Human Rights Watch might have a point about Gitmo

[BaliBabyDoc]

CNN

"Two Saudis and one Yemeni, each located in Camp 1, were found unresponsive and not breathing in their cells by guards," said a statement issued by Joint Task Force-Guantanamo.

"Medical teams responded quickly and all three detainees were provided immediate emergency medical treatment in attempts to revive them. The three detainees were pronounced dead by a physician after all lifesaving measures had been exhausted."

I guess it's good that we at least given them a human right-to-life.:roll:

"The remains of the deceased detainees are being treated with the utmost respect. A cultural adviser is assisting the Joint Task Force to ensure that the remains are handled in a culturally and religiously appropriate manner," the statement said.

A little respect (like maybe following basic principles of human rights) might have helped . . . before they were dead.

You cannot defend "liberty" by arbitrarily denying it to others. It really is a shame that merely 6 years of the Bush Regime was enough to erase our nation's well-deserved reputation as a beacon of human rights.

 

[firewall]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It really is a shame that merely 6 years of the Bush Regime was enough to erase our nation's well-deserved reputation as a beacon of human rights.

QFT!

 

[Braznor]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
CNN

"Two Saudis and one Yemeni, each located in Camp 1, were found unresponsive and not breathing in their cells by guards," said a statement issued by Joint Task Force-Guantanamo.

"Medical teams responded quickly and all three detainees were provided immediate emergency medical treatment in attempts to revive them. The three detainees were pronounced dead by a physician after all lifesaving measures had been exhausted."

I guess it's good that we at least given them a human right-to-life.:roll:

"The remains of the deceased detainees are being treated with the utmost respect. A cultural adviser is assisting the Joint Task Force to ensure that the remains are handled in a culturally and religiously appropriate manner," the statement said.

A little respect (like maybe following basic principles of human rights) might have helped . . . before they were dead.

You cannot defend "liberty" by arbitrarily denying it to others. It really is a shame that merely 6 years of the Bush Regime was enough to erase our nation's well-deserved reputation as a beacon of human rights.

Prisoners committing suicide is not a human rights violation. They killed themselves. If they were tortured to death, that is a human right violation.

 

[Aisengard]

Or if they were mentally tortured, which led to suicide. Remember, mental torture is as bad, or even worse than physical torture.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
You cannot defend "liberty" by arbitrarily denying it to others. It really is a shame that merely 6 years of the Bush Regime was enough to erase our nation's well-deserved reputation as a beacon of human rights.

While I agree wholeheartedly that Gitmo is a huge blemish on our country's image around the world, I don't suspect that anyone is there arbitrarily. They've done something serious enough to warrant ending up there. And yet, if there are truly allegations of terrorism against each prisoner in Gitmo, they should be given some sort of trial. Hell, even Saddam gets a trial. But indefinite arrest and imprisonment (and probably torture) without charges is not the American way.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It really is a shame that merely 6 years of the Bush Regime was enough to erase our nation's well-deserved reputation as a beacon of human rights.

Yep, he completely erased it didnt he. No stains whatsoever in our countries history till ole Bush came into office.

I suppose you blame him for your personal failures in life too dont you. Much easier to blame Bush. I personally blame Bush for my lawn growing. If it wasnt for that damned Bush I wouldnt have to mow my yard!
Damn you Bush, damn you.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It really is a shame that merely 6 years of the Bush Regime was enough to erase our nation's well-deserved reputation as a beacon of human rights.

Yep, he completely erased it didnt he. No stains whatsoever in our countries history till ole Bush came into office.

I suppose you blame him for your personal failures in life too dont you. Much easier to blame Bush. I personally blame Bush for my lawn growing. If it wasnt for that damned Bush I wouldnt have to mow my yard!
Damn you Bush, damn you.

Another 'black or white' response.

Yes there were stains on US human rights record but notihng in comparison to the massive scale and blatant disregard that has occured in the last 5 years. Gitmo being the top of the heap. Then there's Abu Gharib, renditions etc. And it doesn't matter who else does it - it is wrong in every case.

While it is nonsenical to even contemplate that Bush is responsible for my lawn growing, it was his administration that stated that the Geneva Accord did not apply in these case. They had to make that statement because under US law violations of the Geneva Accord are a very serious offense. Their statement gives them the curtain to hide behind.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
While it is nonsenical to even contemplate that Bush is responsible for my lawn growing, it was his administration that stated that the Geneva Accord did not apply in these case. They had to make that statement because under US law violations of the Geneva Accord are a very serious offense. Their statement gives them the curtain to hide behind.

First, let me state that I deplore the detainment without trial that is going on here and anywhere. Such detainment is contrary to justice, and I'm a firm believer that you can never do good by doing wrong to get there.

That said, I don't believe that these camps violate the Geneva Conventions. Having read the pertinent portions, I was shocked at the treatment of POWs that would be OK under the Conventions. IIRC, the Conventions allow detainment of anyone believed to have participated in an armed conflict both without trial and without contact with the outside world. All this until the end of armed conflict, which, in this case, is a completely arbitrary date as yet unnamed. Clearly, the Conventions need a good updating and/or a thorough re-writing.

 

[miketheidiot]

I mourn the death of the rule of law, which is really what gitmo amounts too.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Or if they were mentally tortured, which led to suicide. Remember, mental torture is as bad, or even worse than physical torture.

exactly, physical scars heal, mental ones never heal

 

[Czar]

ok..... a big wtf?!?!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5068606.stm

'Creative'

Rear Adm Harris said he did not believe the men had killed themselves out of despair.

"They are smart. They are creative, they are committed," he said.

"They have no regard for life, either ours or their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us."

delusional or what

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
You cannot defend "liberty" by arbitrarily denying it to others. It really is a shame that merely 6 years of the Bush Regime was enough to erase our nation's well-deserved reputation as a beacon of human rights.

While I agree wholeheartedly that Gitmo is a huge blemish on our country's image around the world, I don't suspect that anyone is there arbitrarily. They've done something serious enough to warrant ending up there. And yet, if there are truly allegations of terrorism against each prisoner in Gitmo, they should be given some sort of trial. Hell, even Saddam gets a trial. But indefinite arrest and imprisonment (and probably torture) without charges is not the American way.

The "evidence" that these people have done anything is so flimsy that only a few have been accused of anything other than being an "enemy combatant" which means whatever the Bush junta wants on a given week.

There are several Chinese being held in Gitmo solely b/c the Bush Regime doesn't know where to send them. They know they will be tortured by China and go figure that no other country would want a bunch of people detained in a black hole of human rights for three years. Despite whatever these people may have been before they went in . . . who knows what they will be like when they come out.

While the US certainly has ugly sores from the past (annihilation of native Americans, several hundred years of slavery, invasion/annexation of Mexico, overthrowing foreign governments, arms dealer to any despot on our most favored list, systematic violation of civil rights of minorities) much of that is long behind us . . . aside from the American South and Diebold machines.

No country is perfect but the Bush Junta has made a concerted effort to do almost everything arse backwards. We invaded a country that did absolutely nothing to us, approaching 1/2 trillion in expenses, and killed tens of thousands . . . because their previous leader was a bad man?!

Gitmo is symptomatic of a general disregard for basic decency. You cannot extoll the virtures of human rights while trampling on them.

 

[Tom]

The "war on Terrorism" is a catchy slogan, but we've let our leaders convince us that our personal safety is more important than living up to our principals, which is not what leaders are supposed to do.

 

[chcarnage]

Wow... After reading the BBC article I've to say that the camp commander either is a liar or flat out paranoid. No matter if the victims were bad or innocent individuals - Did it ever come to his mind that the perspective to live in this hole for an open-ended period makes suicide a more acceptable alternative with each month that passes by?

Oh and they will treat the bodies with great respect... I bet they'll ask the relatives where to bury the corpses... not!

 

[piasabird]

In the recent past, people staged suicide to get guards to come to their cell so they could try to kill the guards. These are not nice people. They are in detention camps because they wanted to kill people.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
The "evidence" that these people have done anything is so flimsy that only a few have been accused of anything other than being an "enemy combatant" which means whatever the Bush junta wants on a given week.

(I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here a bit - so indulge me. )

Do we even know what this evidence is precisely? Without charges or a trial, I can't imagine any evidence introduced one way or another. Further, if they were truly low-level terrorist punks, why not simply imprison them and question/torture them locally in Iraq or Afghanistan? In other words, why transport them to Gitmo unless they were a high value capture of some kind?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
The "evidence" that these people have done anything is so flimsy that only a few have been accused of anything other than being an "enemy combatant" which means whatever the Bush junta wants on a given week.

(I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here a bit - so indulge me. )

Do we even know what this evidence is precisely? Without charges or a trial, I can't imagine any evidence introduced one way or another. Further, if they were truly low-level terrorist punks, why not simply imprison them and question/torture them locally in Iraq or Afghanistan? In other words, why transport them to Gitmo unless they were a high value capture of some kind?

and then the usual question, why not have the base in the US where it can be overseen by US laws

 

[Duckzilla]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
CNN

"Two Saudis and one Yemeni, each located in Camp 1, were found unresponsive and not breathing in their cells by guards," said a statement issued by Joint Task Force-Guantanamo.

"Medical teams responded quickly and all three detainees were provided immediate emergency medical treatment in attempts to revive them. The three detainees were pronounced dead by a physician after all lifesaving measures had been exhausted."

I guess it's good that we at least given them a human right-to-life.:roll:

"The remains of the deceased detainees are being treated with the utmost respect. A cultural adviser is assisting the Joint Task Force to ensure that the remains are handled in a culturally and religiously appropriate manner," the statement said.

A little respect (like maybe following basic principles of human rights) might have helped . . . before they were dead.

You cannot defend "liberty" by arbitrarily denying it to others. It really is a shame that merely 6 years of the Bush Regime was enough to erase our nation's well-deserved reputation as a beacon of human rights.

I need to do a Rattan color scale check on my skin. How about you? Do you shave?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
The "evidence" that these people have done anything is so flimsy that only a few have been accused of anything other than being an "enemy combatant" which means whatever the Bush junta wants on a given week.

(I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here a bit - so indulge me. )

Do we even know what this evidence is precisely? Without charges or a trial, I can't imagine any evidence introduced one way or another. Further, if they were truly low-level terrorist punks, why not simply imprison them and question/torture them locally in Iraq or Afghanistan? In other words, why transport them to Gitmo unless they were a high value capture of some kind?

and then the usual question, why not have the base in the US where it can be overseen by US laws

Because they need to torture, er I mean assertively interrogate the prisoners? Yes, Gitmo is a sort of legal no-man's land. Precisely my point, why go through all the trouble unless you think these prisoners are somehow high-value?

 

[Duckzilla]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
The "evidence" that these people have done anything is so flimsy that only a few have been accused of anything other than being an "enemy combatant" which means whatever the Bush junta wants on a given week.

(I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here a bit - so indulge me. )

Do we even know what this evidence is precisely? Without charges or a trial, I can't imagine any evidence introduced one way or another. Further, if they were truly low-level terrorist punks, why not simply imprison them and question/torture them locally in Iraq or Afghanistan? In other words, why transport them to Gitmo unless they were a high value capture of some kind?

and then the usual question, why not have the base in the US where it can be overseen by US laws

Because they need to torture, er I mean assertively interrogate the prisoners? Yes, Gitmo is a sort of legal no-man's land. Precisely my point, why go through all the trouble unless you think these prisoners are somehow high-value?

Type away, Guantanamo won't go away because YOU want it to.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Type away, Guantanamo won't go away because YOU want it to.

You're right - it will take a lot of Americans who are pissed off at the way things are going and what is being done in their name. More or less, that's already a majority of Americans based on poll numbers of the administration etc.

Still, it won't stop me from analyzing the situation and talking about it here and elsewhere.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Type away, Guantanamo won't go away because YOU want it to.

"March all you want, boy, segregation ain't going away because YOU want it to"

There are always fools who will defend injustice as long as it's not happening to them.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Or if they were mentally tortured, which led to suicide. Remember, mental torture is as bad, or even worse than physical torture.

lol

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Or if they were mentally tortured, which led to suicide. Remember, mental torture is as bad, or even worse than physical torture.

lol

whats funny about that?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Today's update is that one of the guys that committed suicide was going to be released . . . I guess he was such a vicious, dangerous terrorist that it was time to go home.

Seems he didn't know it b/c US authorities couldn't figure out where to send him so didn't tell him yet. They couldn't send him back to his home country due to torture and no other country wants to host people that have been denied their human rights for four years.