, airplane mode should prevent that... It stops GPS too, of course.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

http://oo.apple.com will opt you out of iAds.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I believe the FCC forbids turning off tower-based location for 911 use. But yes, airplane mode should prevent that... It stops GPS too, of course.

I think the FCC's requirement is actually an NSA/CIA/FBI requirement that the FCC has become the cutout for.


Brian

 

[Liberator21]

Thanks, I did go to oo.apple.com, but it still wasn't that assuring to me.

And the whole thing about the FCC is concerning as well. So you're saying it's illegal for a person to turn off cellular data on their own device, under the guise of 911 emergency services?

Back to my original request. I don't care about warranty so that's not an issue. If the chip is physically removed without damaging anything else, do you think there is some kind of function check that would fail and cause the phone not to work?

 

[Binky]

What, no "foil hat" comments?

 

[corkyg]

Reminds of an incident last week. A friend could not find her smart phone. She called the number - looked high and low, and retraced all her steps and places she visited. She decided it was lost.

She went to the service provider to cancel that phone and get a new one. The rep asked if she had her GPS enabled. She said yes. The employee then called up a location image on her display and said, "Your phone is in your car!"

Whoa! She went out and sure enough, it had fallen off the center console next to the passenger seat and was hidden from view. The phone was recovered at no cost.

Unless you are a crook or engaged in something shady, think twice before disabling the GPS signal. In some situations, it could save your life.

 

[purbeast0]

Reminds of an incident last week. A friend could not find her smart phone. She called the number - looked high and low, and retraced all her steps and places she visited. She decided it was lost.

She went to the service provider to cancel that phone and get a new one. The rep asked if she had her GPS enabled. She said yes. The employee then called up a location image on her display and said, "Your phone is in your car!"

Whoa! She went out and sure enough, it had fallen off the center console next to the passenger seat and was hidden from view. The phone was recovered at no cost.

Unless you are a crook or engaged in something shady, think twice before disabling the GPS signal. In some situations, it could save your life.

heh well then your friend did not look 'high and low' if it ended up being between seats in her car.

 

[Liberator21]

Reminds of an incident last week. A friend could not find her smart phone. She called the number - looked high and low, and retraced all her steps and places she visited. She decided it was lost.

She went to the service provider to cancel that phone and get a new one. The rep asked if she had her GPS enabled. She said yes. The employee then called up a location image on her display and said, "Your phone is in your car!"

Whoa! She went out and sure enough, it had fallen off the center console next to the passenger seat and was hidden from view. The phone was recovered at no cost.

Unless you are a crook or engaged in something shady, think twice before disabling the GPS signal. In some situations, it could save your life.

Cool story, but I don't need to be engaged in something "shady" to not want Apple watching my location. And losing my phone in between my seats is hardly an argument for letting companies have unbridled access to my whereabouts.

Actually on point to my initial request, I've also read that with cell phones you have to receive cellular data for the GPS to work at all, can anyone confirm this?

 

[pm]

I don't think it's feasible to desolder the GPS chipset - surface mount chips are just a huge pain to desolder even for professions with equipment. If I wanted to disable the GPS, I would remove the GPS antenna... It's a greyish ceramic squarish thing with a dot in the middle - I think it's up by the camera and it's just two wires. Remove either wire (the outer one is easier to get to) and that will effectively completely kill the GPS.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Cool story, but I don't need to be engaged in something "shady" to not want Apple watching my location. And losing my phone in between my seats is hardly an argument for letting companies have unbridled access to my whereabouts.

Actually on point to my initial request, I've also read that with cell phones you have to receive cellular data for the GPS to work at all, can anyone confirm this?

There are two forms of location detection in a modern phone: the obvious GPS and then there's the approximate location based on proximity to towers. You can potentially deactivate the GPS version but I don't see how you can trick the tower based type.

And no, it's not tin foil hat stuff to speculate on the motives behind the "requirement" for location systems. Try and buy an encryption product that the government hasn't mandated a back door for.

And the argument that "... if you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't fear ..." nonsense is just that -- nonsense. If you're not doing anything wrong in your bedroom you should not worry if Uncle Sam is listening in or even watching you -- right?

And even when the government isn't involved I don't particularly like being tracked for commercial/marketing purposes either. I get more than enough junk mail and spam as it is so why would I want more. In theory the better they know you the better they can target advertising to you and that COULD reduce the junk mail and spam, but that's not the way it works in practice. You're going to get all the less targeted junk mail and spam anyway and the targeted stuff will always be in addition. Spare me!


Brian

 

[TheStu]

Cool story, but I don't need to be engaged in something "shady" to not want Apple watching my location. And losing my phone in between my seats is hardly an argument for letting companies have unbridled access to my whereabouts.

Actually on point to my initial request, I've also read that with cell phones you have to receive cellular data for the GPS to work at all, can anyone confirm this?

They use aGPS, which IIRC, uses both the GPS chip and the cell towers to better get a fix on your location.

Do you know if jailbreaking can let you disable it in software?

Also, can you link to where it specifically said that Apple will peek into whatever you are doing whenever they want? My understanding was that you could still turn off location services across the board on the device in question.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I don't think it's feasible to desolder the GPS chipset - surface mount chips are just a huge pain to desolder even for professions with equipment. If I wanted to disable the GPS, I would remove the GPS antenna... It's a greyish ceramic squarish thing with a dot in the middle - I think it's up by the camera and it's just two wires. Remove either wire (the outer one is easier to get to) and that will effectively completely kill the GPS.

Yep, disconnecting the antenna would be the far simpler approach...

You can often disable the GPS but if the carrier can turn it on remotely and the government asks them to do so (court order -- or not) then the only way to actually disable is to disconnect the antenna. Once again, that will disable the GPS but they will always be able to calculate your approximate location based on proximity to tower. If you don't want "THEM" to know where you are either don't bring a phone or turn it off. And that's the thing ... the really bad guys know this and no longer use cell phones. OBL, you can be sure, doesn't have an iPhone!


Brian

 

[Liberator21]

I don't think it's feasible to desolder the GPS chipset - surface mount chips are just a huge pain to desolder even for professions with equipment. If I wanted to disable the GPS, I would remove the GPS antenna... It's a greyish ceramic squarish thing with a dot in the middle - I think it's up by the camera and it's just two wires. Remove either wire (the outer one is easier to get to) and that will effectively completely kill the GPS.

Hmm... this sounds plausible, very much so in fact. I could test it out by enabling location based services and seeing if they still worked. I'll give this a try, thanks! You said effectively kill it though, as in not entirely. What could still be done using it I wonder?

Also about cellular reception, wouldn't turning off cellular data stop anyone from triangulating a position? I don't really care about that though, I mainly want to be able to have privacy without companies knowing where I am... It's none of their damn business is what it really comes down to.

 

[TheStu]

Hmm... this sounds plausible, very much so in fact. I could test it out by enabling location based services and seeing if they still worked. I'll give this a try, thanks! You said effectively kill it though, as in not entirely. What could still be done using it I wonder?

Also about cellular reception, wouldn't turning off cellular data stop anyone from triangulating a position? I don't really care about that though, I mainly want to be able to have privacy without companies knowing where I am... It's none of their damn business is what it really comes down to.

They don't need data to triangulate... ok, well data is sent back and forth, but all it does is ping your phone from multiple towers to triangulate I think. Turning off the antenna with Airplane mode should handle that.

 

[Bateluer]

Unless you are a crook or engaged in something shady, think twice before disabling the GPS signal. In some situations, it could save your life.

There's a lot of potential for abuse with leaving the GPS on 24/7, when carriers, businesses(thru apps), and the government can track you by it. Not everyone wants their every move monitored by an outside party. Tin foil hat aside, I realize that in the big picture, a single person isn't important enough for warrant attention. Just bothers me that people so casually throw their rights and freedoms away.

My GPS and Network location functions are turned off most of the time. GPS is turned on when I need Google Nav, but Network location is turned off nearly all the time. Pretty sure its effectively on when I'm on a call, but at least I deny it to any apps I may have that are a little shady.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

I think you can block all GPS requests through jailbreaking.

But you also have to think about the fact that some apps that are running on your iPhone still collect other types of information about you.