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'Hundreds Will Die' at Goldman Sachs, Letters Warn

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Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: jman19

I never disagreed that the people not at the top got screwed on this one... you can stop now if you're not going to recognize my point and just bold the same crap again and again.

If your point is that you think you can lay the blame soley on the Montana boy who was CEO your sorley mistaken. Goldman Sachs sold this to the BoD, lock stock and barrel and the stockholders had NO say about it.

They should ALL be doing time IMO, but you apparently would rather try to lay the blame on him??? Whatever.

It's obvious to me the whole damn system is broken if one man's greed/ambition can affect so many people.

Keep on missing it buddy. Where did I say I lay ALL of the blame on him? My point was that he is the most to blame, and that GS was doing what they were hired to do - make the executives lots of money. I didn't say that was ethical or fair.

No, they weren't hired to make the executives a lot of money. They were hired for their professional expertise and they couldn't see the bust in the internet/telecomunications industry staring them in the face. I doubt they even gave them one good piece of advice.

They were motivated by the commisions they recieved when Montana P&L sold off all it's core assets. Their was NO good business judgement involved and Goldman Sachs won't even discuss the case. SLEAZY bastatages.

You live in funny world, where the poor, poor management of Montana were duped in to making millions at the expense of others... :laugh:

I'm not surprised an asshole such as yourself would think this was funny. I hope you get yours and the sooner the better AFAIC. I'd give you the middle finger if we were face to face and see how funny you thought that was. Consider yourself flipped off.

I guess losing all of that money pissed you off, huh?

Yeah, I'm a real asshole because I questioned why people here weren't giving the CEO of said company a hard time...

BTW, I don't think what happened to the shareholders and workers of Montana was funny at all - I was laughing at your ignornace.

Of course I blame the CEO. They are part of the problem with their overpaid salaries and golden parachutes. He helped sell and push the idea but he built a $3million dollar house, didn't he. I blame sleazy investment bakers even more. They do this crap ALL the time and get rich doing it.

I find it more then ironic that so many loyal, hard working people can work hard for a company all their lives and then have a bunch of sleazy, idot, CEO's and investment bankers rip them off like that. That's my whole point, they shouldn't be able to do it so easily.

The system is broken/corrputed.... perhaps beyond repair.
 
Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
Originally posted by: jman19
Al Qaeda USA eh?

Actually, no. I think Al Qaeda would just go ahead to commit the slaughter without any warning and then claim credit for it afterwards.

I was just referring to the A.Q.U.S.A. signature, but I agree that it is probably just some fringe group trying to scare people...
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: jman19
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: jman19

I never disagreed that the people not at the top got screwed on this one... you can stop now if you're not going to recognize my point and just bold the same crap again and again.

If your point is that you think you can lay the blame soley on the Montana boy who was CEO your sorley mistaken. Goldman Sachs sold this to the BoD, lock stock and barrel and the stockholders had NO say about it.

They should ALL be doing time IMO, but you apparently would rather try to lay the blame on him??? Whatever.

It's obvious to me the whole damn system is broken if one man's greed/ambition can affect so many people.

Keep on missing it buddy. Where did I say I lay ALL of the blame on him? My point was that he is the most to blame, and that GS was doing what they were hired to do - make the executives lots of money. I didn't say that was ethical or fair.

No, they weren't hired to make the executives a lot of money. They were hired for their professional expertise and they couldn't see the bust in the internet/telecomunications industry staring them in the face. I doubt they even gave them one good piece of advice.

They were motivated by the commisions they recieved when Montana P&L sold off all it's core assets. Their was NO good business judgement involved and Goldman Sachs won't even discuss the case. SLEAZY bastatages.

You live in funny world, where the poor, poor management of Montana were duped in to making millions at the expense of others... :laugh:

I'm not surprised an asshole such as yourself would think this was funny. I hope you get yours and the sooner the better AFAIC. I'd give you the middle finger if we were face to face and see how funny you thought that was. Consider yourself flipped off.

I guess losing all of that money pissed you off, huh?

Yeah, I'm a real asshole because I questioned why people here weren't giving the CEO of said company a hard time...

BTW, I don't think what happened to the shareholders and workers of Montana was funny at all - I was laughing at your ignornace.

IIRC, Goldman Sachs created and pushed the scheme, and the CEO agreed. That's how they make a lot of their money - finding ways for the wealthy to screw others, and get a cut. That's how their tax avoidance scheme business works too, find ways for the wealthiest Americans to escape taxes by 'pushing the envelope', sometimes crossing the line - for example, finding ways for people who sell companies for tens of millions to pay *zero* tax on the gain with bogus tax shelters - and get a cut of the 'tax savings' we pay for.

I recommend reading David Cay Johnston's book for info on how abusive the scams are.

From what I read, the CEO put together the scheme and needed some legitimacy to push the scheme past the board - enter GS, who was more than happy to collect a big fat paycheck.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
A voice of ideologyand ignorance speaks.

Maybe you should check this or thissbefore spouting your 'hollow claims'.

One pending lawsuit? Whatever happened to "again and again and again"? That's three right there, with assumed guilt.

Your hyperbole is far more indicative of ideology and ignorance than my skepticism.
 
Originally posted by: jman19

From what I read, the CEO put together the scheme and needed some legitimacy to push the scheme past the board - enter GS, the sleazy bastardswho were more than happy to collect a big fat paycheck for their "expert" advice..

Fixed
 
One of the most recognized national brokerage firms, Utah-based Goldman Sachs has been named in a number of lawsuits alleging securities and investment fraud. Goldman Sachs recently paid $1.6 million because it maintained insufficient email records, a major violation of the Securities and Exchange Commission's record-keeping regulations.

Goldman Sachs also settled a lawsuit with the Attorney General of the State of New York for over $100 million over allegations that firm analysts worked with investment bankers to boost stocks in an effort to gain underwriting and banking business. The firm has also been accused of manipulating initial public offerings (IPOs) of stocks.

Stocks Goldman Sachs may have manipulated include the following:

360 Networks
Amazon
Crosswave Communications
Crown Castle
Equinix
Exodus
GeneProt
StorageNetworks
Ventro
WebEx
Winstar Communications
WorldCom
http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Topic=1225

Fresh off a $95 million settlement with Morgan Stanley, the liquidators of General American are adding Goldman Sachs to its list of defendants.

The liquidators filed an amended lawsuit Tuesday, seeking $3 billion in punitive damages from Goldman Sachs over investment bank's actions as a potential creditor and an adviser to insurer General American on its sale to Metropolitan Life Insurance Co.

The lawsuit claims Goldman Sachs failed to provide promised credit of up to $2 billion when General American suffered a liquidity crisis; undervalued General American by up to $700 million when the investment bank said MetLife's offer of $1.2 billion for the insurance company's assets was fair; and failed to disclose that MetLife was a Goldman Sachs client before the investment bank gave its opinion on the sale.
http://findarticles.com/p/arti..._20070214/ai_n17222855
Goldman, Sachs & Company has been barred from acting as a financial adviser in any California treasury or authority transaction because of a legal dispute with the state, the state Treasurer's office disclosed today.

In a letter dated Nov. 30, the deputy state treasurer, L. Steven Spears, said Goldman, Sachs would not be permitted to act as financial adviser until the litigation is resolved. The letter was addressed to a Goldman, Sachs vice president, Ed Burdett.

Goldman, Sachs and the state have been negotiating to settle a lawsuit that contends the firm failed to fully disclose its role in an ill-fated hospital deal financed with tax-exempt debt through the California Statewide Communities Development Authority.

The deal involved the sale of the West Valley Hospital Medical Center and the Sherman Oaks Community Hospital and Health Center. The lawsuit seeks about $586 million from the firm.

Goldman, Sachs officials could not be reached for comment,
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F93AA15752C0A960958260

They make their money the "old fashioned way", they cheat, lie, and whore for it.
 
Goldman Sachs knew as early as 2000 that Montana Power's divestiture plan was a bad idea. The lawsuit quotes an e-mail from Lee Michael to Michael Munson, both of Goldman, Sachs, describing the Montana Power situation:

"This is going from bad to worse - a complete cock up in marketing is happening before our very eyes. If I had a gun I would now blow my brains out we are whistling in the wind - get professional advice if all you want to do is to go and screw it up all on your own...."

Later, in the same e-mail string, Michael said, "At least we're not on the utility team for this crap. I wouldn't want to sell this company in several pieces."

Both Goldman, Sachs and Milbank Tweed knew that Montana Power was required to give notice and obtain the consent of two-thirds of its shareholders to sell its assets, but they encouraged Montana Power "to ignore these requirements to have the sales occur more quickly and without public scrutiny," the complaint said.

The lawsuit accuses Goldman, Sachs of "playing both ends against the middle." At the same time Goldman Sachs was advising Montana Power to sell its energy assets, it had formed separate partnerships with other businesses to buy "the very type of generating assets that Montana Power was selling," the complaint said.

This is the second major lawsuit filed over the breakup of Montana Power. A $3 billion class-action lawsuit filed in 2001 by investors against Montana Power remains active in federal court.
Suit accuses 2 firms of Montana Power Co plot
 
Originally posted by: dmens

Idiot, those links don't even work. You've resorted to posting links from class action invitations and regurgitating information on the same lawsuit over and over again. Face it, all your accusations are groundless.

Do a google search for Goldman Sachs lawsuits. There are too many links to bother listing and I'm done wasting my time arguing with an obvious ignorant, sleazy troll. 😛
 
Originally posted by: dmens
Originally posted by: Craig234
A voice of ideologyand ignorance speaks.

Maybe you should check this or thissbefore spouting your 'hollow claims'.

One pending lawsuit? Whatever happened to "again and again and again"? That's three right there, with assumed guilt.

Your hyperbole is far more indicative of ideology and ignorance than my skepticism.

I'll type slowly for you because you have real problems reading.

I said that I have found that Goldman Sachs is involved when I see financial scams again and again and again. Get it? That refers to different scams.

Then I posted two examples, one of which was the Montana energy company. About the Montana energy company, you said if it were real, there would be 'lawsuits flying'.

I disagreed, but also mentioned that in contradiction to your claim, there ARE lawsuits for it, and cited two major lawsuits, one for billions.

You then responded to the post about two lawsuits by:

1. Saying it was only one, when the very text I quoted and you did not include said SECOND MAJOR LAWSUIT, and

2. You attributed my "again and again and again" comment that was about GS scandals to the number of lawsuits, somehow.

Try to pay attention?
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Do a google search for Goldman Sachs lawsuits. There are too many links to bother listing and I'm done wasting my time arguing with an obvious ignorant, sleazy troll. 😛

Here's a clue, just because a lawsuit is filed, doesn't mean the charges are substantiated, no matter how much you assume guilt. I also noticed "charges dismissed" in quite a few of the links. The fact you take random google search results to justify your prejudices is indicative of serious mental deficiencies.

Please find some real cases of proven guilt so you don't look like a complete idiot.
 
Originally posted by: jman19
From what I read, the CEO put together the scheme and needed some legitimacy to push the scheme past the board - enter GS, who was more than happy to collect a big fat paycheck.

As early as the mid-1990s, Goldman Sachs officials made presentations advising Montana Power officials to sell its generation assets, the hydroelectric dams that had provided the state with cheap power since the early part of the last century, and its more recently built coal-fired power plants, the new lawsuit said.

"During this time period, all the assets of Montana Power were potentially on the table for sale, and Goldman, Sachs was advising Montana Power that there was time pressure to dispose of these assets, especially generation assets, as more and more utilities were dumping similar assets into the market place," the complaint said. "The theory perpetrated by Goldman, Sachs and Gannon, in particular, was that a window of opportunity presented itself and if Montana Power did not dispose of its generation assets, it would potentially fail."

Although there was initial resistance among MPC officials to the sale of the core assets, it "was overcome by the greed of the potential for Montana Power to become a high-flying telecommunications company," the lawsuit said.

The investment bank and law firm concealed the profound implications such a move would have on customers, employees, creditors and shareholders and hid "the enormous financial gains" the two New York businesses stood to make.

Neither Goldman Sachs nor Milbank, Tweed responded to an attempt by the Lee Newspapers State Bureau to get a response, nor did Touch America.

Gannon and the two New York firms used the 1997 deregulation "as part of their scheme to divest Montana Power from its energy assets," the lawsuit said. The 1997 Legislature passed an electric deregulation bill pushed by the company, and Gov. Marc Racicot signed it into law.

The law was touted as a move to provide wholesale and retail customers with a choice of where they bought their electricity, the complaint said. In reality, however, the New York firms and Gannon and others "intended to use the legislation to facilitate the already developed plan to divest the energy assets, and this was concealed from the customers, employees, creditors, shareholders and the public," the complaint said.

Later in 1997, Montana Power announced it would sell its dams and coal-fired plants. The announcement shocked and angered Montanans.

"Within a mere three-year period of time, all under the advice of Goldman, Sachs and Milbank, Tweed, Montana Power disposed of all of its energy assets, which caused the ultimate downfall of Montana Power," the complaint said. "During this time, Goldman, Sachs earned $20 million in fees and Milbank, Tweed also earned millions of dollars in fees."

Goldman Sachs knew as early as 2000 that Montana Power's divestiture plan was a bad idea. The lawsuit quotes an e-mail from Lee Michael to Michael Munson, both of Goldman Sachs, describing the Montana Power situation:

"This is going from bad to worse - a complete cock up in marketing is happening before our very eyes. If I had a gun I would now blow my brains out - we are whistling in the wind - why get professional advice if all you want to do is to go and screw it up all on your own ... ."

Later, in the same e-mail string, Michael said, "At least we're not on the utility team for this crap. I wouldn't want to sell this company in several pieces."

Both Goldman Sachs and Milbank, Tweed knew that Montana Power was required to give notice and obtain the consent of two-thirds of its shareholders to sell its assets, but they encouraged Montana Power "to ignore these requirements to have the sales occur more quickly and without public scrutiny," the complaint said.

What's more, the lawsuit accused Goldman Sachs of "playing both ends against the middle." At the same time Goldman Sachs was advising Montana Power to sell its energy assets, it had formed separate partnerships with other businesses to buy "the very type of generating assets that Montana Power was selling," the complaint said.

The lawsuit accused the two New York firms of making false and misleading statements to Montana Power and concealing other information about selling its energy assets.

Link
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
I'll type slowly for you because you have real problems reading.

I said that I have found that Goldman Sachs is involved when I see financial scams again and again and again. Get it? That refers to different scams.

Then I posted two examples, one of which was the Montana energy company. About the Montana energy company, you said if it were real, there would be 'lawsuits flying'.

I disagreed, but also mentioned that in contradiction to your claim, there ARE lawsuits for it, and cited two major lawsuits, one for billions.

You then responded to the post about two lawsuits by:

1. Saying it was only one, when the very text I quoted and you did not include said SECOND MAJOR LAWSUIT, and

2. You attributed my "again and again and again" comment that was about GS scandals to the number of lawsuits, somehow.

Try to pay attention?

You posted two links, both of them regarding Montana Power. It's the same friggin thing. Did you even read the two "examples" before you posted them?

There's one lawsuit for one scam you quoted, and yet you insinuate that Goldman Sachs is involved in multiple scams, with assumed guilt. I really don't give a hoot about Goldman Sachs, but I thought this tendency of assumed guilt simply because the company in question deals with finances was quite amusing. All this bitch and whine and there's not a single solid instance of proven guilt.

I'm not going to bother posting on this thread any more, it is a waste of time.
 
Originally posted by: dmens
You posted two links, both of them regarding Montana Power. It's the same friggin lawsuit. Did you even read the two "examples" before you posted them?

Yes, because they were *responding to the post saying there had been no lawsuits about Montana Power, to show there were lawsuits*.

I'm not going to bother posting on this thread any more, it is a waste of time.

We agree that your posting to the thread has been a waste of time.
 
I couldn't help it, but "we agree"? Who is "we"? Aren't you the popular one. *NOT!*

Oh, I said "lawsuits would have been flying". That's plural, in response to your "again and again and again" line. I already saw your drumbeating on the Montana Power lawsuit, and it is still pending, so no guilt is proven.

Alright, really done now.
 
Originally posted by: dmens
I couldn't help it, but "we agree"? Who is "we"? Aren't you the popular one. *NOT!*

Uh, "we" is you and me. You said something and I agreed, hence, "we agree".

Your reading issues are even worse than I thought.

Oh, I said "lawsuits would have been flying". That's plural, in response to your "again and again and again" line. I already saw your drumbeating on the Montana Power lawsuit, and it is still pending, so no guilt is proven.

I referred you to my post, which mentioned the Montana Power lawsuit. You responded that if it were not just "hollow claims", then there would be lawsuits flying.

Since your post responded to my post, it implied you were referring to the content of my post that I had referred you to.

If you were referring to my earlier claim about there being many scandals I've seen Goldman Sachs in, you should have said that, instead of what you did say.

As for your clarification that you were referring to the many scandals, if you can't read the many examples others have also posted for your benefit, then what is there left to say.
 
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: jman19
From what I read, the CEO put together the scheme and needed some legitimacy to push the scheme past the board - enter GS, who was more than happy to collect a big fat paycheck.

As early as the mid-1990s, Goldman Sachs officials made presentations advising Montana Power officials to sell its generation assets, the hydroelectric dams that had provided the state with cheap power since the early part of the last century, and its more recently built coal-fired power plants, the new lawsuit said.

"During this time period, all the assets of Montana Power were potentially on the table for sale, and Goldman, Sachs was advising Montana Power that there was time pressure to dispose of these assets, especially generation assets, as more and more utilities were dumping similar assets into the market place," the complaint said. "The theory perpetrated by Goldman, Sachs and Gannon, in particular, was that a window of opportunity presented itself and if Montana Power did not dispose of its generation assets, it would potentially fail."

Although there was initial resistance among MPC officials to the sale of the core assets, it "was overcome by the greed of the potential for Montana Power to become a high-flying telecommunications company," the lawsuit said.

The investment bank and law firm concealed the profound implications such a move would have on customers, employees, creditors and shareholders and hid "the enormous financial gains" the two New York businesses stood to make.

Neither Goldman Sachs nor Milbank, Tweed responded to an attempt by the Lee Newspapers State Bureau to get a response, nor did Touch America.

Gannon and the two New York firms used the 1997 deregulation "as part of their scheme to divest Montana Power from its energy assets," the lawsuit said. The 1997 Legislature passed an electric deregulation bill pushed by the company, and Gov. Marc Racicot signed it into law.

The law was touted as a move to provide wholesale and retail customers with a choice of where they bought their electricity, the complaint said. In reality, however, the New York firms and Gannon and others "intended to use the legislation to facilitate the already developed plan to divest the energy assets, and this was concealed from the customers, employees, creditors, shareholders and the public," the complaint said.

Later in 1997, Montana Power announced it would sell its dams and coal-fired plants. The announcement shocked and angered Montanans.

"Within a mere three-year period of time, all under the advice of Goldman, Sachs and Milbank, Tweed, Montana Power disposed of all of its energy assets, which caused the ultimate downfall of Montana Power," the complaint said. "During this time, Goldman, Sachs earned $20 million in fees and Milbank, Tweed also earned millions of dollars in fees."

Goldman Sachs knew as early as 2000 that Montana Power's divestiture plan was a bad idea. The lawsuit quotes an e-mail from Lee Michael to Michael Munson, both of Goldman Sachs, describing the Montana Power situation:

"This is going from bad to worse - a complete cock up in marketing is happening before our very eyes. If I had a gun I would now blow my brains out - we are whistling in the wind - why get professional advice if all you want to do is to go and screw it up all on your own ... ."

Later, in the same e-mail string, Michael said, "At least we're not on the utility team for this crap. I wouldn't want to sell this company in several pieces."

Both Goldman Sachs and Milbank, Tweed knew that Montana Power was required to give notice and obtain the consent of two-thirds of its shareholders to sell its assets, but they encouraged Montana Power "to ignore these requirements to have the sales occur more quickly and without public scrutiny," the complaint said.

What's more, the lawsuit accused Goldman Sachs of "playing both ends against the middle." At the same time Goldman Sachs was advising Montana Power to sell its energy assets, it had formed separate partnerships with other businesses to buy "the very type of generating assets that Montana Power was selling," the complaint said.

The lawsuit accused the two New York firms of making false and misleading statements to Montana Power and concealing other information about selling its energy assets.

Link

Good job ONLY bolding the parts that support your point of view.

You didn't even quote the whole article!

Also sued were 10 unnamed "John Doe" defendants, presumably former Montana Power Co. executives, including former Chief Executive Officer Bob Gannon, who's mentioned throughout the complaint.

The law was touted as a move to provide wholesale and retail customers with a choice of where they bought their electricity, the complaint said. In reality, however, the New York firms and Gannon and others "intended to use the legislation to facilitate the already developed plan to divest the energy assets, and this was concealed from the customers, employees, creditors, shareholders and the public," the complaint said.

Gannon and the two New York firms used the 1997 deregulation "as part of their scheme to divest Montana Power from its energy assets," the lawsuit said. The 1997 Legislature passed an electric deregulation bill pushed by the company, and Gov. Marc Racicot signed it into law.

I'm not defending GS - I'm pointing out that the CEO of Montana is JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME OR MORESO. Hiring a firm that is being paid on the sale of assets is letting the fox guard the henhouse. GS is low for this, as are the executives of Montana.
 
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