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Hugo Chavez is Dead

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Remobz said:
I agree that he was a horrible leader to his own people and I am no fan of his but at the same time he did many good things for Lesser developed countries (LDC).

He has helped MANY poor people and their country on a whole. From free oil to free medical care Venezuela has contributed a lot to the development of these Countries.

Yes, I know it is how the Communist like to win "hearts and minds" but tell that to all the poor people who are live today because of him. Just giving credit where credit is due.
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yeah he gave his oil money to foreign countries, while Venezuela is still a violent shithole, and caracas is the murder capital of the world and full of barrios.
What's the point of a "LDC" helping other LDCs? They should help themselves first.
 
This tread is ANTI-DEMOCRACY tread and most of american posters prove it:

Democracy, as in "american way" is:

MY WAY OR MY WAY....

People in other countries can NOT choose their way of life, handling their recourses...etc....
It has to be "american way" - give us all your oil for free...etc.,..,etc...

US becoming more and more a Fasicst State....

It's coming...that ONE DAY...americans will learn same thing, what germans learned in 1945....

Believe me, it's impossible to rewrite a History....

Those, who do know Histoty - most likely, will agree, those agorrant and ignorant will find out same way Germany and germans did in 1945....
 
Gintaras said:
This tread is ANTI-DEMOCRACY tread and most of american posters prove it:

Democracy, as in "american way" is:

MY WAY OR MY WAY....

People in other countries can NOT choose their way of life, handling their recourses...etc....
It has to be "american way" - give us all your oil for free...etc.,..,etc...

US becoming more and more a Fasicst State....

It's coming...that ONE DAY...americans will learn same thing, what germans learned in 1945....

Believe me, it's impossible to rewrite a History....

Those, who do know Histoty - most likely, will agree, those agorrant and ignorant will find out same way Germany and germans did in 1945....
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W..T...F are you prattling on about ?

If anyone is trying to "rewrite history" its dipshits like you trying to push the insecure-from-a-shit-country-so-lets-bash-USA agenda. Its SOO tired, and really no one gives a shit.

Chavez was an epic troll who tried to blame the US for every problem in his country.. US never fully took the bait, else things would have likely been worse for Venezuela.

to quote the article posted earlier:

It launched no trade embargo like the one against Cuba. It spewed no vitriol to match Chávez's steady stream of invective. It kept buying Venezuelan oil. It pretty much left the people of Venezuela to live with their democratically elected choice.
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Without an active U.S. foil, he could not exploit long-standing anti-American grievances.
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Sounds JUST LIKE "Germany 1945" to me.... Those who actually know the history AND context most likely will agree..... you're a moron
 
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Yreka said:
Chavez was an epic troll who tried to blame the US for every problem in his country.. US never fully took the bait, else things would have likely been worse for Venezuela.
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The funny thing is even though Chavez blamed/hated the US, his state owned oil company PDVSA purchased billions of dollars of equipment, parts, and services from American manufacturers and it continues today.
 
I don't know it's going to be true or not, but apparently, some Chavez's supporters want to reserve his body forever for public viewing. If so, his body is going to join a very elite few, such as Lenin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Il Sung.
 
I've never been too familiar with Chavez, but reading about him today I'm having a hard time understanding the hatred.

He seems to have made very positive changes to the Venezuelan constitution.

Although his political views were well to the left, and he embraced some questionable people, I'm not seeing how he was worse than the American-friendly alternative might be. These are leaders who take bribes etc. to allow exploitation of their resources by multinationals, probably most common in the developing world and never get much attention. I've seen these labeled "rentier" states as the governments are mostly funded by corporations bidding for rights to drill, mine, or build factories. As such they owe nothing to the people because the people are not the ones paying their bills.

He did many questionable things it seems in terms of abusing power, but most of what I read is pretty mild for a developing country. That isn't an excuse but I question why Chavez is supposed to be a particularly evil person.

If anyone can please point to what I'm missing I'd appreciate it. What I don't like most about him is that he took power in a coup, and I'd be curious to know how legitimate his subsequent elections would be.
 
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It has to do with him silencing all those who opposed him.

I personally have no problem with the US sending representatives to his funeral...he was a head of state and that is what you do when a head of state dies.
 
cybrsage said:
It has to do with him silencing all those who opposed him.

I personally have no problem with the US sending representatives to his funeral...he was a head of state and that is what you do when a head of state dies.
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I'm not seeing him do it to an extent further than 75% of countries in the world. He seemed to have had a fairly close election last time, so there must have been a healthy and vocal opposition.
 
Farang said:
I've never been too familiar with Chavez, but reading about him today I'm having a hard time understanding the hatred.

He seems to have made very positive changes to the Venezuelan constitution.

Although his political views were well to the left, and he embraced some questionable people, I'm not seeing how he was worse than the American-friendly alternative might be. These are leaders who take bribes etc. to allow exploitation of their resources by multinationals, probably most common in the developing world and never get much attention. I've seen these labeled "rentier" states as the governments are mostly funded by corporations bidding for rights to drill, mine, or build factories. As such they owe nothing to the people because the people are not the ones paying their bills.

He did many questionable things it seems in terms of abusing power, but most of what I read is pretty mild for a developing country. That isn't an excuse but I question why Chavez is supposed to be a particularly evil person.

If anyone can please point to what I'm missing I'd appreciate it. What I don't like most about him is that he took power in a coup, and I'd be curious to know how legitimate his subsequent elections would be.
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How do you feel about his family now being worth $2 Billion ? It's not like a couple of million bucks, or even $20 million bucks or even $100 million It's $2 Billion fucking bucks!
 
monovillage said:
How do you feel about his family now being worth $2 Billion ? It's not like a couple of million bucks, or even $20 million bucks or even $100 million It's $2 Billion fucking bucks!
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It's pretty typical. And given the cultural corruption in these places it is probably expected.
 
monovillage said:
How do you feel about his family now being worth $2 Billion ? It's not like a couple of million bucks, or even $20 million bucks or even $100 million It's $2 Billion fucking bucks!
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As Farang said, it's pretty typical. Look at Fernand Marcos, who the USA spent billions of dollars propping up to (allegedly) stop the domino effect in Southeast Asia. The Shah of Iran. Mubarak of Eygpt, also propped up and benefited enormously from USA funds. The leader of Afganistan and his entire corrupt family. Essentially every leader of South Vietnam when we were pursing that boongoogle.

Chavez was a fairly innocuous despot (especially as regards South America's record). You righties get all bent out of shape not because of his alleged corruption but because the things he said.

PS - I'm assuming arguendo your $2 billion figure is correct, I doubt there is any real verfication of this.
 
Thump553 said:
As Farang said, it's pretty typical. Look at Fernand Marcos, who the USA spent billions of dollars propping up to (allegedly) stop the domino effect in Southeast Asia. The Shah of Iran. Mubarak of Eygpt, also propped up and benefited enormously from USA funds. The leader of Afganistan and his entire corrupt family. Essentially every leader of South Vietnam when we were pursing that boongoogle.

Chavez was a fairly innocuous despot (especially as regards South America's record). You righties get all bent out of shape not because of his alleged corruption but because the things he said.

PS - I'm assuming arguendo your $2 billion figure is correct, I doubt there is any real verfication of this.
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I think I read $1-$2 billion. And I don't know what the definition of "family" is. It could be there was a lot of nepotism so many members of his family got high posts in government and business. IIRC it was him filtering oil money into his own pockets though.

Not trying to defend the guy but he doesn't come across as Saddam Hussein. He seemed like a sane individual with strong beliefs, who crossed lines when it came to influence and corruption but nothing beyond the ordinary workings of the society that he lives.

It seems the worst that can be said of him from an American point of view are his associations and determination to form a worldwide anti-American power coalition, which doesn't sit well with American exceptionalists.
 
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Farang said:
I'm not seeing him do it to an extent further than 75% of countries in the world. He seemed to have had a fairly close election last time, so there must have been a healthy and vocal opposition.
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He was not as bad as many leaders are, but he did shut down papers that did not support him.
 
cybrsage said:
He was not as bad as many leaders are, but he did shut down papers that did not support him.
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Yea I think there is enough of this type stuff where I'm not going to say I like the guy. But he seemed to make some good institutional changes that hopefully will outlast him
 
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