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hypocritical christians
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cw823 - You are wrong about works. Works come as a natural progresion as we grow in faith. Works have no part in salvation. When that child has that overwhelming desire to commit his life to the Master upon his profession of faith, he's saved. Done and sealed for all time! Now if it is a true life changing experience, he will never look at Sin the same way. He will only succeed and feel that all is well, when he is in the center of God's will. Any other place and he suffers. His works will come, sometimes soon and enduring, sometimes few and far between. But because of that belief that Christ' death on that Cross at Calvary paid one time for all Sin, he will be saved. To think that works must be done for Salvation is to think that the debt is not fully paid. Tha Apostle Paul addressed this over and over. Only God know's who going to Hell. Not our job to identify them, just to tell them that old story of what He has done for us!
StormRider
Diamond Member
Actually, my analysis was flawed. Outgoing guys are good too. The thing is, if a guy that's been around decides to commit to a girl then that's a sign he really loves her too. So, I guess girls should just go for whomever they like.
BowlingNut
Member
zero, you must understand that he believes (and i as well) that good works must accompany, to give witness to the faith, to spread the faith. actions speak much louder than words. i believe that faith AND works are necessary and the good works renews faith while faith invigorates good works.
lastly, unless you are looking to start a flame war, do not EVER say someone's religous belief is wrong - that is one of the bases of ignorance.
The Greeks were not Christian. Premarital sex was a part of the learning experience for the Greeks and it was commonely accepted (gay & hetero sex..). Excessive drinking was not also a taboo in the Greeks belief system.
In Christianity (IF YOU READ THE BIBLE), these ARE SINS and not acceptable according to this perspective of God.
-dejacky
In Christianity (IF YOU READ THE BIBLE), these ARE SINS and not acceptable according to this perspective of God.
-dejacky
Exactly. It's not about a "feeling" you got one time that you got "saved". That feeling was probably just gas. It's about the Holy Spirit working in your heart, making it known that you ARE indeed a sinner, and have nothing in this life except the FREE gift from God, our salvation.
Someone that claims to be saved, yet sins, with NO repentance or confession of said sin, is most likely NOT saved.
Just remember. In today's day and age, "saved", and "Christian" are not the same. "Christian" is an abused term.
call me a fundamentalist.
Someone that claims to be saved, yet sins, with NO repentance or confession of said sin, is most likely NOT saved.
Just remember. In today's day and age, "saved", and "Christian" are not the same. "Christian" is an abused term.
call me a fundamentalist.
MinorityReport
Senior member
Allaah hu akbaar
Who gives you a right to brand some moslems who drink.smoke/bang as non moslems ?
You do your business .. leave your moslem brothers at allah's mercy ... you have no right to brand anyone christian/moslem if they deviate from path you think are norms of that religion.
I don't want to come across as winking at Sin, but sometimes I think we put to much "I must do" in Salvation. The Gospel is simple but we want to add must do's to it. That just ruins the message. Take for example titheing, a real problem for a lot of Christians. We are commanded to give a portion to the Lord. Well when you're witnessing to a lost person that is really struggling financially and you tell'em you gotta' give 10% you lose them usually. You just explain the simple Gospel and explain that you come to Christ and give yourself. Put your life in His hands, your Faith in His finished work on the Cross and let Him lead, all the rest will come to pass. You don't have to stop your Sin to be saved. In fact you can't stop your Sin. In Him you find the strength that leads to righteousness.
But if you're sinning, and you DO have a true saving experience, you will recognize that sin and turn from it. If you're sinning, and you "get saved", but continue sinning, chances are good that experience was nothing more than an act.
And as far as tithing goes.....you can take that much farther than monetarily. Some would say you owe God 2.4 hours of every day? Oh that I spent that much time with him. Too often I even rush my Bible reading. But that 10%.....it MUST be given to God. You can't afford not to.
And as far as tithing goes.....you can take that much farther than monetarily. Some would say you owe God 2.4 hours of every day? Oh that I spent that much time with him. Too often I even rush my Bible reading. But that 10%.....it MUST be given to God. You can't afford not to.
But if you keep sinning, and ask for forgiveness each time?
Many would say Jesus only hears our prayers for forgiveness once. Like the person that goes out, gets drunk, and while he's puking his guts up, he's begging you "don't ever let me drink this much again". You go out the next night, and he does the same thing!
without salvation, there is little help determining what is right and wrong. When you are saved, your eyes are opened. You see that sin. You don't see it as Christ sees it, or we'd have all hung ourselves by now. But it IS easier to determine right and wrong (sin).
Sometimes it's hard to know what the right thing is to do; but once you know the right thing, it's hard NOT to do it.
And to the post before, where you "do good"? My friend, your eternity is not what you think.
Many would say Jesus only hears our prayers for forgiveness once. Like the person that goes out, gets drunk, and while he's puking his guts up, he's begging you "don't ever let me drink this much again". You go out the next night, and he does the same thing!
without salvation, there is little help determining what is right and wrong. When you are saved, your eyes are opened. You see that sin. You don't see it as Christ sees it, or we'd have all hung ourselves by now. But it IS easier to determine right and wrong (sin).
Sometimes it's hard to know what the right thing is to do; but once you know the right thing, it's hard NOT to do it.
And to the post before, where you "do good"? My friend, your eternity is not what you think.
Luke 17
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying,
I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
Here Jesus is teaching that we should forgive our "brother" if he trespasses aganist us even up to
7 x 70 times a day which I don't believe he literally meant 490 times but rather he was showing the
depth that we should forgive. If our "brother" says he repents we are told to forgive him flat out....
no option for us to wonder if he really repents or not but our response is to forgive just as God
forgives us without measure.
God never asks us to do more than he already has. Jesus is our example in all things as to
how he lived his life here on earth.
Everyone (even the saved) has weak spots in their lives that they have to deal with and
maybe it is drinking....maybe it is drugs....maybe it is anger....maybe it's sexual.......and
the list goes on and on. But God has promised us that we through his power can break
free from the bondage of these things that "hold us down". He wants his children (the saved) to
live the abudant life that is ours for the living through him, but some don't avail themselves
to the power he gives to live that abudant life and they struggle with the same sins all their lives.
They aren't living the abudant life that God has for them and even though they have a relationship
with God through Jesus's sacrifice on the cross they don't have the close relationship with God that
they could have had.
As far as "doing" goes, our submitting and being obedient to God keeps our relationship healthy
but good works are evidence of that living and thriving relationship but good works in themselves
won't get you into heaven. Anything that puts the emphasis on what "we do" and not what "God has done"
is putting the emphasis on the wrong thing.
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
I think you've got that wrong, Skoorb.
Nobody's perfect but no Christian would claim that they aren't.
Oh, you life a pious life? You follow every word of the Lord's teachings?
Well, what about the 16-year-old you went home with after that rave party where you were dropping X? Oh, that doesn't count, you asked for forgiveness.
And the dirty magazines you shoplifted from the 7-11 and then spanked it to? Forgiveness again.
And that guy you shot and lynched for having different beliefs? He just had it coming, it was God's Will.
Hey, according to Luke 17:3-5 you've still got 4 Get Out Of Hell Free cards left for today! Go nuts!
Seven times forgiveness each day.
Seven deadly sins to commit.
Sounds like a challenge to me. 😀 (Where's an "evil" smiley when you really need one?)
- M4H
GtPrOjEcTX
Lifer
How many times of forgiveness?
Matthew 18:21-34
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Throughout the Bible the number 7 represents the idea of a whole amount. Peter mistakes this "seven" to be a literal 7 times. Jesus then corrects him 70 times 7 (literally 490 times but meant to be taken not literally, just as as many times as asked to be forgiven, he/she will be)
The parable presents 3 figures, the king (God), one of his servants (man A, aka us), and one of the servant's servants (man B).
If Man A sins against God and repents he will be forgiven.
If Man B sins against Man A but Man A doesn't forgive him when asked for forgiveness, Man A sins.
Since Man A sins (again, but doesn't ask for forgiveness this time) God gives punishment.
(These are some more verses that conflict with the once saved always saved idea)
Matthew 18:21-34
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Throughout the Bible the number 7 represents the idea of a whole amount. Peter mistakes this "seven" to be a literal 7 times. Jesus then corrects him 70 times 7 (literally 490 times but meant to be taken not literally, just as as many times as asked to be forgiven, he/she will be)
The parable presents 3 figures, the king (God), one of his servants (man A, aka us), and one of the servant's servants (man B).
If Man A sins against God and repents he will be forgiven.
If Man B sins against Man A but Man A doesn't forgive him when asked for forgiveness, Man A sins.
Since Man A sins (again, but doesn't ask for forgiveness this time) God gives punishment.
(These are some more verses that conflict with the once saved always saved idea)
JupiterJones
Senior member
somebody explain it to me, preferrably a christian that does one of these things!
Being a Christian means that one has been forgiven of sin, not that one never sins. Think of a church as a group of people who admit that they cannot live sinless lives. The Bible teaches that anyone who says they are without sin is a liar. Any Christian will tell you that they sin everyday. The fact that it is impossible to live sinless demonstrates our need for Salvation.
BTW, a hyprocrite is someone who puts forward a false image of virtue. A Christian readily admits that he sins daily.
Being a Christian means that one has been forgiven of sin, not that one never sins. Think of a church as a group of people who admit that they cannot live sinless lives. The Bible teaches that anyone who says they are without sin is a liar. Any Christian will tell you that they sin everyday. The fact that it is impossible to live sinless demonstrates our need for Salvation.
BTW, a hyprocrite is someone who puts forward a false image of virtue. A Christian readily admits that he sins daily.
GtPrOjEcTX
Lifer
I'm not just conflicting with you, but which numerous people that say "all Christians sin daily". I know I DO sin but I don't sin every single day. Just a minute point.
JupiterJones
Senior member
I'm not just conflicting with you, but which numerous people that say "all Christians sin daily". I know I DO sin but I don't sin every single day. Just a minute point.
A sin consists in doing, saying, thinking or imagining anything which does not conform perfectly with the mind and law of God . The slightest outward or inward departure from complete agreement with God's revealed will and character is a sin.
It is also sin to break God's law by omitting to do what He requires.
I do not believe it is possible to go a day without sinning. In fact, I can't imagine going an hour without sinning.
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." - Isaiah 64:6
According to Isaiah, the presence of sin has contaminated us so badly, that even the good we do is considered by God to be as "filthy rags".
A sin consists in doing, saying, thinking or imagining anything which does not conform perfectly with the mind and law of God . The slightest outward or inward departure from complete agreement with God's revealed will and character is a sin.
It is also sin to break God's law by omitting to do what He requires.
I do not believe it is possible to go a day without sinning. In fact, I can't imagine going an hour without sinning.
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." - Isaiah 64:6
According to Isaiah, the presence of sin has contaminated us so badly, that even the good we do is considered by God to be as "filthy rags".
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