BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,003
- 126
If you're only getting 120 FPS in such an ancient game then there's a cap somewhere or a problem with your system.
Furthermore to suggest that Diablo 2, a seven year old game running at 800x600 is going to have problems on modern hardware because it's optimized for Glide is quite frankly ludicrous.
Really? It doesn't look like it. Have you run your system at stock speeds like I asked earlier?
Then why haven't you run your system at stock speeds yet? I have a 8800 GTS and I don't have any issues with the game.
I thought of some other things you could try let me know if you get anywhere with directdraw mode, and the msconfig thing.
- Jan 29, 2005
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Ok, BFG10K, I'll help you once more.
At this very page (Page 2), from the top of the page, look for the third post. The first two are from MrWizzard, and then third from me. That's the post where I clearly typed, and I quote "'ll post screen-shots to show you guys what I mean. And to answer a question asked earlier in the thread, yes I've tried with all stock frequencies, but no go.", and that little sentence is found above the word "EDIT" in bold. I hope it helps !
And, MrWizzard, I'll go try Direct Draw right now ... it's the only thing I haven't tried I think.
At this very page (Page 2), from the top of the page, look for the third post. The first two are from MrWizzard, and then third from me. That's the post where I clearly typed, and I quote "'ll post screen-shots to show you guys what I mean. And to answer a question asked earlier in the thread, yes I've tried with all stock frequencies, but no go.", and that little sentence is found above the word "EDIT" in bold. I hope it helps !
And, MrWizzard, I'll go try Direct Draw right now ... it's the only thing I haven't tried I think.
- Jan 29, 2005
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S'ok man.
Well, my conclusions on Direct Draw rendering ... it's erm ... well, technically it's fast, yes. In fact it's as fast as it ever was on my X1800XL. BUT ... but, it looks UGLY, the colors are kinda off, blend, almost like I went from 32-Bit to 16-Bit colors (not technically the case, but it simply kills the whole color vibrancy from D3D). Oh and not to mentioned that Perspective is grayed out and disabled, and I always played the game with it before on my X1800XL, and that was on D3D of course.
So, yes, playing on Direct Draw helps the case, but it makes the game look like ... well I won't say it, and the visual effect caused by the absence of Perspective is annoying on my eyes after a while. All I want is simple ... that my GeForce 8 plays a game released in 2000 faster or as fast as my previous GPU did, in D3D.
Well, my conclusions on Direct Draw rendering ... it's erm ... well, technically it's fast, yes. In fact it's as fast as it ever was on my X1800XL. BUT ... but, it looks UGLY, the colors are kinda off, blend, almost like I went from 32-Bit to 16-Bit colors (not technically the case, but it simply kills the whole color vibrancy from D3D). Oh and not to mentioned that Perspective is grayed out and disabled, and I always played the game with it before on my X1800XL, and that was on D3D of course.
So, yes, playing on Direct Draw helps the case, but it makes the game look like ... well I won't say it, and the visual effect caused by the absence of Perspective is annoying on my eyes after a while. All I want is simple ... that my GeForce 8 plays a game released in 2000 faster or as fast as my previous GPU did, in D3D.
Ok so direct draw works but I agree that it is ugly.
So you are sure you have tried the msconfig thing and restarted your computer with all the startup things disabled. You tried the game and it didn't work.
Did you also try starting your computer with also all the services disabled in MSCONFIG then try the game in d3d? I know you probably dont want to run your computer every day like that but just to see if any of those startup or services are causing it.
If you tried both of those and it still has the problem would you be willing to try a GLIDE wrapper? I use one sometimes, I tried a lot of them out before I found one that seems to work with most games. I could see if I can get D2 working with it 100% then let you know what settings I use and you could try it also.
LMK
So you are sure you have tried the msconfig thing and restarted your computer with all the startup things disabled. You tried the game and it didn't work.
Did you also try starting your computer with also all the services disabled in MSCONFIG then try the game in d3d? I know you probably dont want to run your computer every day like that but just to see if any of those startup or services are causing it.
If you tried both of those and it still has the problem would you be willing to try a GLIDE wrapper? I use one sometimes, I tried a lot of them out before I found one that seems to work with most games. I could see if I can get D2 working with it 100% then let you know what settings I use and you could try it also.
LMK
- Jan 29, 2005
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Yes MrWizzard I tried everything listed in your suggestions, except for the GLIDE wrapper ...
And pardon my ignorance but what is that ? Is it some kind of emulation software that simulates the presence of a Glide-based GPU on my system ? Well anyways, whatever it is, I'm certainly willing to try it, I'm willing to try anything to get that game working, I want to play it, and it's not my expensive new GPU that'll hold me back from playing it you can bet on it.
And pardon my ignorance but what is that ? Is it some kind of emulation software that simulates the presence of a Glide-based GPU on my system ? Well anyways, whatever it is, I'm certainly willing to try it, I'm willing to try anything to get that game working, I want to play it, and it's not my expensive new GPU that'll hold me back from playing it you can bet on it.
- Jan 29, 2005
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Ok ...
I tried the following Glide Wrapper: http://www.zeckensack.de/glide/
I installed it, and then I used the default settings for general purposes and for the pre-set stuff for Diablo II, I changed nothing. So, after I installed the Glide Wrapper, I ran the Video Test from the Diablo II directory. Then it detected three rendering methods, instead of the usual two. The third one was new to me, namely "3dfx", so I chose that one, and I tried it.
With that render, the game runs very similarly than with Direct Draw, and it has much better colors ... BUT (yes, another issue) ... the game eventually freezes and I have to press the Windows key, stop the process and reset my default Desktop gamma settings. It just freezes after 5 to 10 minutes of game-play. And I also noticed that there is still slow downs, unusual slow downs, just like in D3D, however they are less common, but still very noticeable when they occur.
At least, in the process of testing, I noticed something strange, and I'll try my best to describe it.
Under the Direct 3D render, when I start-up the game, and when I create a game on-line, I noticed that there is some sort of a "pause" before anything starts loading, with a strange white "rectangle" (very small, and placed vertically) on the top-left corner of the screen, it measures like two or three centimeters, maybe less. It appears before the game-loading process begins. You know when you're in the chat room and you see all the characters on the bottom of the screen that are present in the same channel than you ? Well, from there you can create a game or join one yourself ? Well, let's say I just create a game, then as soon as I press the "Create" button then the screen darkens a little (not completely black, just darker), then that strange white "rectangle" appears, and only then will the game start loading (with the doors opening loading scene).
There, I captured a screen shot of what I mean above, carefully look at the top-left corner, you see like a "missing" part of the picture, well, that's what I mean, it's the "rectangle" I'm talking about: http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7906/76286676iz8.png
I made the rectangle myself in Paint, because FRAPS did not capture the rectangle itself, but that's exactly how it looks right after I click on "Create", except with the rest of the picture a little darker.
Additionally, I can say that the "rectangle" and the "screen darkens" weren't present with my X1800XL under the D3D render.
I don't think I can describe it better. But why do I mention that ? Because I noticed that the rectangle is completely absent under the Direct Draw and 3dfx renders ! It's just not there at all. Also, under those mentioned renders, the screen does not darken before a game loads up, everything goes smooth and fast, just like it did with my X1800XL under Direct 3D. So I believe there is must be something wrong concerning the Direct 3D render. But the slow downs are also present under the two other renders, just a little less...
I don't know what to think anymore ...
I made 100% certain that all my other games and my synthetic benchmarks ran correctly, and they do ! All my games are super smooth, my GPU is providing me some performance that my X1800XL could never even dream of, so it certainly ain't the GPU itself. I also made sure that I am running the latest DirectX update, and I do, and to make sure of it I just re-installed it (latest one from Microsoft.com).
I ... I just don't get it. I can't get it, all of that is way beyond my comprehension capacities.
EDIT: I don't know if I mentioned this though, but I tried in Windowed Mode, under the Direct 3D render, and it plays super smooth, and it never slows down at all, just like it was with my X1800XL, there is no "rectangle", no darkening screen before the game loads, nothing like that, just pure speedness of execution and game-play bliss all over the place. But that's in Windowed Mode ... which is way too small, and it forces on the eyes after a while, I can't play like that, and things are so small that I can barely see my enemies especially in already dark areas like Durance of Hate in Act III.
So if it plays with unreal speeds under Windowed Mode, in D3D, and that it shows absolutely no problems at all, then it cannot be a drivers problem, can it ?
I tried the following Glide Wrapper: http://www.zeckensack.de/glide/
I installed it, and then I used the default settings for general purposes and for the pre-set stuff for Diablo II, I changed nothing. So, after I installed the Glide Wrapper, I ran the Video Test from the Diablo II directory. Then it detected three rendering methods, instead of the usual two. The third one was new to me, namely "3dfx", so I chose that one, and I tried it.
With that render, the game runs very similarly than with Direct Draw, and it has much better colors ... BUT (yes, another issue) ... the game eventually freezes and I have to press the Windows key, stop the process and reset my default Desktop gamma settings. It just freezes after 5 to 10 minutes of game-play. And I also noticed that there is still slow downs, unusual slow downs, just like in D3D, however they are less common, but still very noticeable when they occur.
At least, in the process of testing, I noticed something strange, and I'll try my best to describe it.
Under the Direct 3D render, when I start-up the game, and when I create a game on-line, I noticed that there is some sort of a "pause" before anything starts loading, with a strange white "rectangle" (very small, and placed vertically) on the top-left corner of the screen, it measures like two or three centimeters, maybe less. It appears before the game-loading process begins. You know when you're in the chat room and you see all the characters on the bottom of the screen that are present in the same channel than you ? Well, from there you can create a game or join one yourself ? Well, let's say I just create a game, then as soon as I press the "Create" button then the screen darkens a little (not completely black, just darker), then that strange white "rectangle" appears, and only then will the game start loading (with the doors opening loading scene).
There, I captured a screen shot of what I mean above, carefully look at the top-left corner, you see like a "missing" part of the picture, well, that's what I mean, it's the "rectangle" I'm talking about: http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7906/76286676iz8.png
I made the rectangle myself in Paint, because FRAPS did not capture the rectangle itself, but that's exactly how it looks right after I click on "Create", except with the rest of the picture a little darker.
Additionally, I can say that the "rectangle" and the "screen darkens" weren't present with my X1800XL under the D3D render.
I don't think I can describe it better. But why do I mention that ? Because I noticed that the rectangle is completely absent under the Direct Draw and 3dfx renders ! It's just not there at all. Also, under those mentioned renders, the screen does not darken before a game loads up, everything goes smooth and fast, just like it did with my X1800XL under Direct 3D. So I believe there is must be something wrong concerning the Direct 3D render. But the slow downs are also present under the two other renders, just a little less...
I don't know what to think anymore ...
I made 100% certain that all my other games and my synthetic benchmarks ran correctly, and they do ! All my games are super smooth, my GPU is providing me some performance that my X1800XL could never even dream of, so it certainly ain't the GPU itself. I also made sure that I am running the latest DirectX update, and I do, and to make sure of it I just re-installed it (latest one from Microsoft.com).
I ... I just don't get it. I can't get it, all of that is way beyond my comprehension capacities.
EDIT: I don't know if I mentioned this though, but I tried in Windowed Mode, under the Direct 3D render, and it plays super smooth, and it never slows down at all, just like it was with my X1800XL, there is no "rectangle", no darkening screen before the game loads, nothing like that, just pure speedness of execution and game-play bliss all over the place. But that's in Windowed Mode ... which is way too small, and it forces on the eyes after a while, I can't play like that, and things are so small that I can barely see my enemies especially in already dark areas like Durance of Hate in Act III.
So if it plays with unreal speeds under Windowed Mode, in D3D, and that it shows absolutely no problems at all, then it cannot be a drivers problem, can it ?
ok, let me try my glide wrapper for over 10 minutes, if mine is stable I will tell you which one I use so you can try it.
Also I dont know why I didn't ask this before but, have you tried a single player game and gotten the same slowdown? Non-lan or non-wan?
The rest of your post about the little square and darkness makes sence. Direct doesn't really use the GPU at all.
Also I dont know why I didn't ask this before but, have you tried a single player game and gotten the same slowdown? Non-lan or non-wan?
The rest of your post about the little square and darkness makes sence. Direct doesn't really use the GPU at all.
Ok, I just played it for 1/2 hour no problems at all. Try this one out, make sure you uninstall the old one.
Well actually looking at it it looks like you already tried it. But were you running the http://www.zeckensack.de/glide/archive/ the 084c from that site?
I went with the default settings for global and also put the max res at 1024x768.
LMK
Well actually looking at it it looks like you already tried it. But were you running the http://www.zeckensack.de/glide/archive/ the 084c from that site?
I went with the default settings for global and also put the max res at 1024x768.
LMK
- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,202
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I have an update on the subject though ...
I just finished installing Windows XP. A fresh, completely new install with a full format prior to it. I installed SP2, and just finished installing 80+ separate official SP2 updates from Microsoft.com.
There is still one thing that I haven't installed, and it's the latest DirectX 9.0c updates. I mean I do have the basic first DX 9.0c release which is included in my SP2 CD-Rom, but it ain't up-to-date as of the last one from Microsoft, namely the "June 2007" update. I will see if running the game under this basic fresh SP2 install will have any effects whatsoever.
Also of course I installed my Motherboard/Chipset drivers, the latest ones from NVIDIA.com (nForce 4 AMD series version 6.86), and my SoundBlaster Live drivers from my SB CD-Rom. Everything is ready. And lastly but not least, the GPU drivers, which is currently the 158.22 ForceWare from NVIDIA.com once more.
If all that doesn't work ... then I'll give a last try with your suggestions with the Glide Wrapper.
I also posted about all of this subject at the Battle.Net forums Technical Support section, and even there the technical support guy is quite overwhelmed by the situation. There might be two causes for the slow downs as I describe them ... 1) It comes from one of the separate DirectX 9.0c updates (the monthly or so updates for DX9 from Microsoft, like the latest one the "June 2007" update), or ... 2) A major flaw present in the ForceWare drivers under the GeForce 8 GPU's for 2D rendering (however that might not be the case since people in this very thread here reported that the game runs fine with their own GF8 and even with Beta drivers, so drivers could be out of the equation right away, unless it's possible that it conflicts with older Mobo drivers from the nForce 4 series, which I am using) ...
So anyway, I am installing Diablo II as I type this. When it's finished I'll go start it A.S.A.P., and I'll report back on how it plays (under the D3D render that is). See you soon ...
EDIT: Ok ... I am officially shocked, it's more than what my brain can take really. After a fresh Windows install I STILL am experiencing the exact same issue. And that's before installing any DX9 updates, and even after installing them.
I will try the Glide Wrapper with different settings, and if that still doesn't work I'll make sure to never buy any NVIDIA cards ever again. If my X1800XL could run it smooth and my 8800GTS can't ... well I don't get it, and now I have taken enough of my time, and made you guys loose enough of yours about all of this. A very simple solution is: Get over it, keep complaining in my head, and when R700 is released say bye-bye to NVIDIA forever, thanks.
I just finished installing Windows XP. A fresh, completely new install with a full format prior to it. I installed SP2, and just finished installing 80+ separate official SP2 updates from Microsoft.com.
There is still one thing that I haven't installed, and it's the latest DirectX 9.0c updates. I mean I do have the basic first DX 9.0c release which is included in my SP2 CD-Rom, but it ain't up-to-date as of the last one from Microsoft, namely the "June 2007" update. I will see if running the game under this basic fresh SP2 install will have any effects whatsoever.
Also of course I installed my Motherboard/Chipset drivers, the latest ones from NVIDIA.com (nForce 4 AMD series version 6.86), and my SoundBlaster Live drivers from my SB CD-Rom. Everything is ready. And lastly but not least, the GPU drivers, which is currently the 158.22 ForceWare from NVIDIA.com once more.
If all that doesn't work ... then I'll give a last try with your suggestions with the Glide Wrapper.
I also posted about all of this subject at the Battle.Net forums Technical Support section, and even there the technical support guy is quite overwhelmed by the situation. There might be two causes for the slow downs as I describe them ... 1) It comes from one of the separate DirectX 9.0c updates (the monthly or so updates for DX9 from Microsoft, like the latest one the "June 2007" update), or ... 2) A major flaw present in the ForceWare drivers under the GeForce 8 GPU's for 2D rendering (however that might not be the case since people in this very thread here reported that the game runs fine with their own GF8 and even with Beta drivers, so drivers could be out of the equation right away, unless it's possible that it conflicts with older Mobo drivers from the nForce 4 series, which I am using) ...
So anyway, I am installing Diablo II as I type this. When it's finished I'll go start it A.S.A.P., and I'll report back on how it plays (under the D3D render that is). See you soon ...
EDIT: Ok ... I am officially shocked, it's more than what my brain can take really. After a fresh Windows install I STILL am experiencing the exact same issue. And that's before installing any DX9 updates, and even after installing them.
I will try the Glide Wrapper with different settings, and if that still doesn't work I'll make sure to never buy any NVIDIA cards ever again. If my X1800XL could run it smooth and my 8800GTS can't ... well I don't get it, and now I have taken enough of my time, and made you guys loose enough of yours about all of this. A very simple solution is: Get over it, keep complaining in my head, and when R700 is released say bye-bye to NVIDIA forever, thanks.
Well, if it doesn't work thats too bad that your giving up on nvidia though.
You might have a faulty card.
I once had a processor that messed up only 1 game. Only one I went crazy trying to figure out what the problem was since every game worked but one. Not untill 2 years later when I changed my CPU did I realize it was my CPU that had a minor flaw. I had two of the exact same computers one the game worked on one it didn't so I know it was the CPU.
I wish I lived near you so I could test out some more stuff. If I were you I would actually go out and get the cheapest Nvidia card like a 6200TC or something and run the game under that. If it ran fine you would know for sure it was the 8800GTS. There must be some thing wrong with your system somewhere.
The only last thing I can think of is your OC. I have seen a lot of OC problems and there range from normal falures to strange things happening such as you are reporting but only when things are just right. So while the damadge might be done it may only show itself when your Nvidia card is in there.
I am running almost the same rig but I have no problem.
Good luck, I bet it's frusterating.
You might have a faulty card.
I once had a processor that messed up only 1 game. Only one I went crazy trying to figure out what the problem was since every game worked but one. Not untill 2 years later when I changed my CPU did I realize it was my CPU that had a minor flaw. I had two of the exact same computers one the game worked on one it didn't so I know it was the CPU.
I wish I lived near you so I could test out some more stuff. If I were you I would actually go out and get the cheapest Nvidia card like a 6200TC or something and run the game under that. If it ran fine you would know for sure it was the 8800GTS. There must be some thing wrong with your system somewhere.
The only last thing I can think of is your OC. I have seen a lot of OC problems and there range from normal falures to strange things happening such as you are reporting but only when things are just right. So while the damadge might be done it may only show itself when your Nvidia card is in there.
I am running almost the same rig but I have no problem.
Good luck, I bet it's frusterating.
- Jan 29, 2005
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It is extremely frustrating indeed.
Here's what I tried recently:
- Without V-Sync
- With V-Sync
- With RivaTuner's D3D Overrider along with V-Sync On to force Triple Buffering
- Without RivaTuner running
- Without NOD32 (my anti-virus) running
- With custom resolutions and refresh rates
- Reset my Monitor's settings to factory defaults
- With AMD X2 Dual-Core Hotfix and Without it
- With AMD's Dual-Core Optimizer and Without it
... and maybe some more that I am forgetting right now, and, no nothing from above and anything else I tried changed the performance at all, not even a full system format and OS re-install for God's sake, and as I said before, I tried with default hardware frequencies (default CPU at 2.2Ghz, default Memory at 400Mhz even with lowered CAS speed, and default GPU), and it doesn't change anything.
Here's what I tried recently:
- Without V-Sync
- With V-Sync
- With RivaTuner's D3D Overrider along with V-Sync On to force Triple Buffering
- Without RivaTuner running
- Without NOD32 (my anti-virus) running
- With custom resolutions and refresh rates
- Reset my Monitor's settings to factory defaults
- With AMD X2 Dual-Core Hotfix and Without it
- With AMD's Dual-Core Optimizer and Without it
... and maybe some more that I am forgetting right now, and, no nothing from above and anything else I tried changed the performance at all, not even a full system format and OS re-install for God's sake, and as I said before, I tried with default hardware frequencies (default CPU at 2.2Ghz, default Memory at 400Mhz even with lowered CAS speed, and default GPU), and it doesn't change anything.
- Jan 29, 2005
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UPDATE:
For the first time since I started this thread, I have a positive update !
Thanks to a user on the Battle.Net forums and his suggestions, I tried that Glide Wrapper, expressly written for Diablo II.
http://www.svenswrapper.de/english/wasist.html
And now guess what ? The game is playable !
Well, yes it does slow down a little to the 35+ FPS range every now and then, but that's pretty much about it, it never goes below that, and it now happens very rarely, as opposed to always. Finished are the slide shows at the Throne of Destruction by Baal's Minions, finished are the frustrating sudden lags at Travincal by the Council members, finished is the un-playable D2 ! And I must have played for four hours non-stop, it never crashed, never showed a mere sign of failure, it never froze, it never let me down for a second.
Now, enthusiasm aside, I believe that there must be something wrong somewhere concerning Direct 3D rendering and ForceWare drivers. I'd put my hands in fire that it concerns ForceWare drivers flaws and 2-D gaming for GeForce 8 cards. But, I know I must not dream in colors. Diablo II is what, 7 or 8 years-old now (well the engine at least, perhaps not the expansion pack itself), and I doubt that based on my mere "report" they (Blizzard) or NVIDIA would take the slightest look at it, even if the game is still played by tens of thousands of people daily.
Well guys, I guess that this case can be closed, the problem is pretty much solved. Well ... not, technically speaking it ain't "fixed", since I just went around it and used Glide, but Direct 3D is still "broken" for me.
'nyways guys, thanks a lot for your help, patience and support, it was and is still much appreciated.
For the first time since I started this thread, I have a positive update !
Thanks to a user on the Battle.Net forums and his suggestions, I tried that Glide Wrapper, expressly written for Diablo II.
http://www.svenswrapper.de/english/wasist.html
And now guess what ? The game is playable !
Well, yes it does slow down a little to the 35+ FPS range every now and then, but that's pretty much about it, it never goes below that, and it now happens very rarely, as opposed to always. Finished are the slide shows at the Throne of Destruction by Baal's Minions, finished are the frustrating sudden lags at Travincal by the Council members, finished is the un-playable D2 ! And I must have played for four hours non-stop, it never crashed, never showed a mere sign of failure, it never froze, it never let me down for a second.
Now, enthusiasm aside, I believe that there must be something wrong somewhere concerning Direct 3D rendering and ForceWare drivers. I'd put my hands in fire that it concerns ForceWare drivers flaws and 2-D gaming for GeForce 8 cards. But, I know I must not dream in colors. Diablo II is what, 7 or 8 years-old now (well the engine at least, perhaps not the expansion pack itself), and I doubt that based on my mere "report" they (Blizzard) or NVIDIA would take the slightest look at it, even if the game is still played by tens of thousands of people daily.
Well guys, I guess that this case can be closed, the problem is pretty much solved. Well ... not, technically speaking it ain't "fixed", since I just went around it and used Glide, but Direct 3D is still "broken" for me.
'nyways guys, thanks a lot for your help, patience and support, it was and is still much appreciated.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
A bug that only shows it'self sometimes because my 8800gts and 8800GTX play the game fine in d3d.....well good to hear it had a work around for you.
AllGamer
Senior member
- Apr 26, 2006
- 504
- 0
- 76
hey cool! Thanks guys, i didn't even know such a great game existed re: "titan quest"
now i'm having a great deal of fun all over again
I do miss the old diablo days, i still play it from time to time, but lost interest after Damn Blizzard deleted (i was inactive for 3 months ) my Kick Ass Amazon of lvl 98 with the best and rarest equipment you could even dream of having, most of which were no longer available any more after Blizzard "nerfted the items"
so since then i lost interest in play D2, but i still play it from time to time, just for the heck of seen 200+ FPS LOL and causing major damage in Hell killing Diablo with full effects and those Sorceres "lag" spells, it used to lag, way back then on the 3DFX cards / nvidia etc
now i'm having a great deal of fun all over again
I do miss the old diablo days, i still play it from time to time, but lost interest after Damn Blizzard deleted (i was inactive for 3 months ) my Kick Ass Amazon of lvl 98 with the best and rarest equipment you could even dream of having, most of which were no longer available any more after Blizzard "nerfted the items"
so since then i lost interest in play D2, but i still play it from time to time, just for the heck of seen 200+ FPS LOL
and causing major damage in Hell killing Diablo with full effects and those Sorceres "lag" spells, it used to lag, way back then on the 3DFX cards / nvidia etc TRENDING THREADS
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