Huh? I'm CPU limited?

[soccerballtux]

Bad FPS in Shattrath; trying to figure out what to do to fix.

http://img233.imageshack.us/im.../7274/frowntownoh9.jpg at 2.3Ghz

http://img162.imageshack.us/im.../741/frowntown2cq9.jpg at 1.8Ghz

Note 12.6/14.8 = .851
and 1.8/2.3 = .783

This is with my 6800GT at Ultra settings; took the screenshot at what looked to be the average framerate.

What are your recommendations?

I just thought 2.3Ghz (even with just 256KB cache skt 754) would be plenty. I guess the numbers don't lie...

I suppose the positive attitude would be since there's nothing I can do I might as well build a new computer.

I guess my last question would be: how CPU limited am I?

Hellfire gets to 85FPS sometimes on normal GPU speeds.

I don't know enough about the WoW engine and the difference between rendering/processing other players vs. simply rendering terrain like Hellfire to comment. Terokkar forest is ~25-35FPS if that helps.

I guess I'm just confused; I've seen other peoples' 6800GT's get much better framerates on seemingly similar processors.

Thanks for reading.

 

[myocardia]

A 6800 Ultra is faster than a 2.3 Ghz Sempron 3100, so it makes perfect sense that you'd be cpu-limited. I don't know what else to tell you, besides that the two are a pretty good match for each other, especially if the Sempron were running a few hundred Mhz faster.

 

[soccerballtux]

Well I'm definitely motherboard limited I've found; I can't push past 260 HTT speed no matter the RAM divider and stay stable. I guess I could look at a cheap 754 motherboard.

edit: but the cheapest are $50 at newegg; not worth it.

 

[Nathelion]

Well you're in luck, it's an awesome time to be upgrading!

 

[Denithor]

Fortunately it has gotten very cheap to get a lot of processing power.

Abit IP35-E + e2180 + 2x1GB DDR2 for $213 + ~$10 shipping - $20MIR = $203

This would be a great, highly overclockable replacement for your current gear and has an eye toward the future (motherboard ready for Penryn quad-core sometime next year). Your 6800GT/Ultra may give you better results with more cpu behind it, I know that WoW is actually rather processor intensive, especially in the crowded cities.

If it just won't push the frames adequately, look around and see if you can find a used 7600GT or x1900gt or higher level card on the cheap (should be fairly easy with everyone else selling off their old stuff for the new 8800GT). In a 2GHz C2D system the 7600GT can handle up to 1280x1024 smoothly and the x1900gt can go to 1600x1200 with no problems (with 2xAA and all eye candy turned up).

 

[soccerballtux]

Oh wow thanks for the recommendation! That looks like a solid upgrade. I'll definitely be looking into this more; thanks again.

Since I'm on AGP and running 1600x1200 I'll be upgrading the graphics card. So the x1900xt sounds good; would the games coming out now make use of editlolitslate:512MB? Or would the GPU not be able to keep up? I've kinda been outta the loop hardware wise lately.

My friend, however, is telling me to wait for the ATI/AMD 3850 coming out November sometime; only $150.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Since I'm on AGP and running 1600x1200 I'll be upgrading the graphics card. So the x1900xt sounds good; would the games coming out now make use of 256MB?

Games coming out these days make use of more than 512MB, at 1600x1200, if the in-game settings are very high.

My friend, however, is telling me to wait for the ATI/AMD 3850 coming out November sometime; only $150.

The 3850 will be considerably more expensive than $150, and the AGP version will be higher priced than the PCI-E version.

 

[soccerballtux]

Heh meant 512MB.

So a 256MB 3850 is no good; bummer.

Here's the $150 link (inquirer though :/ )
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/...ls-partners-focus-3850

Edit: thanks for all the help.

 

[myocardia]

Well, I don't know about any bastardized, lower performance 3850's. I should have said that the 3850XT will be more than $150. But like I said, no matter what the price on either, the AGP version will be more expensive, I can promise you that.

edit: If I remember correctly, the PCI-E 3850XT is supposed to be ~$199 (retail, not MSRP), and the 3870XT is supposed to be roughly the same price as the 8800GT's.

 

[Denithor]

For WoW and older games you don't need to worry so much about memory. I play WoW, FarCry, and Titan Quest at 16x12 with an x1900gt-256MB with no issues.

Your best bet for a video card is to get an x1950pro for about $120 or look for a used card in the FS forum. You can usually find an x1950xt for about $120-150 or an 8800gts for ~$180-200 (320MB easy in this range, 640MB usually $50 higher). While you won't be able to play Crysis at 1600x1200 high detail most everything else will be perfectly playable (and not even the 8800GTX cards can play Crysis properly so you aren't missing anything).

One thing to note: stepping up to a high end video card (even the x1950 series) will require a stronger powersupply than you probably have. This Thermaltake Purepower 500W unit should do the trick nicely and is only $35 after MIR.

 

[bfdd]

CPU limited and probably Ram limited there's a big difference in WoW going from 1gb of ram to 2gb of ram.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: bfdd
CPU limited and probably Ram limited there's a big difference in WoW going from 1gb of ram to 2gb of ram.

:thumbsup:

RAM is very important with WoW. I noticed quite a measurable increase in overall performance moving to 2 gigs. As others have posted, WoW is very cpu limited in highly populated cities like Shattrath. Shattrath and a few other place gives my X2 a good hit and my frames drop to an average of 35-45 depending on the part of Shatt I am in. I have all of the eye candy turned up on high and run at my native resolution of 1280x1024.

You might try turning off sync to vsync and see if this improves performance. I did this and I have notice no tearing in the game even when my frames are running over 100. The game play is much smoother without it.

 

[soccerballtux]

Thanks for the recommendations; it's not a RAM problem b/c if it were I wouldn't be able to instantaneously alt-tab into openoffice, wow, pidgin, and azureus like I can now with absolutely no lag.

Definitely appears to CPU.

Thanks for the help!

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: myocardia
A 6800 Ultra is faster than a 2.3 Ghz Sempron 3100, so it makes perfect sense that you'd be cpu-limited. I don't know what else to tell you, besides that the two are a pretty good match for each other, especially if the Sempron were running a few hundred Mhz faster.

A 6800 Ultra is not faster than a 2.3GHz Sempron at all. The GPU cannot do what a CPU does. You can't compare the two at all.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33

Originally posted by: myocardia
A 6800 Ultra is faster than a 2.3 Ghz Sempron 3100, so it makes perfect sense that you'd be cpu-limited. I don't know what else to tell you, besides that the two are a pretty good match for each other, especially if the Sempron were running a few hundred Mhz faster.

A 6800 Ultra is not faster than a 2.3GHz Sempron at all. The GPU cannot do what a CPU does. You can't compare the two at all.

Whoosh!

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: jonmcc33

Originally posted by: myocardia
A 6800 Ultra is faster than a 2.3 Ghz Sempron 3100, so it makes perfect sense that you'd be cpu-limited. I don't know what else to tell you, besides that the two are a pretty good match for each other, especially if the Sempron were running a few hundred Mhz faster.

A 6800 Ultra is not faster than a 2.3GHz Sempron at all. The GPU cannot do what a CPU does. You can't compare the two at all.

Whoosh!

Whoosh? I don't know what you mean other than to assume you think his statement went over my head. It's a framerate issue so the best thing you can do is go with the best AGP card that you can.

 

[soccerballtux]

Double whoosh!

It's everything to do with the CPU!

People getting 35fps in Shattrath when it's packed on my very same AGP 6800GT. If it were a GPU issue then overclocking it would have increased the framerate. NO INCREASE.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Double whoosh!

It's everything to do with the CPU!

People getting 35fps in Shattrath when it's packed on my very same AGP 6800GT. If it were a GPU issue then overclocking it would have increased the framerate. NO INCREASE.

:thumbsup:

I get the same frames with a overclocked (Factory) EVGA 7600 GT. My brother gets about 40 with his C2D E6850 and a EVGA 8800 GTS 320. We have identical monitors and run at the same settings in game. It has been known for some time that the frames in cities like Shat are cpu limited due to the high number of people in these areas and the massive amount of data required to process all of that information.

If this was a GPU issue, he would be getting a lot higher frames in that area using his hardware. The fact that his much faster system (Compared to mine.) only manages to squeeze in only 5 more frames is evidence that this is a CPU issue. My neighbor has a X2 4200 and a 8500 GT, yet manages to only get between 30 - 35 FPS on average there. When such a wide range of GPU's produce similar results it obviously is something else that is causing the issue.

As a note, there are areas in Shat that you can achieve greater frames. But in areas where the populous is visible, the frames drop dramatically.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33

Originally posted by: myocardia
A 6800 Ultra is faster than a 2.3 Ghz Sempron 3100, so it makes perfect sense that you'd be cpu-limited. I don't know what else to tell you, besides that the two are a pretty good match for each other, especially if the Sempron were running a few hundred Mhz faster.

A 6800 Ultra is not faster than a 2.3GHz Sempron at all. The GPU cannot do what a CPU does. You can't compare the two at all.

You're obviously not a gamer. See, some video games are almost CPU-bound, while others are almost GPU-bound. To expound on what soccerballtux was trying to say, in this same game, if you overclock your video card, your framerates should be higher, if it's a GPU-bound game, but they weren't. Your framerates would increase if you overclocked your CPU, though, since it's a CPU-bound game. That would be if you kept the same in-game settings, and had all other settings exactly the same.

 

[soccerballtux]

On another note,

2.3 has supposedly enabled multi-core support and WoW will actually be using the multiple cores. Anyone notice a FPS increase?

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Double whoosh!

It's everything to do with the CPU!

People getting 35fps in Shattrath when it's packed on my very same AGP 6800GT. If it were a GPU issue then overclocking it would have increased the framerate. NO INCREASE.

I guess not all people play at such low settings. Do you really think that 2FPS difference with a 500MHz overclock means that you are CPU limited? Go get a freakin' 7900GS and you'll see the difference.

Overclocking a 6800GT is very worthless. It gives you a higher 3DMark score but nothing you'll see. That's why I don't overclock my X1900XT. It's freakin' pointless to do so. I tried to be nice but your whoosh comments are quite rude.

Of course your CPU is a piece of crap but you need a better video card since it's a piece of crap too. WHOOSH!

 

[Quiksilver]

Jon, you should read all the comments before posting, mainly the 3rd and 2nd to last comments on the first page.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Double whoosh!

It's everything to do with the CPU!

People getting 35fps in Shattrath when it's packed on my very same AGP 6800GT. If it were a GPU issue then overclocking it would have increased the framerate. NO INCREASE.

I guess not all people play at such low settings. Do you really think that 2FPS difference with a 500MHz overclock means that you are CPU limited? Go get a freakin' 7900GS and you'll see the difference.

Overclocking a 6800GT is very worthless. It gives you a higher 3DMark score but nothing you'll see. That's why I don't overclock my X1900XT. It's freakin' pointless to do so. I tried to be nice but your whoosh comments are quite rude.

Of course your CPU is a piece of crap but you need a better video card since it's a piece of crap too. WHOOSH!

Well, there was a pretty big difference in overclocking from GT to Ultra speeds in both Farcry and Doom3/Prey/Quake4 (Doom 3 engine) for me. In GT speeds 1280x960 was solid all settings turned up. On GT speeds 1600x1200 all settings turned was quite laggy. Ultra speeds and it was as solid as 1280x960 on GT speeds.

 

[Denithor]

Have you tried overclocking your cpu at all? It could help with minimum fps.

You should have enough memory, 1.5GB is typically adequate. My buddy plays with a stock e6300/7600gt/1GB and it's all smooth.

I think you really just need more processor power. If you don't want to upgrade your whole system (as outlined above) perhaps you could just upgrade your cpu to the Athlon X2 4200+ available at Newegg for $66. OC this chip a bit (2.5GHz is a reasonable target) and you should see a major improvement in WoW.

EDIT:
I just downloaded WoW patch 2.3.0 and found this in the general comments section of the release notes:

The latest patch of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade shows a benefit on today's popular multicore processors like the Intel(r) Core(tm)2 Duo processor family. The enhanced patch has demonstrated higher frame rates by spreading the work across both processor cores.

Which just makes my comments above all the more applicable.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Denithor
Have you tried overclocking your cpu at all? It could help with minimum fps.

You should have enough memory, 1.5GB is typically adequate. My buddy plays with a stock e6300/7600gt/1GB and it's all smooth.

I think you really just need more processor power. If you don't want to upgrade your whole system (as outlined above) perhaps you could just upgrade your cpu to the Athlon X2 4200+ available at Newegg for $66. OC this chip a bit (2.5GHz is a reasonable target) and you should see a major improvement in WoW.

EDIT:
I just downloaded WoW patch 2.3.0 and found this in the general comments section of the release notes:

The latest patch of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade shows a benefit on today's popular multicore processors like the Intel(r) Core(tm)2 Duo processor family. The enhanced patch has demonstrated higher frame rates by spreading the work across both processor cores.

Which just makes my comments above all the more applicable.

He's got a Skt 754 Sempron, so that wouldn't work for him. Good idea though, for the people who own the AM2 Semprons; AMD never sold any Skt 939 Semprons at the retail level, only a few OEM to HP, it seems.