Human Nature

[Jaskalas]

Human Nature

In short, it is Religion. Not as they would glorify it… but the stark reality of what it is. Tribal, zealous, fantastical make believe devoid of logic, reason, or facts. These aspects do not just define how we have lived before, they still define what we are today. Down to our very cores.

Your Ego will deny it. But our actions speak louder than faint words of protest.

Ah, but it’s “them”. The “others”. Always them. Not you. Not your tribe. And you would be semi correct. The others are clearly problematic. They have all these horrific traits. In 2016 they nominated and then elevated a disease into the highest office. And they have such reviled and or failed policies. An evil to be smote and this land purged of them. Yours is the righteous, the just. The crusade. Because you are a crusader. Same now as you were back then.

You are still human and you know nothing. Not even what those words meant.

Modern communication has illustrated one point very clearly. Propaganda is not just real. It works. Against everyone, to some degree. It requires an opening. Like a firewall with an open port. But once that connection is made the virus is free to whittle down the walls of sanity and turn it into whatever the good shepherd wants you to believe.

Ah, but education will protect us from this.
Wrong. So very wrong.

What is the scientific method? Proof through experimentation. Demonstration. Reality becomes self-evident as you work the problem. Yet how many of us have personally conducted every experiment for every piece of knowledge known to man? You cannot, there is not enough time nor resources in the world for us to all partake in the discovery of truth. Not all for things we know as true.

Very safe bet no person here studied vaccine effectiveness. Someone else did, wrote about it, and you believed them. Ergo, truth and reality are not absolute in your mind. It is simply who you choose to associate with, based on how you identify with them. Those who oppose the reality we know, they simply placed their faith into other people, people who tell them a different truth.

It’s not about right or wrong. Truth or fiction. It is purely who you choose to believe.
THAT is what defines reality for us, and why there can be alt-facts in the first place.

This is where propaganda comes in, and I am not sure anything can protect us from the damage it causes. It tells people half-truths. It worms its way into our lives bypassing the firewall that is the scientific method. Because people ultimately just want to believe whatever makes them feel better. Even if it’s a complete fiction. Even if it’s a scary story of good VS evil. Almost always, we will be the heroes of our story. Because the story is fiction. By that, I mean you didn’t do the study. You simply went along with whoever’s story you liked best.

And that person… it could have been anyone.
It certainly was for “them”.

Does that make them evil? Or just human? Or… are humans simply evil? I would posit the human condition sows the seeds of evil actions. We tell our stories, we label villains. We clash because the “other” is doing something we must stop.

I mean, what room is there for a civil society amidst all this chaos, this confusion, this division? If education is a poor substitute for indoctrination, and people will cast aside the scientific method for fairytales, what chance does nonviolence have? We may find ourselves united for a time, but I also posit such bonds are temporary at best. Because new beliefs will pop up, new divisions sown. It may take a generation, two or three even. But inherently, basic reality cannot be agreed upon. Not by the public at large. Is it fake news, a fake election? A stolen election! Always, one way or another, it becomes a time to act. To smite that evil “other”.

The human condition makes us crusaders. And doggone it we will crusade!

It gets worse… because we are mere mortals, not digital, certainly not perfect. We take shortcuts to conserve energy. To think less. For example, labeling and stereotyping. Everyone not us (or me) is “them”. The “other”. If you don’t believe in my sky fairy EXACTLY the way I do… then you are lesser. If you don’t speak like me… “other”. If you don’t look like me… “other”. Racism has its roots in a deeper inherent bias. One that would afflict us even if everyone “else” was purged. Do you really think it would end if we all looked the same?

My point is, sadly, it does not end there. Because such things are part of the human condition. That’s just what we are, deep down. It’s what we do and the proof is right there throughout history. With no better example than how we’ve handled Religion. If only because it has the longest continuity. But it does not stop there, not even for atheists. They did not escape being human, they just placed their faith into something else. Bias is still present. Make believe is still present. It just shows itself as another story. Another idea in their head.

“But the modern era of enlightenment!”

Yeah, no… sorry bud. I see how fragile that is, and how it is collapsing all around us. Our civilization rose as people placed their faith in men of science. But faith can always be misplaced later, especially if it is not maintained. I believe we took it all for granted, our society, our education, our cohesion. Our ability to function and not be cavemen. Perhaps because we misunderstood humanity, and thus what was required to keep the peace. What was required to help us all think clearly in spite of ourselves.

We foolishly gave ourselves the freedom to be stupid and we ran with it. Abandoning science, not because science is wrong, but because we did not know how to keep a firm grasp on it. Because we overestimated ourselves. We thought knowledge would free us and help keep us free. Instead, it just let us tell more stories. Even if they were fictional and detrimental. (Hello Internet)

And now we cannot even trust each other to hold free and fair elections. It all comes back to your sky fairy being different than mine. Cause that sort of madness and bias is just how we roll.

Always has been.


TL;DR: We are still living in caves, swinging our clubs. Figuratively, physically, but rather literally when it comes to the mind. A fancy caveman is still just a caveman. Spooked by his own shadow, and full of genocide. Just look around if you need proof.

 

[alien42]

Thats the longest "both sides" BS rant I've ever seen.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I hear this argument from christians all the time, it boils down to science has been wrong before, therefore we can't trust science, and science will never be able to fully explain everything, therefore we shouldn't even try. The only solution is to turn to the bible which is the sole source of the ultimate truth.

Religion is poison and primary reason why United States is currently in decline.

 

[desy]

When Science is wrong it adapts, Religion doubles down

 

[nakedfrog]

That's a very two-dimensional portrait of a complex being with complex social structures.

 

[brycejones]

Human Nature

In short, it is Religion. Not as they would glorify it… but the stark reality of what it is. Tribal, zealous, fantastical make believe devoid of logic, reason, or facts. These aspects do not just define how we have lived before, they still define what we are today. Down to our very cores.

Your Ego will deny it. But our actions speak louder than faint words of protest.

Ah, but it’s “them”. The “others”. Always them. Not you. Not your tribe. And you would be semi correct. The others are clearly problematic. They have all these horrific traits. In 2016 they nominated and then elevated a disease into the highest office. And they have such reviled and or failed policies. An evil to be smote and this land purged of them. Yours is the righteous, the just. The crusade. Because you are a crusader. Same now as you were back then.

You are still human and you know nothing. Not even what those words meant.

Modern communication has illustrated one point very clearly. Propaganda is not just real. It works. Against everyone, to some degree. It requires an opening. Like a firewall with an open port. But once that connection is made the virus is free to whittle down the walls of sanity and turn it into whatever the good shepherd wants you to believe.

Ah, but education will protect us from this.
Wrong. So very wrong.

What is the scientific method? Proof through experimentation. Demonstration. Reality becomes self-evident as you work the problem. Yet how many of us have personally conducted every experiment for every piece of knowledge known to man? You cannot, there is not enough time nor resources in the world for us to all partake in the discovery of truth. Not all for things we know as true.

Very safe bet no person here studied vaccine effectiveness. Someone else did, wrote about it, and you believed them. Ergo, truth and reality are not absolute in your mind. It is simply who you choose to associate with, based on how you identify with them. Those who oppose the reality we know, they simply placed their faith into other people, people who tell them a different truth.

It’s not about right or wrong. Truth or fiction. It is purely who you choose to believe.
THAT is what defines reality for us, and why there can be alt-facts in the first place.

This is where propaganda comes in, and I am not sure anything can protect us from the damage it causes. It tells people half-truths. It worms its way into our lives bypassing the firewall that is the scientific method. Because people ultimately just want to believe whatever makes them feel better. Even if it’s a complete fiction. Even if it’s a scary story of good VS evil. Almost always, we will be the heroes of our story. Because the story is fiction. By that, I mean you didn’t do the study. You simply went along with whoever’s story you liked best.

And that person… it could have been anyone.
It certainly was for “them”.

Does that make them evil? Or just human? Or… are humans simply evil? I would posit the human condition sows the seeds of evil actions. We tell our stories, we label villains. We clash because the “other” is doing something we must stop.

I mean, what room is there for a civil society amidst all this chaos, this confusion, this division? If education is a poor substitute for indoctrination, and people will cast aside the scientific method for fairytales, what chance does nonviolence have? We may find ourselves united for a time, but I also posit such bonds are temporary at best. Because new beliefs will pop up, new divisions sown. It may take a generation, two or three even. But inherently, basic reality cannot be agreed upon. Not by the public at large. Is it fake news, a fake election? A stolen election! Always, one way or another, it becomes a time to act. To smite that evil “other”.

The human condition makes us crusaders. And doggone it we will crusade!

It gets worse… because we are mere mortals, not digital, certainly not perfect. We take shortcuts to conserve energy. To think less. For example, labeling and stereotyping. Everyone not us (or me) is “them”. The “other”. If you don’t believe in my sky fairy EXACTLY the way I do… then you are lesser. If you don’t speak like me… “other”. If you don’t look like me… “other”. Racism has its roots in a deeper inherent bias. One that would afflict us even if everyone “else” was purged. Do you really think it would end if we all looked the same?

My point is, sadly, it does not end there. Because such things are part of the human condition. That’s just what we are, deep down. It’s what we do and the proof is right there throughout history. With no better example than how we’ve handled Religion. If only because it has the longest continuity. But it does not stop there, not even for atheists. They did not escape being human, they just placed their faith into something else. Bias is still present. Make believe is still present. It just shows itself as another story. Another idea in their head.

“But the modern era of enlightenment!”

Yeah, no… sorry bud. I see how fragile that is, and how it is collapsing all around us. Our civilization rose as people placed their faith in men of science. But faith can always be misplaced later, especially if it is not maintained. I believe we took it all for granted, our society, our education, our cohesion. Our ability to function and not be cavemen. Perhaps because we misunderstood humanity, and thus what was required to keep the peace. What was required to help us all think clearly in spite of ourselves.

We foolishly gave ourselves the freedom to be stupid and we ran with it. Abandoning science, not because science is wrong, but because we did not know how to keep a firm grasp on it. Because we overestimated ourselves. We thought knowledge would free us and help keep us free. Instead, it just let us tell more stories. Even if they were fictional and detrimental. (Hello Internet)

And now we cannot even trust each other to hold free and fair elections. It all comes back to your sky fairy being different than mine. Cause that sort of madness and bias is just how we roll.

Always has been.


TL;DR: We are still living in caves, swinging our clubs. Figuratively, physically, but rather literally when it comes to the mind. A fancy caveman is still just a caveman. Spooked by his own shadow, and full of genocide. Just look around if you need proof.

lordy

 

[sandorski]

Sorry, but Science and other Intellectual focused Institutions are aware of many of our flaws and have active defences against them. Some other people like to interfere with these defences, because they are Personally/Corporately inconvenient.

 

[Moonbeam]

Human Nature ...................

Let's have a conversation if possible. I'm thinking, having just read your post, that behind the words are feelings, feelings that motivate you to want to express what you have said. I don't know if you would want to accommodate me in that thought, actually also a kind of feeling hunch, and ask yourself and reply with what you see or not. Personally, what I hear looks to me like sadness on the surface but beneath it deep anger. Typically people call such an experience as frustration, dissatisfaction with what appear to be facts one can't change. What do you think?

 

[pmv]

OMG Moonbeamism is infectious!

Trying to be charitable, maybe there is something in the point about the impossibility of personally determining the truth or falsity of all the specialised fields of knowledge that affect us in the interconnected world as it is now? So you are left with little choice but to make judgements about who you trust.

From climate science to vaccines or the "origin of the novel coronavirus" to the relation between gender and sex, there are all these topics where it's nearly-impossible for a mere mortal to directly verify the facts for themselves, yet society demands you pick a side and make a judgement.

Personally I confess I'm exasperated with being expected to know who is 'right' in the arguments over transsex issues. I don't know, I don't understand the topic at all (unlike climate science, where I feel I know enough to make my mind up). Just build a lot more public bathrooms for everyone and call people whatever title they want to be called by (that will solve 90% of the problem, it seems) and stop asking me to pick a side.

What is the scientific method? Proof through experimentation. Demonstration. Reality becomes self-evident as you work the problem. Yet how many of us have personally conducted every experiment for every piece of knowledge known to man? You cannot, there is not enough time nor resources in the world for us to all partake in the discovery of truth. Not all for things we know as true.

 

[fleshconsumed]

OMG Moonbeamism is infectious!

Trying to be charitable, maybe there is something in the point about the impossibility of personally determining the truth or falsity of all the specialised fields of knowledge that affect us in the interconnected world as it is now? So you are left with little choice but to make judgements about who you trust.

From climate science to vaccines or the "origin of the novel coronavirus" to the relation between gender and sex, there are all these topics where it's nearly-impossible for a mere mortal to directly verify the facts for themselves, yet society demands you pick a side and make a judgement.

Personally I confess I'm exasperated with being expected to know who is 'right' in the arguments over transsex issues. I don't know, I don't understand the topic at all (unlike climate science, where I feel I know enough to make my mind up). Just build a lot more public bathrooms for everyone and call people whatever title they want to be called by (that will solve 90% of the problem, it seems) and stop asking me to pick a side.

This argument is also not new and it is also a full of bullshit.

The very same people who say they cannot rely on science to determine the truth because they cannot possibly conduct every scientific experiment to verify results themselves also chose to blindly trust that the bible as the ultimate source of truth. The bible is a collection of random ancient writings written in Hebrew and Greek. These very same people never question the accuracy of translation, and they never question the authenticity of the ancient scrolls. They say you can't trust scientists because they may be wrong or they may be lying, but they blindly trust religious scholars telling them that the bible is an authentic text that is accurately describing what has happened more than 2000 years ago.

Even if I were to humor such mindset of not being able to trust anyone or anything, the only reasonable logical outcome would be to "live and let live", let everyone live out their lives according to what they believe as true (so long as everybody adheres to some basic principles such as don't kill, don't steal, etc). But that's not what's happening. Christians in this country are forcing social policies upon everyone based on a their own flawed interpretation of a translation of an ancient text that was written in a language that they do not understand, and that they have never themselves verified as authentic. They're actively hurting people based on nothing else than their belief that they're in the right, all while crying persecution.

Words cannot describe how mad this makes me feel.

As I said, religion is poison and will be the downfall of the United States.

 

[pmv]

This argument is also not new and it is also a full of bullshit.

The very same people who say they cannot rely on science to determine the truth because they cannot possibly conduct every scientific experiment to verify results themselves also chose to blindly trust that the bible as the ultimate source of truth. The bible is a collection of random ancient writings written in Hebrew and Greek. These very same people never question the accuracy of translation, and they never question the authenticity of the ancient scrolls. They say you can't trust scientists because they may be wrong or they may be lying, but they blindly trust religious scholars telling them that the bible is an authentic text that is accurately describing what has happened more than 2000 years ago.

Even if I were to humor such mindset of not being able to trust anyone, the only reasonable logical outcome would be to "live and let live". But that's not what's happening. Christians in this country are forcing social policies upon everyone based on a their own flawed interpretation of a translation of an ancient text that was written in a language that they do not understand, and that they have never themselves verified as authentic. They're actively hurting people based on nothing else than their belief that they're in the right, all while crying persecution.

Words cannot describe how mad this makes me feel.

As I said, religion is poison and will be the downfall of the United States.

Well I certainly don't trust the Bible as a source of knowledge. Never been a Christian - barely ever known any Christians, in fact (known a few Muslims in my life, but hardly any Christians).

I am not convinced, though, that "science" has any definitive answers about the relation between consciousness and internal experiences, and the material world, which is where the arguments about transsex ultimately seem to end up.
Plus, aside from that, in general the modern world seems to be unprecedented in the level of technical knowledge it demands of the populus in picking sides in political arguments.

 

[nakedfrog]

Well I certainly don't trust the Bible as a source of knowledge. Never been a Christian - barely ever known any Christians, in fact (known a few Muslims in my life, but hardly any Christians).

I am not convinced, though, that "science" has any definitive answers about the relation between consciousness and internal experiences, and the material world, which is where the arguments about transsex ultimately seem to end up.
Plus, aside from that, in general the modern world seems to be unprecedented in the level of technical knowledge it demands of the populus in picking sides in political arguments.

FYI, "transsex" is not the preferred nomenclature, transgender if you would, dude

 

[DaaQ]

I will trust Physics and Math.

You weigh how much? You move as (x) speed, you will impact with (z) force.
You do not mix copper and aluminum without anti corrosion.
Cooler CPU will generally run faster, to a point, based on the flaws and variances of the manufacturing.

The feather and bowling ball in a vacuum is a good experiment. (every mass has gravity, depending on it's amount of mass)

 

[pmv]

FYI, "transsex" is not the preferred nomenclature, transgender if you would, dude

Fair enough. Will bear that in mind in future. I find the whole topic confusing.

 

[Moonbeam]

OMG Moonbeamism is infectious!

Trying to be charitable, maybe there is something in the point about the impossibility of personally determining the truth or falsity of all the specialised fields of knowledge that affect us in the interconnected world as it is now? So you are left with little choice but to make judgements about who you trust.

From climate science to vaccines or the "origin of the novel coronavirus" to the relation between gender and sex, there are all these topics where it's nearly-impossible for a mere mortal to directly verify the facts for themselves, yet society demands you pick a side and make a judgement.

Personally I confess I'm exasperated with being expected to know who is 'right' in the arguments over transsex issues. I don't know, I don't understand the topic at all (unlike climate science, where I feel I know enough to make my mind up). Just build a lot more public bathrooms for everyone and call people whatever title they want to be called by (that will solve 90% of the problem, it seems) and stop asking me to pick a side.

Perhaps we can have a conversation also. I am struck by your statement that while facts are difficult to verify, society demands you pick a side and make a judgment. That seems to me to be predicated on some feelings you may have about being put upon by demands. Would you care, if so, to examine what those feelings might be. It seems to me to be related to feelings of frustration also. As you may know if you have paid attention to what I say, Our childhoods represented a time when we were forced by threat of loss of love to conform to the local norms of morality. We were told, I would suggest, that we are worthless if we stray from the proper path. Any thoughts?

 

[Moonbeam]

I will trust Physics and Math.

You weigh how much? You move as (x) speed, you will impact with (z) force.
You do not mix copper and aluminum without anti corrosion.
Cooler CPU will generally run faster, to a point, based on the flaws and variances of the manufacturing.

The feather and bowling ball in a vacuum is a good experiment. (every mass has gravity, depending on it's amount of mass)

I have never quite bought this idea because, even if beyond anybody's capacity to measure, the bowling ball certainly pulls the earth toward it more than the feather does. Like which would fall faster to earth, a feather or a black hole.

 

[DaaQ]

I have never quite bought this idea because, even if beyond anybody's capacity to measure, the bowling ball certainly pulls the earth toward it more than the feather does. Like which would fall faster to earth, a feather or a black hole.

The Earth's mass is greater than both the bowling ball and the feather, hence their mass will not effect one another. In a Vacuum, they will both be attracted to the Earth's mass equally. In the absence of friction.

Coefficient of friction, and coefficient of Gravity.

Edit: I just returned from a 4.5 hour call out to get 12 ppl's internet back on, and am on second drink, so forgive any mistakes in this particular post. Past my bedtime.

 

[DaaQ]

Just re

I have never quite bought this idea because, even if beyond anybody's capacity to measure, the bowling ball certainly pulls the earth toward it more than the feather does. Like which would fall faster to earth, a feather or a black hole.

just re read your post, the bowling ball does not have enough mass to pull the Earth nor does the feather. They are measurable, but the force applied is miniscule compared to Earth mass, or Blackhole mass.

 

[sportage]

(just a few fun facts)

This goes against everything the Q's believe.
They no longer believe in the bible, claiming the bible is missing the most important parts. Parts purposely left out and thus no longer any of it to be believed.

They also believe the holocaust never happened, and that Adolf Hitler was misjudged, and that Donald Trump will return not as president so much but as the messiah.
Oh, also, they are still waiting for JFK's appearance at Dealey Plaza.
Get your lawn chairs ready....

 

[ivwshane]

What you are really talking about is trust in our institutions. You no longer trust them which is why you are more susceptible to propaganda. Since you don’t trust the institutions that we’ve built and that’s been tested through time to be accurate, honest, and transparent, you rely on your feels to tell you what’s true. That’s where you fuck up and that’s when you become vulnerable to propaganda.

You can verify science yourself or trust those that have verified it themselves but if you don’t trust anyone or don’t bother verifying anything yourself then of course you’ll gravitate to that which seemingly needs no verification, you’ll accept whatever confirms your own suspicions. You’ll believe the propaganda that exploits that distrust.

The amazing thing about your rant is that you are aware of propaganda and how well it works and yet, still, you can’t see how you’ve been infected with it. You were awaken from the Republican economic brainwashing because you actually looked into what you were being fed and you saw with your own eyes how wrong it was and yet when it comes to other topics your default nature is to buy into propaganda. Why don’t you do the same things that opened your eyes to the propaganda around Republican economics?

You fight propaganda by creating trust in the institutions that rely on science and logic and that are transparent in their methods and findings and you create that trust by checking their work, by comparing it to observable reality and you do this consistently and constantly.

 

[Moonbeam]

What you are really talking about is trust in our institutions. You no longer trust them which is why you are more susceptible to propaganda…………..

You fight propaganda by creating trust in the institutions that rely on science and logic and that are transparent in their methods and findings and you create that trust by checking their work, by comparing it to observable reality and you do this consistently and constantly.

Isn’t he saying we can tell ourselves that but that reality says it isn’t who we are. It seems to me that what he is saying is that it isn’t institutions he does not trust but human nature so your appeal to trust is doomed to fail.

To me it is like to be or not to be, that is the question. I want to ask you both a different question. To be or not to be, fine fine fine, who thinks it is a question and why.

Seem to me there is another conscious experience that transcends dilemma, that refers to things like saying about the Alpha and Omega.

To crusade or give up, what is that all about? What do you feel?

 

[pmv]

What you are really talking about is trust in our institutions. You no longer trust them which is why you are more susceptible to propaganda. Since you don’t trust the institutions that we’ve built and that’s been tested through time to be accurate, honest, and transparent, you rely on your feels to tell you what’s true. That’s where you fuck up and that’s when you become vulnerable to propaganda.

You can verify science yourself or trust those that have verified it themselves but if you don’t trust anyone or don’t bother verifying anything yourself then of course you’ll gravitate to that which seemingly needs no verification, you’ll accept whatever confirms your own suspicions. You’ll believe the propaganda that exploits that distrust.

The amazing thing about your rant is that you are aware of propaganda and how well it works and yet, still, you can’t see how you’ve been infected with it. You were awaken from the Republican economic brainwashing because you actually looked into what you were being fed and you saw with your own eyes how wrong it was and yet when it comes to other topics your default nature is to buy into propaganda. Why don’t you do the same things that opened your eyes to the propaganda around Republican economics?

You fight propaganda by creating trust in the institutions that rely on science and logic and that are transparent in their methods and findings and you create that trust by checking their work, by comparing it to observable reality and you do this consistently and constantly.

But all of that requires resources. To "check their work" and "compare it to observable reality" requires a lot of resources - money, equipment, power, and education. And resources are not equally-distributed.

I do think this is all a bit more complicated than the picture you paint. Seems to me some people take an attitude to "science" that is carried over from Christianity. Rather than seeing it as imperfect, provisional, and incomplete, and highly subject to the biases due to uneven distribution of power and resources, some seem to look at it like a religion, with an infallible priesthood conveying perfect knowledge direct from God.

I don't know, it's not a fully-thought-through thought. I don't myself have the education or intellectual resources to follow this line of thought through. It's just the attitude my particular experiences have led me to, is all. Access to or control of data and education is itself a kind of weapon, that can be misused just like any other weapon.

And I'd question that "tested through time to be accurate, honest, and transparent". Which institutions are those, that have this perfect track record?

 

[sandorski]

But all of that requires resources. To "check their work" and "compare it to observable reality" requires a lot of resources - money, equipment, power, and education. And resources are not equally-distributed.

I do think this is all a bit more complicated than the picture you paint. Seems to me some people take an attitude to "science" that is carried over from Christianity. Rather than seeing it as imperfect, provisional, and incomplete, and highly subject to the biases due to uneven distribution of power and resources, some seem to look at it like a religion, with an infallible priesthood conveying perfect knowledge direct from God.

I don't know, it's not a fully-thought-through thought. I don't myself have the education or intellectual resources to follow this line of thought through. It's just the attitude my particular experiences have led me to, is all. Access to or control of data and education is itself a kind of weapon, that can be misused just like any other weapon.

And I'd question that "tested through time to be accurate, honest, and transparent". Which institutions are those, that have this perfect track record?

Science maintains our best understanding of the things it focuses on. This is just a fact, no religious thought process required.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I have never quite bought this idea because, even if beyond anybody's capacity to measure, the bowling ball certainly pulls the earth toward it more than the feather does. Like which would fall faster to earth, a feather or a black hole.

It's likely only an academic difference, if any. Like a miniscule fraction of the distance between a nucleus and electron. Also bear in mind, the moment either of those bowling balls or feathers makes contact with anything (hand, ground, etc) the force reacts, and is pushed away as much as the two were drawn together. Energy must leave the system for any long-term effect to matter.

 

[pmv]

Science maintains our best understanding of the things it focuses on. This is just a fact, no religious thought process required.

What do you mean by "science" though? How are you defining that? Where is this abstract pure "Science" that is unrelated to the actual people who practice and control it, and the institutions, embedded in a given social structure, through which it operates? Actual real-world science has a long history of getting things wrong, and not randomly, generally for reasons related to the distribution of power in a society.