Human Development Index: Is the UK on par with a Middle Eastern slave society?

[CanOWorms]

Apparently the 2010 Human Development Index was published recently. Usually one of the Canadians on the forums posts a thread about it, but Canada dropped to #8 and the US rose to #4, so I guess that the Canadian government didn't hold a press conference on the report like they usually do.

One interesting thing though is how almost all of the EU dropped several spots over the previous year. A few EU countries are even out of the Very High Development category and many more seem on the trend to dropping out. Given the economic collapse of several EU countries in the Very High Development category, it's likely that they will drop even more. Iceland dropped 14 spots.

Most interesting is that the UK is now ranked 26th, slightly ahead of the UAE's 32nd spot. The UK dropped 5 and the UAE increased by 3. It seems surprising that a Middle Eastern slave-based society is on the path to overtake the UK. Perhaps the strong class distinctions in the UK put it on par with the UAE?

1. Norway
2. Australia
3. New Zealand
4. United States
5. Ireland
6. Liechtenstein
7. Netherlands
8. Canada
9. Sweden
10. Germany
11. Japan
12. Korea (Republic of)
13. Switzerland
14. France
15. Israel
16. Finland
17. Iceland
18. Belgium
19. Denmark
20. Spain
21. Hong Kong, China (SAR)
22. Greece
23. Italy
24. Luxembourg
25. Austria
26. United Kingdom
27. Singapore
28. Czech Republic
29. Slovenia
30. Andorra
31. Slovakia
32. United Arab Emirates
33. Malta
34. Estonia
35. Cyprus
36. Hungary
37. Brunei Darussalam
38. Qatar
39. Bahrain
40. Portugal
41. Poland
42. Barbados

It seems like Europe is on track to becoming a third-world continent. A huge chunk of the EU seems to be on the verge of dropping out of the Developed category into the Developing category. It seems like they're going to be overtaken with Malaysia and Libya.

 

[Infohawk]

You sure have some funny Euro-hating lenses on...

This actually confirms that European countries are still many of the richest countries out there. It's no surprise that some rich oil states are up there too. They're lucky they're sitting on oil.

And you're always bitching about European immigration policies... well the UK probably has more immigrants than other European countries. How do you expect them to pay for the immigrants you want them to have? Those immigrants don't magically have high income jobs that pay for their childrens' education and government health care. So it's no surprise that the UK is ranked below other European countries.

 

[CanOWorms]

You sure have some funny Euro-hating lenses on...

This actually confirms that European countries are still many of the richest countries out there. It's no surprise that some rich oil states are up there too. They're lucky they're sitting on oil.

The point is the downward trend and how many of them appear to be dropping into what the UN HDI classifies as developing nation status. Europe seems to becoming the new third world.

And you're always bitching about European immigration policies... well the UK probably has more immigrants than other European countries. How do you expect them to pay for the immigrants you want them to have? Those immigrants don't magically have high income jobs that pay for their childrens' education and government health care. So it's no surprise that the UK is ranked below other European countries.

According to the last UK census, only 8.3% of the population is foreign-born. The UAE is much higher. The USA is also much higher and it's not even close to being ranked as a developing nation like the UK.

You also claim that the immigrant population would be suppressing the UK's rankings. I suggest otherwise - the foreign population increases the UK's rankings and without it it would perhaps be stuck in the developing nation category. The UK needs people who don't feel restricted by the stark class distinctions ingrained into society. People who don't feel that they're peasants won't accept ingrained social rules.

 

[Infohawk]

The point is the downward trend and how many of them appear to be dropping into what the UN HDI classifies as developing nation status. Europe seems to becoming the new third world.

Some developing countries are getting richer, that doesn't mean that Europe is getting poorer. See the difference?

 

[Zebo]

Wow Korea is pretty high! Pretty amazing considering where they were 30 yrs ago.

 

[Zebo]

As far as UK it's probably because of 3rd world colonization of UK dragging her down. Bring fundis and uneducated idiots in what do you expect? See from whence they came. Islam stunts economic development if you follow it to hard core degree. Same with any religion based on thousands of years ago. West has evolved so should you if you come.

 

[CanOWorms]

Some developing countries are getting richer, that doesn't mean that Europe is getting poorer. See the difference?

The HDI is not only about $. It's just a factor. European nations are increasingly floating towards third-world, developing nation status.

Do you think that Ireland, Greece, Portugal are going to fare better next year? I think there's a serious possibility that Greece and Portugal will be reclassified as developing nations.

 

[Infohawk]

The HDI is not only about $. It's just a factor. European nations are increasingly floating towards third-world, developing nation status.

Do you think that Ireland, Greece, Portugal are going to fare better next year? I think there's a serious possibility that Greece and Portugal will be reclassified as developing nations.

You can't just say European nations are increasingly floating towards third-world status without some argument to back it up. What we see here is countries like Korea getting richer. No surprise there. Doesn't mean Europe is getting poorer. And the HDI is pretty much about wealth. Wealth manifests itself in better educations and health care outcomes.

 

[Infohawk]

As far as UK it's probably because of 3rd world colonization of UK dragging her down. Bring fundis and uneducated idiots in what do you expect? See from whence they came.

Yep, you can't just import third world peasant mentalities and expect them to produce high incomes and modern art. In terms of third world factors I think the US has more to worry about. Don't we have more disparities of income than Europe? There have always been rich people in the third world. The US will continue to have them too. But half of the country will be peasant central Americans with at best a high school diploma and insufficient incomes to fund state universities or moon missions.

 

[CanOWorms]

You can't just say European nations are increasingly floating towards third-world status without some argument to back it up.

I am backing it up. Almost every single EU nation dropped several spots, with some, and many on the trend, of dropping out of Developed Nation category into the Developing Nation category as set by the HDI.

What we see here is countries like Korea getting richer. No surprise there. Doesn't mean Europe is getting poorer. And the HDI is pretty much about wealth. Wealth manifests itself in better educations and health care outcomes.

What we see is other countries getting much more developed while European countries seem to be stagnant and dropping into third-world developing nation status as designated by the HDI. They are not keeping up with the international standards for a developed nation.

Wealth is a large component of HDI, but there are obviously other factors. One can also argue that HDI is a silly metric. I'm sure there are other metrics that can have different results. However, the European psyche is closely tied to HDI rankings.

 

[Zebo]

The HDI is not only about $. It's just a factor. European nations are increasingly floating towards third-world, developing nation status.

Do you think that Ireland, Greece, Portugal are going to fare better next year? I think there's a serious possibility that Greece and Portugal will be reclassified as developing nations.

After the oil crash. Oil which makes world go around. France will be the place to be. In the middle ages they supported 4x it's current population on land alone. other areas not so much.

Ireland had 2x. Those areas are good for peasant farming

 

[Infohawk]

I am backing it up. Almost every single EU nation dropped several spots, with some, and many on the trend, of dropping out of Developed Nation category into the Developing Nation category as set by the HDI.

What we see is other countries getting much more developed while European countries seem to be stagnant and dropping into third-world developing nation status as designated by the HDI. They are not keeping up with the international standards for a developed nation.

Wealth is a large component of HDI, but there are obviously other factors. One can also argue that HDI is a silly metric. I'm sure there are other metrics that can have different results. However, the European psyche is closely tied to HDI rankings.

How can you say they've dropped by several spots when the European countries still make up the bulk of the top countries? If some have dropped they've been replaced by other European countries.

And even if they drop behind somewhere like Korea, that doesn't mean they're poorer or at third world level. Not sure why you can't understand that. I'm not sure what you're talking about as far as the European psyche being tied to HDI rankings. I think you're imagining things. Most people would look at this list and say, wow Europe is doing really well compared to the rest of the world.

 

[CanOWorms]

Wow Korea is pretty high! Pretty amazing considering where they were 30 yrs ago.

Yes, Hong Kong is doing pretty well too after removing the shackles of the UK. Now it's surpassed them.

 

[CanOWorms]

Yep, you can't just import third world peasant mentalities and expect them to produce high incomes and modern art. In terms of third world factors I think the US has more to worry about. Don't we have more disparities of income than Europe? There have always been rich people in the third world. The US will continue to have them too. But half of the country will be peasant central Americans with at best a high school diploma and insufficient incomes to fund state universities or moon missions.

If the UK already has a domestic-based peasant mentality then why would the importation of supposed peasant-minded people affect anything? It's just the status quo. Also, isn't that what they seek? People to integrate/assimilate. In the UK that would be the peasant mentality.

 

[Infohawk]

Yes, Hong Kong is doing pretty well too after removing the shackles of the UK. Now it's surpassed them.

You deranged person. Please go to this site:
http://hdr.undp.org/en/data/trends/
Now click Korea, UK, US, and Hong Kong and unclick everyone else.

You will see there is no downwards trend for ANY of these countries. What you see is Korea getting to European and American levels. Again, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EUROPE AND THE US ARE GETTING POORER. IT MEANS KOREA IS GETTING RICHER. (Are your math and logic skills really that bad?)

Hong Kong's upward trend has been going for a long time. So your nonsense about the shackles of the UK is again totally off-base.

 

[Infohawk]

If the UK already has a domestic-based peasant mentality then why would the importation of supposed peasant-minded people affect anything? It's just the status quo. Also, isn't that what they seek? People to integrate/assimilate. In the UK that would be the peasant mentality.

Englished had its industrial revolution first in the world. They are not peasants. Just like most developed countries, they have mostly service and IP workers.

 

[CanOWorms]

How can you say they've dropped by several spots when the European countries still make up the bulk of the top countries? If some have dropped they've been replaced by other European countries.

The top spots are increasingly being occupied by non-EU and non-European countries. Lots of Asian and Middle Eastern nations are jumping into the Developed nation status. And if you look at the top of the Developing Nation category you see many South American countries jumping up.

If this trend continues, European countries, especially the UK to Portugal, will join the developing nation classified countries.

And even if they drop behind somewhere like Korea, that doesn't mean they're poorer or at third world level. Not sure why you can't understand that.

The HDI classifies the top 42 nations as developed nations. Europe is stagnant and other countries develop. The concept of a developed nation doesn't stay stagnant. What we consider developed today is different than 1890.

I'm not sure what you're talking about as far as the European psyche being tied to HDI rankings.

The HDI is very important in European political circles. It's also very important to other countries like Canada.

I think you're imagining things. Most people would look at this list and say, wow Europe is doing really well compared to the rest of the world.

I think people will also notice that European countries are dropping quite significantly and challenges their conception of what is a developing nation. Some people have a world view stuck in the 1980s. The world doesn't look like it did in a 1980s era National Geographic issue.

 

[CanOWorms]

You deranged person. Please go to this site:
http://hdr.undp.org/en/data/trends/
Now click Korea, UK, US, and Hong Kong and unclick everyone else.

You will see there is no downwards trend for ANY of these countries.

That is the HDI value, not the ranking. You will also notice that other countries are on upward paths while the UK has been stagnant/declining. If everyone else is increasing and you stay the same then you are going to be falling behind what is considered the standard for developed nation. It's not that difficult to understand.

What you see is Korea getting to European and American levels.

Yes, but how long will you say that Korea is at European levels?

Again, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT EUROPE AND THE US ARE GETTING POORER. IT MEANS KOREA IS GETTING RICHER. (Are your math and logic skills really that bad?)

It's not about getting richer or poorer. It's about the standard which happens to be measuring nations against each other.

Hong Kong's upward trend has been going for a long time. So your nonsense about the shackles of the UK is again totally off-base.

It seems to be on the increase while at the time the UK left is when the UK started declining.

 

[CanOWorms]

Englished had its industrial revolution first in the world. They are not peasants. Just like most developed countries, they have mostly service and IP workers.

Of course they're peasants.

That was the 1800s. You think that helps them now? They are becoming a developing nation and them saying "Industrial revolution, happened here!" doesn't seem like it would change much.

Your post here is exactly what I'm talking about. You're stuck in time. You are promoting stagnation. It's what European culture has become and it's causing them to slide into developing nation, third-world status!

 

[WelshBloke]

The point is the downward trend and how many of them appear to be dropping into what the UN HDI classifies as developing nation status. Europe seems to becoming the new third world.

Cool, maybe we can stop giving the rest of the world lots of cash now.

Wow if we get developing status maybe they will give us some back. :sneaky:

 

[Infohawk]

The rankings are based on the HDI value, so that's what important. Look, you can see Korean growth tapering off. That's what happens in macroeconomics. You can't sustain huge growth for ever after you've developed to modern standards. The gains come slower along with new technology. The chart also shows US and UK HDI values still going up. That doesn't mean they're degenerating into third world levels. This is not US News and World Reports rankings. Just because someone is ranked higher than you by a small margin doesn't mean you are poor. As usual you are distorting very basic facts to support a theory that isn't backed up by anything.

The data supports what we've known for years. Europe and other developed nations are still the richest out there and continue to get slowly richer. Older Asian tigers have arrived and other Asian countries like China are catching up very quickly.

But you're going to believe what you want to believe regardless of the data.

 

[Infohawk]

Of course they're peasants.

That was the 1800s. You think that helps them now? They are becoming a developing nation and them saying "Industrial revolution, happened here!" doesn't seem like it would change much.

Your post here is exactly what I'm talking about. You're stuck in time. You are promoting stagnation. It's what European culture has become and it's causing them to slide into developing nation, third-world status!

The big problem with your theory is that there is no evidence Europe is getting poorer. Get back to me when the UK's 0.849 gets down to the Ivory Coast's 0.397. And even if in 50 years Ivory coast has a 0.9 doesn't mean the UK is like third world country.

Look, if you want to fantasize about Europeans being defeated by hordes of third worlders, just tell yourself that eventually other countries will be as rich or richer than Europe. I'm not disputing that. But that doesn't mean Europe will be like a modern-day third world nation.

 

[CanOWorms]

The rankings are based on the HDI value, so that's what important. Look, you can see Korean growth tapering off. That's what happens in macroeconomics. You can't sustain huge growth for ever after you've developed to modern standards. The gains come slower along with new technology. The chart also shows US and UK HDI values still going up. That doesn't mean they're degenerating into third world levels. This is not US News and World Reports rankings. Just because someone is ranked higher than you by a small margin doesn't mean you are poor. As usual you are distorting very basic facts to support a theory that isn't backed up by anything.

Stop making up data. The UK is on a clear decline since 2005 based on the data. They have almost declined to the 1995 data. The other nations are all increasing since the beginning. The UK has constantly been rather stagnant the whole while except for a sharp increase in the early-to-mid 90s.

The data supports what we've known for years. Europe and other developed nations are still the richest out there and continue to get slowly richer. Older Asian tigers have arrived and other Asian countries like China are catching up very quickly.

It shows that European nations are about to be classified as developing nations. They are on a clear path to being overtaken. They may retain the same or slightly increased HDI score as right now, but years from now that score will attain a ranking among developing nations rather than developed nations.

But you're going to believe what you want to believe regardless of the data.

That seems applicable to you.

 

[CanOWorms]

Cool, maybe we can stop giving the rest of the world lots of cash now.

Wow if we get developing status maybe they will give us some back. :sneaky:

It probably won't help you. The money will just be used to buy the Queen a new jewel!

 

[CanOWorms]

The big problem with your theory is that there is no evidence Europe is getting poorer. Get back to me when the UK's 0.849 gets down to the Ivory Coast's 0.397. And even if in 50 years Ivory coast has a 0.9 doesn't mean the UK is like third world country.

I'm not arguing whether they will be richer or poorer. I'm arguing that they will be classified as developing, third world nations. They will be poorer compared to other nations, but it is possible that their quality of life will be the same. But is qualify of life from 2000 in 2050 the same? No. The international standard will change.

Look, if you want to fantasize about Europeans being defeated by hordes of third worlders, just tell yourself that eventually other countries will be as rich or richer than Europe. I'm not disputing that. But that doesn't mean Europe will be like a modern-day third world nation.

You can fantasize about European nations maintaining their current standard of development, just say that that their standard of living will pale among the new international standard. I'm not disputing that. But that doesn't mean that many European nations are already developing nations and many of those that are deemed developed seem to be sliding into developing status.