Hydrogen Cars

[Klandestine]

and then by regulating pressure that will catalyze the reaction to release more hydrogen

 

[Mandos]

That car is suhweeettt!

 

[rgwalt]

Originally posted by: MySoS

Originally posted by: InterpolAgent
The car isn't half bad imho...reminds me of the light bike in Tron. Even though hydrogen would be a cleaner fuel source, it isn't really an effective substitute.
1. It takes tons of power just too extract (produce) hydrogen. So we'd probably use twice as much fossil fuels just to produce hydrogen.
2. It's highly volatile. So getting into a car wreck would be like dring dynamite.
3. There aren't any effective ways to contain it quite yet. It leaks from all the containers currently made to hold it.
I was doing some research to alternative energies...

1. A lot of research is going into this, and people are close to devloping way to produce hydrogen cleanly.
2. They have made containers which can withstand any damage.
3. Hydrogen placed into a solid and liquid state do not leek.

1. You cannot get around thermodynamics. It takes energy to produce hydrogen from water, and lots of it. You can also produce hydrogen from hydrocarbons, but then what is the point?
2. Nothing can withstand any damage.
3. Keeping hydrogen in a liquid or solid state is difficult. Carbon zeolites or nano structures have promise, but we aren't there yet.

Hydrogen is not the automobile fuel of the future. Be thinking electric for clean cars.

R

 

[bigdog1218]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: MySoS

Originally posted by: InterpolAgent
The car isn't half bad imho...reminds me of the light bike in Tron. Even though hydrogen would be a cleaner fuel source, it isn't really an effective substitute.
1. It takes tons of power just too extract (produce) hydrogen. So we'd probably use twice as much fossil fuels just to produce hydrogen.
2. It's highly volatile. So getting into a car wreck would be like dring dynamite.
3. There aren't any effective ways to contain it quite yet. It leaks from all the containers currently made to hold it.
I was doing some research to alternative energies...

1. A lot of research is going into this, and people are close to devloping way to produce hydrogen cleanly.
2. They have made containers which can withstand any damage.
3. Hydrogen placed into a solid and liquid state do not leek.

1. You produce hydrogen through electrolysis of water or burning natural gas. Unless people are willing to commit to nuke plants it doesn't get any cleaner.
2. 'any damage' -- sure, but they'll be huge and/or heave
3. how are you going to get hydrogen into a solid state? Liquitd hydrogen is rediculously cold. what you need is some sort of slurry that keeps the hydrogen contained. I'd heard that chrysler was working on something a few years back, but I haven't heard any more, so who knows. Hydrogen WILL leak like crazy, you have no clue how hard it is to contain that stuff.

I can't believe how stupid people are. Why will hydrogen leak, show some scientific proof as to why hydrogen would leak out of its tanks. I guess the hydrogen detector in my lab is broken because none of my hydrogen tanks or lines leak.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
It's been like 20 years, but so what if you have liquid hydrogen... it's going to leak. Suppose you have a container with a volume of 1 gallon. Fill it with liquid hydrogen. Good. Now, use half of the hydrogen. What's filling the container? You've either got 1/2 a gallon of empty space, or 1/2 a gallon of hydrogen gas. IIRC, it's hydrogen gas.

What do you mean by fibers that hold a "great deal" of hydrogen?
A billion hydrogen atoms/molecules? That's a "great deal", until you compare it to the volume of hydrogen that you're going to need to fuel a vehicle.

hydride storage. only 3-5% by weight right now, but they're pretty dense materials and hydrogen is light, so it's better than it sounds. The hydrogen is bonded to the hydride, so it's not under high pressure.

 

[Goosemaster]

To remain as a liquid, Hydrogen requires a great deal of energy to power compressors and heat engines to keep it cool.

IE.....too much energy to do so little.

 

[rgwalt]

Forget the storage and safety issues for a minute... what it comes down to is this. Hydrogen is an energy transportation medium, not an energy source. You cannot get around thermodynamics, and you cannot use hydrogen as an energy source. There may be chemical reactions that produce hydrogen, such as dumping sodium metal into water, but they are not renewable resources. I don't know much about biological production of hydrogen, so I probably shouldn't say anything, but it is in the end just a form of solar power. The efficiency and scalability is what I would question.

Hydrogen isn't going to power our cars in the future. I may end up eating my words, but that is my prediction.

R

 

[MySoS]

Originally posted by: rgwalt

Originally posted by: MySoS

Originally posted by: InterpolAgent
The car isn't half bad imho...reminds me of the light bike in Tron. Even though hydrogen would be a cleaner fuel source, it isn't really an effective substitute.
1. It takes tons of power just too extract (produce) hydrogen. So we'd probably use twice as much fossil fuels just to produce hydrogen.
2. It's highly volatile. So getting into a car wreck would be like dring dynamite.
3. There aren't any effective ways to contain it quite yet. It leaks from all the containers currently made to hold it.
I was doing some research to alternative energies...

1. A lot of research is going into this, and people are close to devloping way to produce hydrogen cleanly.
2. They have made containers which can withstand any damage.
3. Hydrogen placed into a solid and liquid state do not leek.

1. You cannot get around thermodynamics. It takes energy to produce hydrogen from water, and lots of it. You can also produce hydrogen from hydrocarbons, but then what is the point?
2. Nothing can withstand any damage.
3. Keeping hydrogen in a liquid or solid state is difficult. Carbon zeolites or nano structures have promise, but we aren't there yet.

Hydrogen is not the automobile fuel of the future. Be thinking electric for clean cars.

R

1. You are ignoring the FACT that there are clean biological and chemical ways to produce hydrogen. There are organism which naturally produce hydrogen gas by there exsistance.
2. Yes there are things which can withstand resonable damage.
3. It is not as difficult as you think.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: rgwalt
Forget the storage and safety issues for a minute... what it comes down to is this. Hydrogen is an energy transportation medium, not an energy source. You cannot get around thermodynamics, and you cannot use hydrogen as an energy source. There may be chemical reactions that produce hydrogen, such as dumping sodium metal into water, but they are not renewable resources. I don't know much about biological production of hydrogen, so I probably shouldn't say anything, but it is in the end just a form of solar power. The efficiency and scalability is what I would question.

Hydrogen isn't going to power our cars in the future. I may end up eating my words, but that is my prediction.

R

Hydrogen is already powering our cars. They already have a modified hummer and some other car that run on it. However it isn't the fuel cell it is the modified internal combustion engine, so you can only go about 80miles with it before having to refuel.

-Kevin

 

[Rallispec]

Originally posted by: MySoS

Originally posted by: rgwalt

Originally posted by: MySoS

Originally posted by: InterpolAgent
The car isn't half bad imho...reminds me of the light bike in Tron. Even though hydrogen would be a cleaner fuel source, it isn't really an effective substitute.
1. It takes tons of power just too extract (produce) hydrogen. So we'd probably use twice as much fossil fuels just to produce hydrogen.
2. It's highly volatile. So getting into a car wreck would be like dring dynamite.
3. There aren't any effective ways to contain it quite yet. It leaks from all the containers currently made to hold it.
I was doing some research to alternative energies...

1. A lot of research is going into this, and people are close to devloping way to produce hydrogen cleanly.
2. They have made containers which can withstand any damage.
3. Hydrogen placed into a solid and liquid state do not leek.

1. You cannot get around thermodynamics. It takes energy to produce hydrogen from water, and lots of it. You can also produce hydrogen from hydrocarbons, but then what is the point?
2. Nothing can withstand any damage.
3. Keeping hydrogen in a liquid or solid state is difficult. Carbon zeolites or nano structures have promise, but we aren't there yet.

Hydrogen is not the automobile fuel of the future. Be thinking electric for clean cars.

R

1. You are ignoring the FACT that there are clean biological and chemical ways to produce hydrogen. There are organism which naturally produce hydrogen gas by there exsistance.
2. Yes there are things which can withstand resonable damage.
3. It is not as difficult as you think.

1) can you produce it cheaply in mass quantities?
2 + 3) again, can you make it cost effective?

right now hydrogen power just isnt economical. It takes more power to produc hyrdrogen than it is capable or storing - and its expensive on top of that.

I think we'll see high density lithium ion batterys as power storage method way before we see fuel cells.

In fact I'd be willing to be that Battery technology will have developed enough within 5 years to make bring it into the realm of practicallity.