*Hugs first amendment* British police arrest men over burning korans

[shocksyde]

Wrong forum. Ban.

 

[SAWYER]

What about all the fanatics and radical clerics over these DEATH TO (INSERT GROUP/COUNTRY)!!! protests? Political correctness run amok

 

[IronWing]

We should just burn everybody and everything. Where's MAD when you need it?

 

[waggy]

As for the fine, I don't know much about it but in the OT thread for it the resident AT lawyers seem to think it doesn't hold water and wont go anywhere.

does that really matter? the guy is going to have to spend money to fight it. You don't think the next person that wants to do something the majority don't agree with is not going to think about it?

while they are not putting him in jail its still a form of censorship and just as bad.

 

[Analog]

Hug the first amendment all you want, but this is looked at as a hate crime:

EAST LANSING, Mich. (WXYZ) - A man suspected of burning a Quran outside an East Lansing mosque has turned himself in to police.
Police say the suspect surrendered voluntarily on Wednesday after he saw a $10,000 reward issued for his capture.
He is reportedly cooperating with police and the FBI and is under investigation for a possible hate crime.
It will be up to prosecutors to decide if any charges should be filed.
The burning happened on the 9th anniversary of 9/11 attacks. It came after a Florida pastor canceled a plan to burn copies of Quran outside his church on September 11.

 

[SAWYER]

Wow the thought police are out of control. Yes I think it's crappy and wouldn't do it, but people's feelings are not more important that people's freedom. The world can not bend over backwards far enough to appease these animals. people should be allowed to burn the Koran, Bible...any damn book. And as asinine as the attention whores at Westbro are they should be allowed to do what they do as well

 

[spidey07]

Unfortunately they don't know the meaning of the word, "mutual." Mutual respect would also have you respecting the viewpoint of those who burn the Koran. (As long as it's a reasonable protest)

Europe is kowtowing to intolerance in the name of tolerance.

Yep. Muslims are using political correctness against their enemy (the west) with great success. Don't let that shit happen here in America.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Polite speech doesn't need to be protected.

Burning religious literature should be a protected right in the US.

Hopefully what's happening in the UK doesn't happen here.

Burning a religious book is not polite speech. Just because others are intolerant doesn't mean we should be.

 

[Perknose]

Does burning the bible have the same penalty?

In England? Yes.

 

[Perknose]

/shrug

I just like to mess with people.

Real life troll? Got it. Fair's fair. Shoot me your Mom's phone number by pm. I just like to mess with people, too.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

Burning a religious book is not polite speech. Just because others are intolerant doesn't mean we should be.

Burning religious literature isn't polite speech. The 1st Ammendment isn't for polite speech as polite speech doesn't need protection.

 

[Amused]

Burning a religious book is not polite speech. Just because others are intolerant doesn't mean we should be.

The 1st Amendment doesn't say "polite speech."

Freedom of speech is measured by that speech which offends us most, not that speech which we agree or find "polite."

 

[JulesMaximus]

The 1st Amendment doesn't say "polite speech."

Freedom of speech is measured by that speech which offends us most, not that speech which we agree or find "polite."

I was responding specifically to something someone else posted.

I think burning religious texts borders on hate speech actually. It serves no purpose other than to incite hatred and violence.

 

[Ruptga]

My bad, thought you were attacking me.

I'll get over it

 

[Malak]

I have a hard time caring about this. As though the right to burn Korans is a freedom we should be proud to embrace...

Excellent point. Also, the reason they were arrested could technically be used against anyone in the US as well, first amendment doesn't protect you there.

 

[Amused]

I was responding specifically to something someone else posted.

I think burning religious texts borders on hate speech actually. It serves no purpose other than to incite hatred and violence.

Making "hate" speech illegal is about the most egregious violation of the first Amendment one can make. Why? Because then ANY protest or disagreement can be characterized as "hate" speech.

Hell, just look at the political disagreements in P&N. Nearly ALL of that is "hate speech" to someone.

If I hate you or anyting about you or hate your opinions, and want to express that, I should be free to do so and vice versa.

 

[Amused]

Excellent point. Also, the reason they were arrested could technically be used against anyone in the US as well, first amendment doesn't protect you there.

Bullshit.

In a series of cases arising out of civil rights demonstrations, the Supreme Court explicitly held that free expression cannot be limited “simply because it might offend a hostile mob.”

An alternative rule, would reward bad behavior creating what First Amendment experts call a “heckler’s veto.” Dunlap v. City of Chicago illustrates the extent of this principle. Officials had denied demonstrators a permit to march in a predominantly white area because every prior similar protest in the vicinity had resulted in violence. When they sued, the district court not only ordered the city to permit the parade, it also demanded officials provide policemen “in such numbers as … are required to afford adequate protection” to the marchers. When the violence officials feared materialized, the court allowed a suit against the city for providing insufficient police protection.

The argument that speech should be censored to prevent violence was rejected in the civil rights context and it should not be accepted now.

 

[Malak]

The argument that speech should be censored to prevent violence was rejected in the civil rights context and it should not be accepted now.

There has to date been offered no logical reason why. People fear being limited or abused, to the point of allowing themselves to be attacked and abused legally. It's ridiculous and makes no sense at all.

 

[KeithTalent]

I tried to care, but it didn't take.

KT

 

[JulesMaximus]

Making "hate" speech illegal is about the most egregious violation of the first Amendment one can make. Why? Because then ANY protest or disagreement can be characterized as "hate" speech.

Hell, just look at the political disagreements in P&N. Nearly ALL of that is "hate speech" to someone.

If I hate you or anyting about you or hate your opinions, and want to express that, I should be free to do so and vice versa.

Well, I'm not calling for a change to the constitution but I do not think we, as Americans, should be burning the Koran or any other religious text either. It is symbolic and it is nothing more than a bunch of self-righteous pricks saying fuck you to a whole group of people simply because they don't agree with them. In short, we're no better than the Islamic extremists we are trying to offend.

 

[Malak]

Making "hate" speech illegal is about the most egregious violation of the first Amendment one can make. Why? Because then ANY protest or disagreement can be characterized as "hate" speech.

Hell, just look at the political disagreements in P&N. Nearly ALL of that is "hate speech" to someone.

If I hate you or anyting about you or hate your opinions, and want to express that, I should be free to do so and vice versa.

"Hate" speech is actually usually defined as having a target being religious, racial, etc. Hating pokemon or republicans doesn't fall in this category.

 

[John P]

In the US burning/demonstrating/etc.. with intent to discriminate/intimidate is not protected by the 1st amendment.

Linky: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=01-1107

 

[Beev]

Real life troll? Got it. Fair's fair. Shoot me your Mom's phone number by pm. I just like to mess with people, too.

You want to troll her then find the information yourself. If you want to troll me then fine, do what you will. You have that right and I respect it.

 

[waggy]

Well, I'm not calling for a change to the constitution but I do not think we, as Americans, should be burning the Koran or any other religious text either. It is symbolic and it is nothing more than a bunch of self-righteous pricks saying fuck you to a whole group of people simply because they don't agree with them. In short, we're no better than the Islamic extremists we are trying to offend.

Should we? no i think its ignorant and tasteless thing to do. But i also don't think we should ban, limit, fine or jail people that want to.

I just shake my head and laugh at the idiots.

 

[BoomerD]

I have a hard time caring about this. As though the right to burn Korans is a freedom we should be proud to embrace...

Ah, but it IS a freedom that we should be proud to embrace. It's that whole pesky "Freedom of Speech" thing...While I think that burning a Koran, Bible, or US flag is disgusting, I wholeheartedly support the right to do so.


BTW, P&N is over yonder------------------------------------------------>